[LTLF]Remembering the 96..

[LTLF]

Remembering the 96..


I’m going to start this piece deeply inappropriately.  I, like many Forest fans, bloody hate Liverpool.  If I am honest, the annual discussions that crop up about the Hillsborough disaster each anniversary on Forest forums leave me somewhat cold and uncomfortable, partly due to my own ignorance, and because of the over-eagerness to apportion blame [...]


http://www.ltlf.co.uk/forest/2009/04/15/remembering-the-96/

 

[krakk]

My condolences to all the families of the innocent dead from Hillsborough 1989.

Last night the commentator said Chelsea gave their fans free flags to create a better atmosphere then the camera cuts to some scousers and he says 'but they don't need free flags, they bring their own', and this is what really pisses me off, the media is always saying what great fans liverpool fans are, this is surely just because they have a famous song they all sing before games. And this is my issue, which team's fans are responsible for the 2 greatest footballing tragedies of all time? (Hysel and Hillsborough) and they've not learnt a thing because the same thing could have happened in Instanbul. These types of people are scum and it is these scum that killed all those innocent kids, which is what really pisses me off, nobody mentions the armies of drunken scousers who turned up to the match without tickets and crushed all the poor children who got in legitimately, i just hope those people who know who they are can't sleep at night but I suspect they truly believe it was entirely the polices fault because they are that thick. I'm sure these are in the minority but they do exist and I just wish somebody would mention it every now and then so people can learn from their mistakes. The police are to blame as well, but would they have had to open the gates if these idiots hadn't have tried to force their way in?

20 years ago i witnessed the death of 96 people and my defining memory is before the game walking past the end where it all happened and seeing drunken scousers running under police horses.

 

[yam]

The police got it wrong and those who panicked and failed to control the Liverpool fans should have been punished - not allowed to resign and retire on fat pensions.

However if the Liverpool fans had behaved in a more orderly manner then there wouldn't have been a situation for them to lose control of in the first place.

The Kop end was massive, I don't remember any problems or crushes getting into that end and there must have been three or four times as many Forest fans there as there were Liverpool fans at Leppings Lane.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Agree with the sentiments of both posts. I can't remember the issue of the thousands of Liverpool fans turning up for a 'free for all' ever being considered after the game, or since, without it being somehow made to seem like the smearing of the memory of those who died. The fact remains that ticketless Liverpool fans turned up 'bevvied' 5 minutes before kick-off and ran the gates.

I read recently that Peter Beardsley felt a weird sense of guilt in hitting the bar about 3 minutes in causing the roar that led to the surge from the back of the stand.

I remember the first few minutes being all out attack from Liverpool, with one close effort for Forest just before the fans spilled on to the pitch. My Grandad noticed 'something not being right' just before this and how strange it was that hundreds of Liverpool fans were still pouring in after kick-off. At big games, the police have usually controlled the influx and closed access well in advance.

Which leads me to ask where the communication around the ground was that day? This is especially surprising considering the lessons learnt and emphasis on crowd control in and around the City as a result of the high profile of football violence at that time. Was nobody on the Yorkshire force talking that day and relaying back that large numbers were still moving towards the ground?

My clearest memories are of dozens of Forest fans climbing the fence to help once they had been made aware of the situation at the other end by the Liverpool fans who ran to the Kop, and hearing on the radio during the journey home that 45 people had died - first estimate.

 

[the mask of zorro]

2.30PM 15/04/1989 Walking round the ground. Leppings lane end, ugly, confrontational atmosphere with hordes of people standing around (and they DID have barriers up just forward of the turnstiles).
Round to the Forest end, party atmosphere, no one milling around outside but packed into the ground.

I just wish I could understand why the Liverpool 'fans' only ran down the tunnel of the centre section, and then when they hit a wall of people, kept pushing, because no matter who was to blame for opening or not opening gates, when that happens, there is only going to be one outcome. I remember games when I was younger, where more than once, feeling like I was going to be crushed, but always the people at the back would stop pushing and everything would be alright.

As said before, there must be some who feel huge guilt, but passing the blame will obviously help.

