Nuno Espírito Santo

Alf-engelos Mindminackers

Alf-engelos Mindminackers

The Artiste formally known as "w**ksy"
Colh said:
As much as this would be quality to get him the Sack - Does anybody actually genuinely think Forest will win tomorrow night?
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I was quite confident about it until today - 3 of the 4 teams we've lost to in recent weeks (Villa, Man City & Fulham) are all in the top 6 of the form table. We tend to struggle against those sides, but beat those struggling at the bottom - which West Ham are.

But the Edu news has put the cat amongst the pigeons. It suggests there's more bad blood at the club, and that tends to seep down to the pitch sadly. So I'm way less confident now.
 
MaxiRobriguez

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Colh said:
As much as this would be quality to get him the Sack - Does anybody actually genuinely think Forest will win tomorrow night?
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Yes.
 
Notcher

Notcher

Ian Bowyer
When the chips are down the one thing you need above all else in a gaffer is a great man manager.

It seems all the pieces are falling into place with Hutch saying he never spoke to him and Yates on the high performance podcast saying none of the players actually know what he's like.
 
Galaxie

Galaxie

Youth Team
Notcher said:
When the chips are down the one thing you need above all else in a gaffer is a great man manager.

It seems all the pieces are falling into place with Hutch saying he never spoke to him and Yates on the high performance podcast saying none of the players actually know what he's like.
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All managers have a public and team persona, which is very separate from their private life. How many players "knew" their managers? Who truly knew Cloughie, Ferguson, Shankly, Mourinho, Cooper etc...

How do we explain the great vibe, togetherness and dressing room energy of last year? We put it just down to winning and having no connection to the manager?

What I saw last year was a manager supporting that culture and togetherness in how he was with the players after matches and in dressing room videos.

So, the question is... What went wrong? Was it the Mendes/Edu/Recruitment thing? Was it an insistence on a change of style against the manager's wishes? Something else? We will never truly know and it's easy to speculate and make "facts" fit the narrative - but the same facts have to be valid also for last season if we speak about Yates (obviously the Hutch situation doesn't enter that but is indicative of the already failing situation with the club and Nuno).

For example it was obvious that Ange never had a rapport with the players or fans right from the start (huge red flag), whereas Dyche clearly instills a more natural team vibe but is suffering a bit now because of a lack of nous and experience in the squad and a lack of compactness when playing that makes us too vulnerable to transitions and mistakes. (Look at how the compactness past year helped so much on players helping each other or bailing out mistakes of another (look at how many last ditch blocks and goal line clearances there were).

Look also at the general trend now that seems to becoming more and more prevelant with the greater number of American owners. Everything becomes more and more data and sports science driven, team selection is interfered with based on data or the brand of "entertaining" football the DoF or club hierarchy wants at an increasing number of clubs.

Teams hire coaches not managers and are looking for these coaches to play in a certain way and have more or less instant success. I can envisage a scenario where it becomes more and more like American Football with seasonal coach changes as club owners seems trophies or European football - in fact we are already very close to this scenario in reality.

It also seems that modern coaching has been encumbered by all kinds of fancy tactical and formation ideas and plenty of managers (Ange, Amorim, Nancy) seemingly unable to adapt to the squad they inherit and instead insist on a style and formation that is ill-suited to those players.

The best coaches/managers will always be adaptable to play to the strengths of the players at their disposal. Look at how Dyche got us looking reasonably solid again almost instantly following the Ange Debacle.

That digression aside it seems more likely that the conflicts that appear are due to a conflict between club and manager/coach vision and fulfilment of the recruitment needs to fulfil that vision. When club and coach are on a different page or club recruitment is.focuaed on a club vision and not the needs the manager feels he needs, then it is always a recipe for a parting of the ways... See Maresco with Chelsea for example and maybe even the pursuit of Traore by Nuno was him actually looking for another speedster to replace Elanga and one of the biggest assets he gave us (not saying Traore was the ideal choice but you can see a like for like idea there).

So, I would say it's not as simple as we are trying to portray it and to get anywhere near a "truth" we have to consider many more factors.
 
Notcher

Notcher

Ian Bowyer
Galaxie said:
All managers have a public and team persona, which is very separate from their private life. How many players "knew" their managers? Who truly knew Cloughie, Ferguson, Shankly, Mourinho, Cooper etc...

How do we explain the great vibe, togetherness and dressing room energy of last year? We put it just down to winning and having no connection to the manager?

What I saw last year was a manager supporting that culture and togetherness in how he was with the players after matches and in dressing room videos.

So, the question is... What went wrong? Was it the Mendes/Edu/Recruitment thing? Was it an insistence on a change of style against the manager's wishes? Something else? We will never truly know and it's easy to speculate and make "facts" fit the narrative - but the same facts have to be valid also for last season if we speak about Yates (obviously the Hutch situation doesn't enter that but is indicative of the already failing situation with the club and Nuno).

For example it was obvious that Ange never had a rapport with the players or fans right from the start (huge red flag), whereas Dyche clearly instills a more natural team vibe but is suffering a bit now because of a lack of nous and experience in the squad and a lack of compactness when playing that makes us too vulnerable to transitions and mistakes. (Look at how the compactness past year helped so much on players helping each other or bailing out mistakes of another (look at how many last ditch blocks and goal line clearances there were).

Look also at the general trend now that seems to becoming more and more prevelant with the greater number of American owners. Everything becomes more and more data and sports science driven, team selection is interfered with based on data or the brand of "entertaining" football the DoF or club hierarchy wants at an increasing number of clubs.

Teams hire coaches not managers and are looking for these coaches to play in a certain way and have more or less instant success. I can envisage a scenario where it becomes more and more like American Football with seasonal coach changes as club owners seems trophies or European football - in fact we are already very close to this scenario in reality.

It also seems that modern coaching has been encumbered by all kinds of fancy tactical and formation ideas and plenty of managers (Ange, Amorim, Nancy) seemingly unable to adapt to the squad they inherit and instead insist on a style and formation that is ill-suited to those players.

The best coaches/managers will always be adaptable to play to the strengths of the players at their disposal. Look at how Dyche got us looking reasonably solid again almost instantly following the Ange Debacle.

That digression aside it seems more likely that the conflicts that appear are due to a conflict between club and manager/coach vision and fulfilment of the recruitment needs to fulfil that vision. When club and coach are on a different page or club recruitment is.focuaed on a club vision and not the needs the manager feels he needs, then it is always a recipe for a parting of the ways... See Maresco with Chelsea for example and maybe even the pursuit of Traore by Nuno was him actually looking for another speedster to replace Elanga and one of the biggest assets he gave us (not saying Traore was the ideal choice but you can see a like for like idea there).

So, I would say it's not as simple as we are trying to portray it and to get anywhere near a "truth" we have to consider many more factors.
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The simple answer to your question lay within the first sentence of my post "when the chips are down".

Everything is easy when you're winning. You don't care about how the manager is so much, you're winning and loving life. When the chips are down that's when those factors matter. I can speak from first hand experience, you need a leader l, a motivator, someone that knows how to get the most out of each individual player, what to say, how to say it. Players will find excuses, they'll hide, they'll throw the towel in. From my playing days I've seen it all. I've played in successful championship winning sides and I've played in sides that have struggled at the bottom. You need a manager that can prevent a team from spiralling down and the common denominator that has separated the ones that can get teams out of the shit and the ones that can't has been man management irrespective of who was better tactically or the better coach.
 
Strummer

Strummer

I love the smell of Napalm in the morning
LTLF Minion
Trents said:
Has a club ever got the same manager sacked twice in the same season?
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I was just scratching my head as to whether any coach has been sacked twice, in the same season, by two different clubs?

I mean, there must be one... right?
 
D

Deleted User 5857

Viv Anderson
Cureboy said:
Sacked in the morning 🤞

(That's what Nuno is thinking anyway...) 💰💰💰💰💰
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