pleat vs davies
- Thread starter oz
- Start date
As far as I can see, we have a transfer structure in place so that we don't throw our money away and pay over odds for players as we have done in the past, and so far it seems to be working. Anderson came on the cheap, Camp came on the cheap, it's been good to see and reassuring, especially considering our financial troubles in the past.
However, this structure which includes Pleat, takes some power away from Davies who wants total control of transfers and the rest. He certainly seems to feel potential transfers have fallen through in the past due to the current system. Is he right to demand a change? It's a hard one. I want us to be prudent and sensible with our money, we must have learnt a lot from the Platt era. However Davies isn't David Platt, and Davies clearly feels the current system has prevented signings, perhaps in key areas such as defence which we all know could hold us back this season.
However, this structure which includes Pleat, takes some power away from Davies who wants total control of transfers and the rest. He certainly seems to feel potential transfers have fallen through in the past due to the current system. Is he right to demand a change? It's a hard one. I want us to be prudent and sensible with our money, we must have learnt a lot from the Platt era. However Davies isn't David Platt, and Davies clearly feels the current system has prevented signings, perhaps in key areas such as defence which we all know could hold us back this season.
Graham
Viv Anderson
Looks like Pleat is going to be getting a more hands on role at the club.
This situation is starting to concern me now.
Davies seems totally brassed off and who can blame him.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5508081,00.html
This situation is starting to concern me now.
Davies seems totally brassed off and who can blame him.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5508081,00.html
to be honest I feel davies is loseing it we have had his digs at the transfer panel early pre-season, then his outburst about the defenders, then his outburst on fans, then his bizzare outburst on tottal control of club and long contract and then another outburst at fans and now this. I hope to god he gets it together as everything was so possitive a few weeks back
Werwolfoflondon
A. Trialist
To my mind, that remark was some sort of convoluted attempt at irony on Billy's part.
It seems clear that Pleat has a major say in transfer dealings, and the apparent claim (by Mark Arthur to Billy) that he's parted company with ITV presumably means that he can now devote more time to his Forest responsibilities. At least that's how I read it.
It seems clear that Pleat has a major say in transfer dealings, and the apparent claim (by Mark Arthur to Billy) that he's parted company with ITV presumably means that he can now devote more time to his Forest responsibilities. At least that's how I read it.
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TheDude
Guest
Only got to look at newcastle and see how f**ked up things got when wise came in surely ND must know you have to let the manager do things his way as its his neck on the line.
weasel
Grenville Morris
nottmdude said:
Who's neck is on the line? Davies' neck is probably furthest from any line. If he fails he gets a lovely pay off and walks off into the sunset talking about his play off exploits with Preston and Derby.
It's us that are left with the players, wages, dressing room that remain and I for one am completely behind the idea of a sensible board (including a football expert from Nottingham) keeping one eye on the proceedings.
This is not a Dennis Wise situation. No manager is having any players forced on them whatsoever, which I agree is outrageous. It's simply the board ensuring the the expenditure is done in a way they agree with. Davis named Mills as a target, turns out this player wasn't available with the money we deemed acceptable.
I think that's perfectly fine, lets not forget this money is coming directly out of the chairman's bank account. If that's the way he chooses to bankroll the club, rather than simply hand Davies 10m quid and say knock yourself out, who are we to argue?
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TheDude
Guest
Well hearing that David Pleat is going to have more of a hands on role is something i do not want to hear but that might just be me then. Davies is the one that gets sacked if things don't go right while Pleat carrys on dong whatever it is that hes dong.
The transfer dealings at this club under the panel have by and large been a joke as far as I can see. This season we have finally brought in some quality yes, but we again have missed out on the main area we needed and that is defence. Don't get me wrong I am pleased with the signings that we have made. However, the amount of times over the last few seasons that we have unsettled players in the press to then offer peanuts claiming that we won't be held to ransom is ridiculous. Then they go for higher fees to other clubs proving that what clubs wanted wasn't unrealistic even if you were to consider it too much. If they can get that price then that is the price they should hold out for, it has nothing to do with holding to ransom. The time we were in with a ridiculous offer for the Luton skipper when they were in administration was the most remarkable, even the administrators turned it down flat. We still claimed that we weren't going to be held to ransom when really it was us that were trying to hold them to ransom under the threat of closure. Fair enough for us trying it on, but when it failed and he went to Wolves we just looked stupid.