 

[Neurotica]

2.30PM 15/04/1989 Walking round the ground. Leppings lane end, ugly, confrontational atmosphere with hordes of people standing around (and they DID have barriers up just forward of the turnstiles).
Round to the Forest end, party atmosphere, no one milling around outside but packed into the ground.

I just wish I could understand why the Liverpool 'fans' only ran down the tunnel of the centre section, and then when they hit a wall of people, kept pushing, because no matter who was to blame for opening or not opening gates, when that happens, there is only going to be one outcome. I remember games when I was younger, where more than once, feeling like I was going to be crushed, but always the people at the back would stop pushing and everything would be alright.

As said before, there must be some who feel huge guilt, but passing the blame will obviously help.

Maybe it was because they had nowhere else to go?! They couldn't go backwards!

I really wonder if people would be so quick to point the finger if it was any other club than Liverpool.
I watched the service this afternoon and as the father that lost his TWO daughters said, the internet is a wonderful thing but it is also a platform for an awful lot of idiots who weren't even there to spout alot of untruths.

 

[nigelnffc]

Maybe it was because they had nowhere else to go?! They couldn't go backwards!

I really wonder if people would be so quick to point the finger if it was any other club than Liverpool.
I watched the service this afternoon and as the father that lost his TWO daughters said, the internet is a wonderful thing but it is also a platform for an awful lot of idiots who weren't even there to spout alot of untruths.

would any other club than liverpool taken so many fans without tickets we will never know, and maybe people point the finger so much because they only ever point the finger at the police and forget to mention the people without tickets trying to get in, this still happens today with their fans a friend of mine who is a liverpool season ticket holder now bunked into every match in his 1st season at anfield and i know that on the european nights even now many of our mates without tickets bunk into the kop to stand with him, he went to both their recent european cup finals and said only half their group on both occasions had tickets (about 10) but all of them got in he said athens was shocking everyone was just charging because of no turnstiles one friend got in with a old ticket from 2005 lol but if another disaster happened again they wouldn't mention this and it would be poor old liverpool again it always happens to them but they never learn

don't take this as me not having sympathy as i do for the 96 many posts i have read from people who were there have put a tear in my eye

 

[the mask of zorro]

I listened to a special on Heart FM tonight, and I must admit that it's the first time I've heard details from people who were part of the crush. What was really interesting was listening to the guy who was being crushed OUTSIDE the turnstiles, who thought that the police had no option buy to open the gates. But again the question remains why did they all run down the same channel, and I'm sorry Neurotica, but having been in the Leppings lane end myself previously, they could have gone to the left or right, but what they didn't have to do was push forward.

I listened to that special, and I heard interviews with Liverpool fans, I heard policemen, ambulance drivers, Bruce Grobbelar, the Ref, Brian Laws and people from Sheffield. What I didn't hear (though I didn't listen to the end) was one Forest fan. Why is that?I have my views.

By the way Neurotica, were you there?

 

[yam]

Maybe it was because they had nowhere else to go?! They couldn't go backwards!

I really wonder if people would be so quick to point the finger if it was any other club than Liverpool.
I watched the service this afternoon and as the father that lost his TWO daughters said, the internet is a wonderful thing but it is also a platform for an awful lot of idiots who weren't even there to spout alot of untruths.

I was there. I saw what I saw.

 

[the mask of zorro]

I really wonder if people would be so quick to point the finger if it was any other club than Liverpool.
I watched the service this afternoon and as the father that lost his TWO daughters said, the internet is a wonderful thing but it is also a platform for an awful lot of idiots who weren't even there to spout alot of untruths.

By the way Neurotica, were you there?

Still waiting.

 

[Flaggers]

the father that lost his TWO daughters said, the internet is a wonderful thing but it is also a platform for an awful lot of idiots who weren't even there to spout alot of untruths.

And a lot of truths too, some of which are a little unpalatable for some people...

 

[Maverick]

 

[Graham]

My condolences to all the families of the innocent dead from Hillsborough 1989.

Last night the commentator said Chelsea gave their fans free flags to create a better atmosphere then the camera cuts to some scousers and he says 'but they don't need free flags, they bring their own', and this is what really p**ses me off, the media is always saying what great fans liverpool fans are, this is surely just because they have a famous song they all sing before games. And this is my issue, which team's fans are responsible for the 2 greatest footballing tragedies of all time? (Hysel and Hillsborough) and they've not learnt a thing because the same thing could have happened in Instanbul. These types of people are scum and it is these scum that killed all those innocent kids, which is what really p**ses me off, nobody mentions the armies of drunken scousers who turned up to the match without tickets and crushed all the poor children who got in legitimately, i just hope those people who know who they are can't sleep at night but I suspect they truly believe it was entirely the polices fault because they are that thick. I'm sure these are in the minority but they do exist and I just wish somebody would mention it every now and then so people can learn from their mistakes. The police are to blame as well, but would they have had to open the gates if these idiots hadn't have tried to force their way in?

20 years ago i witnessed the death of 96 people and my defining memory is before the game walking past the end where it all happened and seeing drunken scousers running under police horses.

I mentioned some of the above points in a interview i did yesterday for a Greek newspaper (Graham Baker). Have a read, sorry about the translation, i'm not guilty for that, i know some of it will not make any sence but its interesting to see what Ray Houghton said and the other fella who is also a scouse compared to what i said.http://translate.google.com/transla...t&prev=/search?q=www.englishfootball.gr&hl=en

 

[yam]

Is this the moment that disaster started?.......

 

[Graham]

Is this the moment that disaster started?.......

Ermmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I think that picture was stolen from LTLF.

 

[yam]

I was just thinking the answer is probably yes. The people in that photo have got blood on their hands at least as much as the authorities.

If the police fail to stop a mugger comitting a crime is it the fault of the police or the fault of the mugger for being a mugger in the first place?

Aren't police therefore responsible for all crime because they fail to stop it?

 

[TheDude]

i think anyone who was there and had a ounce of knowledge knows who takes alot of the blame but you just can't say it can you...

 

[winnits]

Well I don't think there can be any complaints that Forest shunned the anniversary on an official scale.

Remembering Hillsborough … 20 years on
Wed 15 Apr 2009
Nottingham Forest will be represented by Chief Executive Mark Arthur at the 20th Hillsborough anniversary service being held at Anfield this afternoon.

The inter-denominational service is taking place on the Kop, starting at 2.45pm and will include a two-minute silence at 3.06pm.

Liverpool directors, officials and players and thousands of other football fans will be present for the service.

The Forest flag will fly at half mast at The City Ground all day today and similar tributes are being made by Nottingham City Council and Rushcliffe Borough Council.

As a mark of respect for the 96 supporters who lost their lives in the FA Cup semi final disaster, the Forest players will wear black armbands for next Saturday's Championship game against Coventry City at The City Ground.

Paul Anderson, who, of course, is on loan from Liverpool to Forest, made his own personal tribute by wearing a black armband at last Saturday's game against Bristol City.

Linkie

 

[Graham]

Scroo down to where it says Justice for the 96 and read the fourth paragraph down. That is complete and utter bollocks and the bloke who wrote that wants f***ing shooting.

 

[Graham]

Forgot the link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/7998254.stm

 

[Roonaldo]

Scroo down to where it says Justice for the 96 and read the fourth paragraph down. That is complete and utter b*****ks and the bloke who wrote that wants f**king shooting.

? Which article?

 

[Graham]

? Which article?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/7998254.stm

 

[yam]

As I recall there was some chanting of "sign on" and "not not not not nottingham" until we realiswed what was going on. There was ceraintly no chanting of Hysel.

 

[Graham]

Agreed Citizen. I have emailed the guy who wrote that article at BBC NW and i've demanded an apology and told him he's a disgrace. I'll let you know if he replies.

 

[yam]

I can't rule out that a few individuals nearer the front might have shouted it as I was about 2/3 of the way up the Kop end. The way he says it could easily be inferred that the majority of Forest fans were chanting it.