Plotting the future: Club solvency investigation

[goatboy]

We all know Forest are enjoying success gained through hard work and long-term financial prudence. I'm pretty sure we aren't the only club but can't be arsed to find out for myself how many others are about. Reading the Guardian thing about Man United's fiscal imprudence has got me to thinking though...

1: How many clubs in the top two divisions are in a similarly comfortable position?

I'd imagine we need some sort of line drawn here, while we know Derby are on one side of it there are debates about clubs in a strong league position like Cardiff, with Palace and so on somewhere in-between.

2: How many clubs in the top two divisions are massively in hock, and would stand to be utterly f**ked if they lost a manager/key player(s) or simply had a big run of pissy form?

We know ManU and Liverpool are in such a position, but whither Bolton? Do they have debt? If they go down, will they be a club rich in parachute payments and player sale fees, able to rebuild and return to the Prem in reasonable time?

3: Accounting for the above, what would the top two divisions look like, and who might be doing well in them, given apparent potential for progress at each club as things stand?


Someone's bound to know about each club's finances.

 

[Rhods]

hmm to be fair, we are enjoying success due to a very rich owner bankrolling us.

 

[sebs]

2: How many clubs in the top two divisions are massively in hock, and would stand to be utterly f**ked if they lost a manager/key player(s) or simply had a big run of p**sy form?

We know ManU and Liverpool are in such a position, but whither Bolton? Do they have debt? If they go down, will they be a club rich in parachute payments and player sale fees, able to rebuild and return to the Prem in reasonable time?

this question is easy for the premiership.

everyone, except burnley, wolves and birmingham i would imagine. maybe hull.

actually chelsea might be alright.

 

[goatboy]

hmm to be fair, we are enjoying success due to a very rich owner bankrolling us.

Even so there's bankrolling and there's bankrolling. Forest are on the measured, patient side of that coin.

Hull might be suspect - Pearson was at Derby and look at them. I think they can't really afford to go down for a couple of reasons, not unconnected to the KC Stadium.

 

[sebs]

hull are in financial shit whether they stay up or not.

 

[donny]

Even so there's bankrolling and there's bankrolling. Forest are on the measured, patient side of that coin.

Hull might be suspect - Pearson was at Derby and look at them. I think they can't really afford to go down for a couple of reasons, not unconnected to the KC Stadium.

Hull are more than suspect. There is a common belief with some of the people I speak to in the game that their wage bill is the thing that will bring them down... Jimmy Bullard on 50k a week anyone?

 

[Flaggers]

Hull are more than suspect. There is a common belief with some of the people I speak to in the game that their wage bill is the thing that will bring them down... Jimmy Bullard on 50k a week anyone?

That's one hell of a hospital bill!

 

[donny]

[quote='Sir' Flagman ]
That's one hell of a hospital bill!
[/quote]

I'd guess so.

Theres a couple of others there on similar wages..

 

[sedgred]

hmm to be fair, we are enjoying success due to a very rich owner bankrolling us.

Whilst difficult to disagree, I would say we are fortunate to have a hard headed business man who happens to love Forest as the clubs owner.

The last thing he has done is bankrole the club blindfolded. He has squeezed inefficiency and wasteful practise's, he has trimmed down the overheads, he has hired people to ensure that his money is no longer and ever will be frittered away again. All this at the cost of 3 seasons amongst the dead men of Div 3.

The fans kept turning up in numbers through this dark period, ND waited until he was confident and only then has he seriously opened the purse strings. Admitted Forest are not operating at a profit and still require an input from ND, but the important fact is that Forest are operating within their own self-imposed budget.

 

[Eastwood Red]

Hull are more than suspect. There is a common belief with some of the people I speak to in the game that their wage bill is the thing that will bring them down... Jimmy Bullard on 50k a week anyone?

Maybe we should go in for him?

Joking aside Jimmy Bullard is someone I really would like to see sign for Forest if we go up

 

[sedgred]

Maybe we should go in for him?

Joking aside Jimmy Bullard is someone I really would like to see sign for Forest if we go up

That would denote a huge lack of ambition, what on earth has he ever done on a consistant basis ?.

 

[sebs]

if bullard were fully fit £50k a week would possibly be worth it, but you can see why he jumped to leave fulham.

 

[sedgred]

What, a run of the mill journeyman worth approx £2.4 million a year in wages alone............+ all various add on's, you are frightening me Sebs

 

[Erik]

Whilst difficult to disagree, I would say we are fortunate to have a hard headed business man who happens to love Forest as the clubs owner.