I just can't see what Pleat offers us. Almost everything he says in the media makes me swear one way or the other and he hardly has a great track record of anything except kissing up to chairmen. Often as not this roles seem to be for a chairman's man for advice when the chairman doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't trust the manager. It always is going to cause friction as there is a guy whispering in the top man's ear that the manager can't debate with as he never hears what he says. I'm biased when it comes to Pleat, can't stand him and his idiotic comments and he says players names wrong in a way that must be on purpose.
I just can't see what Pleat offers us. Almost everything he says in the media makes me swear one way or the other and he hardly has a great track record of anything except kissing up to chairmen. Often as not this roles seem to be for a chairman's man for advice when the chairman doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't trust the manager. It always is going to cause friction as there is a guy whispering in the top man's ear that the manager can't debate with as he never hears what he says. I'm biased when it comes to Pleat, can't stand him and his idiotic comments and he says players names wrong in a way that must be on purpose.
Nigel Doughty once said a few years ago, something like "Never again will I have a Manager stood at my desk asking for £500k for a new player because we lost on Saturday".
David Pleat, like him or loathe him, is the Chairman's "checks-and-balances" response to his Manager. If the Manager comes to the Chairman asking for so-much for this player, then the Chairman has every right to refer to someone else with a football background to make sure that the player being suggested will bring something to the club, and is not over-valued.
Nigel Doughty, our Chairman (who basically owns the club) is not a "football" man - he's a Forest fan, like umpteen thousand others of us who turn up at the City Ground every other week.
Mark Arthur, our Chief Executive, is not a "football" man.
David Pleat is a "football" man - in effect, and to put it simply, he's the Chairmans' Insurance policy against another David Platt-esque debacle with wasting ridiculous amounts of money on the wrong players.
Whether Billy Davies likes this or not is irrelevant - he will have ben made fully aware of how the Chairman runs *his* club, before he joined us.
Yes, Billy might want "full control" over transfers, and his bemusement regarding the three defenders he identified (none of whom joined us) seems to be him saying that he picked the players, but the "Transfer committee" somehow failed to sign them - not taking in to account whether the player wanted to come to us, or not (and if one of the three was Daniel Fox, would he turn down Celtic and the Champions League to come to Forest? that they wont be in the Champions League much longer is irrelevant!)
Nigel Doughty did not become as successful in the business world as he has by throwing his money around like a Sailor on shore-leave. He is cautious with the cash he gives the club, and will invest, when he is convinced that the player concerned is worth the money requested - again, David Pleat is part of this process.
I can't help feeling that Pleat, the Transfer panel and possibly the Chairman would be getting far less stick right now if we'd signed just one Centre Back, in addition to Joel Lynch!
David Pleat, like him or loathe him, is the Chairman's "checks-and-balances" response to his Manager. If the Manager comes to the Chairman asking for so-much for this player, then the Chairman has every right to refer to someone else with a football background to make sure that the player being suggested will bring something to the club, and is not over-valued.
Nigel Doughty, our Chairman (who basically owns the club) is not a "football" man - he's a Forest fan, like umpteen thousand others of us who turn up at the City Ground every other week.
Mark Arthur, our Chief Executive, is not a "football" man.
David Pleat is a "football" man - in effect, and to put it simply, he's the Chairmans' Insurance policy against another David Platt-esque debacle with wasting ridiculous amounts of money on the wrong players.
Whether Billy Davies likes this or not is irrelevant - he will have ben made fully aware of how the Chairman runs *his* club, before he joined us.
Yes, Billy might want "full control" over transfers, and his bemusement regarding the three defenders he identified (none of whom joined us) seems to be him saying that he picked the players, but the "Transfer committee" somehow failed to sign them - not taking in to account whether the player wanted to come to us, or not (and if one of the three was Daniel Fox, would he turn down Celtic and the Champions League to come to Forest? that they wont be in the Champions League much longer is irrelevant!)
Nigel Doughty did not become as successful in the business world as he has by throwing his money around like a Sailor on shore-leave. He is cautious with the cash he gives the club, and will invest, when he is convinced that the player concerned is worth the money requested - again, David Pleat is part of this process.
I can't help feeling that Pleat, the Transfer panel and possibly the Chairman would be getting far less stick right now if we'd signed just one Centre Back, in addition to Joel Lynch!
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TheDude
Guest
Could ND just not set a transfer & wage budget that he knows he can afford and the manager can like it or lump it or is that just a stupid idea.
nottmdude said:
No, it's a fine idea - however our Chairman, by his own admission, if a Manager came to him, wouldn't know a good player from a bad one.
The current set-up we have stems from the David Platt "era" when Platt was given something like £12m to spend, and blew the bulk of it on three not-very-good italians. That contributed to the financial mess the club ended up in resulting in us having to sell Jermaine Jenas to balance the books (or to stave off administration, depending on who you listen to!)
Because he did not want this to happen again (if you like, to protect the club from over-zealous Managers) the Chairman set up the "Transfer Panel" we now have.
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TheDude
Guest
Would like to think ND could trust Billy to not do what David T**t did and let him have full control but suppose after what has happend in the past can't blame him for being cautious over transfers. But something just makes me dislike Pleat and i'm sure i'm not alone.
Yeah Doughty owns us. Yes he can do what he likes, but we don't have to like what he does. Chriscl pretty much has the same view about why the position is there just not what that means. We are partially the ones that pay the interest back to the chairman for the loans he gives the club so we don't just have to accept it. This is no reaction to anything it is just a cold response to a repeating history and the same as three or six or twelve months ago. If what he is doing with Pleat and the transfer panel is failing in the usual way then we have the right to complain and it is as far a defenders go. I don't trust Pleat and I think that there is a history of failure there. Him calling Alan Shearer Alaine She-rar or Michael Duberry Mikel de Berray is just the icing on the cake lol. Get somebody else in if he needs somebody, but there will still be tension. If he doesn't trust the manager then he should get another manager is my personal view. He can have advisers, but the manager should be having the major say. The situation where the good signings are the transfer panel and the bad signings/results are down to the manager is an unrealistic working environment.
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TheDude
Guest
Gary B said:
100% Agree and
at Alaine She-rar & Mikel de Berray
Johnny Bravo
Jack Armstrong
If Billy was 100% in charge of transfers I imagine we'd have the same players but all the funds would have been spent. He's not been held back on transfers those that we have missed out on have good to other clubs for reasons we don't know it could be money, facilities, promotion prospects, location... Pretty much anything. Billy is a good manager but I'd rather someone looked over him in regards to transfers after gems such as Claude Davies for £3m on big wages.
Johnny Bravo
Jack Armstrong
Shouldn't be a manager? Plenty of top managers haven't been good with transfers. Anyway most managers now are more "head coaches" who say who they would like and the board go do the business. Billy identified the defensive targets and they went elsewhere, whats to suggest that they'd have signed if he'd been 100% in control of transfers? Oh, that'd be nothing.
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TheDude
Guest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrgeuG83iRs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UctQOy4KmKw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trFLjUY5A9c
David Pleat the " football man "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UctQOy4KmKw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trFLjUY5A9c
David Pleat the " football man "Johnny Bravo said:
I don't think they are you know, not to that degree. The board of course has to be involved, but if you are saying that an advisor is trusted with his opinion of a player's value, and how much our club should chase a player if we really need them, more than the manager, then the manager should be sacked. Not give up his profession but go somewhere that his opinion is trusted.
Some players will want to go to certain places more than others and there is no way we can talk about individuals but we have a history of not putting in acceptable offers for players that we really need and claiming that we won't be held to ransom. If BD was more in charge then I believe that we would have a centre-half at least by now but neither you or I can say for sure either way, however history suggests a pattern.
garrilla
Viv Anderson
chriscl said:
good post
chriscl said:
Great post, I think the real question is why were only 3 defensive targets outlined in the summer, that is some shortlist and as so many managers suggest they are always looking to improve the squad why does (in Billy's words) due diligence of players take so long? A little more foresight about the possibility of not landing any of the said 3 defenders should have occurred to Billy long before now.
Don't get me wrong I find the panel as annoying as the next man but I understand why its there any one with half a brain can see the difference it has made to the quality of player that is now coming through and teams are slowly getting the point that we won't pay over the odds for mediocre players. Frustrating at times yes but the benefits long term are unquestionable. I don't think it needs scrapping but tweaking in respect to emergency situations like we find ourselves in now, it doesn't surprise me that Billy is venting his spleen and I'm sure we'll see someone in soon
D
Daniel
Guest
I will imagine Pleat taking over MArthurs roll in dealing with the contracts and getting the players signed. LEaving MArthur to f*** up something else other than transfers. 
B
Bridgfordred79
Guest
The transer panel is a magnificent idea.
Good players at even better prices.
Good players at even better prices.