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Our Central Defence (Morgan)

Hoax

Hoax

Grenville Morris
Why is our defence so appallingly bad this season?

Why does Morgan persist to give away freekicks in positions where we cant defend them, why does he persist to shove into the back of players when he knows they are going to go down and play for a free kick. His high foot against Barnsley is one that stands out for me, as a central defender myself I know you have to f***ing be careful these days with your shoving etc. It is obvious that Wilson was the one last season but he is all but sold now.

I havent got too much bad to say about Chambers though to be fair as he is someone who is ever improving but his unwillingness to go forward is very frustrating. Lee Camp seems to be our playmaker this season according to Morgan and Chambers.

Once Wilson goes, and lets admit it its inevitable now what are we going to do? Were certainly not going to buy anyone and what we have simply isnt good enough for our aspirations.

As you can see I think Morgan is shit but I dont want this to be a "ooo dont slag morgan off he is amazing" thread. Am I being blind? what does Morgan offer?
 
chambers diving header vs coventry was superb though :D
 
Yeah, I don't think Wes has been as good as last season so far. Last season him and Wilson were one of, if not the best, centre back partnership in the league.

It seems to me as if Wes has been a bit slow to start this season, and with the injuries Wilson has had, it's allowed Chambo to come in and stake a claim. Now don't get me wrong, he has been alright but we still haven't sorted out our problem with conceding from balls into the box. Personally I'd have Wilson back in at the side of Wes to try and re-form that incredible partnership they had last season.

I think Wilson would solve your problem of the ball not going forward from the back enough times too. Wilson is by far our most technically gifted centre back and he is more willing to bring it forward from the back instead of hoofing it up, or passing it back to Camp to hoof it up.
 
ozzyadams said:
Who said Wilson is going??? I dont think he will...
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No reason to as far as I can tell. I just thought Chambo was keeping him out ...
 
Chambers has been playing well, and is a decent Centre Back, although he's not as good in the air as maybe Wilson is?

There were rumours of interest in Wilson from Celtic, and it's known he is in the last year of his contract, and - so far - there's been no talk of an extension to the contract; this of course leads you to put two-and-two together and assume he may be off in January, and that Billy has been playing Chambers to get him game time.

Of course, we may be putting two-and-two together and getting seven, in which case it's just that Billy currently prefers Luke Chambers as a partner to Wes?
 
Morgan came into the side alongside Olaf the Viking Hjelde. Hjelde taught Morgan all he learned at wrestling and cuddling school. Wes doesn't have Wilsons pace, Bertrands or Gunters guile so has to rely on his size and strength.

I think its difficult to pick two stars out of Wilson, Morgan and Chambers. Maybe Chambers cos he can fill in at full back. Gunter and Bertrand are class acts at full back at this level.
 
If 'Morgan is shit' then all our squad are all various degrees of 'shit'. Morgan last season was very close to being voted player of the season. It is however true his form has not been at the same level, it could well be that his pairing with Wilson is the right balance. If not then it must be seen as a genuine dip in form, not unlike Blackstock and to some extent Mc Kenna and Anderson to name a few!
 
george lyall said:
If 'Morgan is shit' then all our squad are all various degrees of 'shit'. Morgan last season was very close to being voted player of the season. It is however true his form has not been at the same level, it could well be that his pairing with Wilson is the right balance. If not then it must be seen as a genuine dip in form, not unlike Blackstock and to some extent Mc Kenna and Anderson to name a few!
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Good point; I did vote for Wes for Player of the Season last year.

He;s certainly not - yet - hit the form of last season, but as you say, there's more than just him in that category. Call it a playoff hangover or general malaise or whatever, Wes isn't alone in not playing as well as he did last season.

Thing is though, we know he *can* play better!
 
george lyall said:
If 'Morgan is shit' then all our squad are all various degrees of 'shit'. Morgan last season was very close to being voted player of the season. It is however true his form has not been at the same level, it could well be that his pairing with Wilson is the right balance. If not then it must be seen as a genuine dip in form, not unlike Blackstock and to some extent Mc Kenna and Anderson to name a few!
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It's not just about the pairing. Our defence has been shaky with both Wils & Wes playing too. They're all a bit under par - including Camp.
 
As I've said in numerous other threads, IMHO, and much as I love Wes for his local connections etc, we have serious weaknesses at CH. Looking at Taylor of Watford, he was unbelievably effective at this level. I honestly think that none of our three Centre Halves would cut at in the Prem and none of them give us enough REAL stability in defence for us to have any real confidence even at this modest level. Every time the ball goes into our box, it becomes a f**king drama. The knock-on effect for the rest of the team would be amazing if we could efficiently deal with everything the opposition throw at our defence.
I very much doubt that we have any players of Prem worth, save perhaps Gunts and McGugan on his day. One or two might develop ('cos they're young), but that's it. All expendible. Just a thought.....
 
Morgan did not have a pre-season at all and was pitched straight into the first team after injury , while this season , his form hasn't been that good , he has been one of our most consistent defender over the past 3 years or so but this season , he possibly needs a spell on the bench but unfortunately , we simply do not have anyone else to switch it around. Chambers is calamity luke , he has no composure when under pressure and a pushover against big strikers. We needed new defenders - someone who is dominant in the air since last season. How many goals conceeded this season has been a result of headers inside the box ?
 
We should have gotten Danny Shittu , instead Millwall sign him up on a short term loan. He's experienced at this level and did very well previously with Watford , scoring like 9 goals in the season. Big powerful defender who can head the f*cking ball out of the box.
First match for Millwall and he bagged the man of the match , while he might have struggled in the EPL , he knows how to play at this level.

Jay Demerit is still looking for a club and while he's not the answer to our aerial problem in the box , he's better than chambers.
 
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simple injured during pre season so not as much a pre season as hoped,not a settled defence unlike last year and the players in front of the defence not doing enough its ok going forward but at some point you have to defend and our midfield has not been that great at breaking up attacks
 
marshal99 said:
We should have gotten Danny Shittu , instead Millwall sign him up on a short term loan. He's experienced at this level and did very well previously with Watford , scoring like 9 goals in the season. Big powerful defender who can head the f*cking ball out of the box.
First match for Millwall and he bagged the man of the match , while he might have struggled in the EPL , he knows how to play at this level.

Jay Demerit is still looking for a club and while he's not the answer to our aerial problem in the box , he's better than chambers.
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While Shittu would have provided experience, which am all for, in effect he's just another Morgan (big and powerful), and he'd need someone with pace alongside him as you have to have that balance - which is why Wilson or Chambers always play alongside Wes, and never together, unless Wes injured of course.

Thing is you look at the two teams at the top of the league, Cardiff and QPR and their centre back partnerships. Gyepes and Hudson and Gorkss and Connolly/Hill, you wouldn't honestly say either of them are any better really than Morgan, Wilson, Chambers although they may be slightly more experienced in some cases. In fact, I think other teams look quite enviously on our central defensive options. However, the one thing we do lack is experience and a no-nonsense, abrasive centre half like Martin Taylor for example.

Where those other teams do have potency though of course is in midfield and attack, which is why they're towards the top, because of their goal power, and experience in those positions.
 
matt1982 said:
While Shittu would have provided experience, which am all for, in effect he's just another Morgan (big and powerful), and he'd need someone with pace alongside him as you have to have that balance - which is why Wilson or Chambers always play alongside Wes, and never together, unless Wes injured of course.

Thing is you look at the two teams at the top of the league, Cardiff and QPR and their centre back partnerships. Gyepes and Hudson and Gorkss and Connolly/Hill, you wouldn't honestly say either of them are any better really than Morgan, Wilson, Chambers although they may be slightly more experienced in some cases. In fact, I think other teams look quite enviously on our central defensive options. However, the one thing we do lack is experience and a no-nonsense, abrasive centre half like Martin Taylor for example.

Where those other teams do have potency though of course is in midfield and attack, which is why they're towards the top, because of their goal power, and experience in those positions.
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As long as we are vulnerable in the air and conceeding soft preventable goals , we need a giant defender. While Morgan is strong , he's not that tall at all and he generally has to deal with strikers that are taller than he is. Shittu would have corrected that problem as Shittu is bigger and taller than Morgan and far better in the air. He has experience at this level , and he has international experience playing against the likes of Messi in the world cup. Morgan , as has been said , hasn't been that good this season. He needs a spell on the bench , Shittu would have been ideal replacement. Your example of the Cardiff & QPR defenders , both teams have bigger , taller defenders than forest who are strong in the air - Gorkss & Gyepes are all taller than Wilson and Morgan. Wilson is our tallest defender and he's not especially strong in the air , he has improved though compared to last time.

Put it this way , we generally struggles against target man type strikers. Take the 2 in our team - Blackstock & Adebola , we struggled against both when they were playing against us.
 
Get off Wes's back. He's been superb the last few seasons and would die for the cause. What the hell do you want instead ? Rio bloody Ferdinand ? Geeze. Yes we let in too many goals from free headers and teams pumping the ball into our box but you could say that for the last 15 years....we've ALWAYS been poorish at defending an aerial bombardment.
 
Its interesting no one has said give Chambers and Wilson a go.

I love Wes to bits but I think it might be time to give him a spell on the bench to reflect and work on his form.

We haven't had a CB that deals well with Aerial balls since Dawson was sold.
 
Morgan made his debut in 2003. He has made more than 300 appearances for the club after becoming a replacement for Michael Dawson. His first partner in defence was Des Walker. The thing that marks Wes out from other players is his build. If players were boats, Wes is an aircraft carrier. He's six feet one and weighs fourteen stone, but to an opposition centre forward, Wes must also seem to be six feet wide.
 
Get off Wes's back. He's been superb the last few seasons and would die for the cause. What the hell do you want instead ? Rio bloody Ferdinand ? Geeze. Yes we let in too many goals from free headers and teams pumping the ball into our box but you could say that for the last 15 years....we've ALWAYS been poorish at defending an aerial bombardment.
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Morgan made his debut in 2003. He has made more than 300 appearances for the club after becoming a replacement for Michael Dawson. His first partner in defence was Des Walker. The thing that marks Wes out from other players is his build. If players were boats, Wes is an aircraft carrier. He's six feet one and weighs fourteen stone, but to an opposition centre forward, Wes must also seem to be six feet wide.
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Maybe the fans need to get on Wes Morgan's back, as the player is carrying too much weight. His upper body strength, build and physique is too large for a defender, as a consequence his reactions and speed over a short distance has suffered. Thus this season he has made a number of poor judgemental errors and tackles giving away needless fouls, and without his partner Wilson who compensates with his speed and tackling, the defence has been stretched and looked rather ordinary against inferior opposition. It is upto the coaching staff and the player himself to re-adjust his training regime and curtail the usage of weight and body building, this way a leaner, fitter Wes should regain his pace and reactions.
 
nemesiz said:
Maybe the fans need to get on Wes Morgan's back, as the player is carrying too much weight. His upper body strength, build and physique is too large for a defender, as a consequence his reactions and speed over a short distance has suffered. Thus this season he has made a number of poor judgemental errors and tackles giving away needless fouls, and without his partner Wilson who compensates with his speed and tackling, the defence has been stretched and looked rather ordinary against inferior opposition. It is upto the coaching staff and the player himself to re-adjust his training regime and curtail the usage of weight and body building, this way a leaner, fitter Wes should regain his pace and reactions.
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I'm not being funny, but have you actually seen Wes close up in person? He is not carrying too much weight at all, the lad is just one solid unit.

How he can be called is beyond me, he has been great once again this season.
 
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