The last thing he has done is bankrole the club blindfolded. He has squeezed inefficiency and wasteful practise's, he has trimmed down the overheads, he has hired people to ensure that his money is no longer and ever will be frittered away again. All this at the cost of 3 seasons amongst the dead men of Div 3.

The fans kept turning up in numbers through this dark period, ND waited until he was confident and only then has he seriously opened the purse strings. Admitted Forest are not operating at a profit and still require an input from ND, but the important fact is that Forest are operating within their own self-imposed budget.

Totally agree. It was horrible at the time, but he stuck to his guns and maybe we're all about to reap the rewards of that.

However, if the last set of accounts is to be believed, he is still bankrolling us to the tune of (from memory I grant you) £5m a year. Given that this means we are (or were) still operating at a loss of £5m a year, I am not entirely sure how much we can critisise other clubs (apart from we did not take the easy way out). Southampton went into receivership last season and (again from memory) and their annual losses were slightly less than ours. There but for the grace of Doughty....

 

[sebs]

What, a run of the mill journeyman worth approx £2.4 million a year in wages alone............+ all various add on's, you are frightening me Sebs

well you can argue about how good he is, but he's clearly worth a lot to hull... he seemed to be doing pretty well with them before he got injured this season.

it's his injuries that are the problem, not the quality.

i worry about what geovanni is getting paid tobehonest

 

[Eastwood Red]

That would denote a huge lack of ambition, what on earth has he ever done on a consistant basis ?.

If we can get him to take a wage cut I don't see why not. If he can be kept fit he can be highly effective in the Premier League.

 

[RedMark]

Was it not announced about Xmas time a list of clubs who opperate at a profit Sheff utd where up there and for some reason I remember Scunthorpe being there too.

 

[donny]

well you can argue about how good he is, but he's clearly worth a lot to hull... he seemed to be doing pretty well with them before he got injured this season.

it's his injuries that are the problem, not the quality.

i worry about what geovanni is getting paid tobehonest

42k

 

[goatboy]

Was it not announced about Xmas time a list of clubs who opperate at a profit Sheff utd where up there and for some reason I remember Scunthorpe being there too.

Right, we need that list. Any vivid memories of where, anyone?

 

[sedgred]

The opinions regarding Bullard I have had with sebs tonight, has really shocked me. Now I am one eyed and that eye is Red and Forest only, I do not watch that many other games, because I get bored easily, but Bullard if memory serves me right, has played for Wigan ? Fulham and Hull. He has never caught my eye when I have watched MOTD, only when he scored a goal and imitated Phill Brown rocketing the players.

Since then he seems to have become the lovable jack the lad character. Yet he costs Hull over £2.4m a year in his current contract, yet has hardly set the game alight. Portsmouth, someone (apologies because I cannot credit them, cannot remember who ) linked a report where they are paying some wasted/unused player, was it £80,0000 per week over a four year contract , the cost of his contract + transfer fee is something in the region of £23 million........One player over four years, just think of those figures.

Premiership bound, ye Gods I do hope the acquisition panel, BD and ND have their wits about them

 

[PsychosLeftFoot]

Sedge it was a striker I think, read the sme story myself and it was indeed shocking. Utaka wasn't it? Although my memory isn't that great either.

 

[sedgred]

Sedge it was a striker I think, read the sme story myself and it was indeed shocking. Utaka wasn't it? Although my memory isn't that great either.

That's the one, thanks, makes Silenzi look like a bargin, just played a couple more game's though

 

[wearenottingham]

The opinions regarding Bullard I have had with sebs tonight, has really shocked me. Now I am one eyed and that eye is Red and Forest only, I do not watch that many other games, because I get bored easily, but Bullard if memory serves me right, has played for Wigan ? Fulham and Hull. He has never caught my eye when I have watched MOTD, only when he scored a goal and imitated Phill Brown rocketing the players.

Since then he seems to have become the lovable jack the lad character. Yet he costs Hull over £2.4m a year in his current contract, yet has hardly set the game alight. Portsmouth, someone (apologies because I cannot credit them, cannot remember who ) linked a report where they are paying some wasted/unused player, was it £80,0000 per week over a four year contract , the cost of his contract + transfer fee is something in the region of £23 million........One player over four years, just think of those figures.

Premiership bound, ye Gods I do hope the acquisition panel, BD and ND have their wits about them

Nar bullard is a very good player, would have been the value for money and his injuries might make to difference between hull staying up and going down.

 

[The Maniacal Megatron]

That would denote a huge lack of ambition, what on earth has he ever done on a consistant basis ?.

He's been pretty good at f***ing his knees up.

 

[Erik]

He's been pretty good at f**king his knees up.

We had John Thompson and colleagues who were pretty good at a f**king good knees up. :wub: