[LTLF] A response to ‘the response’

[LTLF]

Eight days after Forest fans realised they were getting nothing to improve their hopes for the new season, the club finally issued a response to the criticism they have, rightfully in my opinion, received. But rather than Mark Arthur apologising for his public naming of targets and making the club’s Acquisitions Panel look like the amateurs that they are, he prefers to treat the fans with contempt and an air of arrogance [...]

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[Red Wills]

Ouch! Say what you mean.

I won't be protesting on Saturday, I will be supporting the team though. As many have said, there are 2 sides to this arguement, I don't know which side of the fence I sit on, that is why they call me 'Splinter Arse'. Enjoyed the read though.

 

[winnits]

In my experience subjects that attract such polarities generally have the reality at either extreme.

Managed a paragraph and could probably guess the rest.

 

[Red Wills]

I read it all and still didn't manage to spell argument correctly.

The bit about getting the 5 minutes of my life back struck home, ie I think I've spent enough time reading about the subject. Time to move on, for me anyway.

 

[Forest_Grump]

It will never be time to give up. Never surrender!

 

[Bonalair]

It will never be time to give up. Never surrender!

Forest Grump is the Wolfie Smith of Forest Fans! Come the revolution....

 

[BennyMac]

I am a first time poster but felt so angry after reading Mark Arthur's response. How dare he put than thinly veiled threat to forest fans. I take Doughty at his word that he would invest in "two or three quality or stellar/ Quality signings". He put his money where his mouth was with big investment in the 9 signings last summer. Therefore I think blaming ND is pointless- unless there is a better alternative- which there isnt at the minute. The person who yet again at the bottom of this mess is Mark Arthur himself....Why?

1. Mark Arthur as chief executive job is to get the players do the negotiations. Well they have clearly failed.

2. Mark Arthur- BBC Radio Nottingham interview- When he had embarassing interview where he was chuckling with his mate Robin Chipperfield about how Pratley/ Whittingham wanted to join us. 24 hours later Dave Jones and swans chairman call for him to be charged for tapping up. Arthur apparently apologies with his tail behind his legs. Surely making negotaitions more difficult. Pratley/ Whittingham make no public signs of wanting to come, instead seem set to sit out last year of contracts.

3. Mark Arthur- Refuses to speak to press yesterday (ie answer difficult questions) and says its ND is bound to think about investment if abused. Completely takes the heat of himself. Sorry Mark but think the heat should be on you son.

4. Mark Arthur- Is a cricket man to be fair he is not a football man. I know he claimed under CC he said if we failed to get automatic promotion that we would bottle it in the play offs. Perhaps had half a point with our record- but not what a chief executive should be saying.

5. Mark Arthur- Stays as chief executive despite a whole range of managers- Hart, Kinnear Harford, Megson, Calderwood going. Relegation top league one etc but he still stays. Surely he has to be made accountable?

6. Mark Arthur- Communication. We all ND likes to take a back seat and shys away from publicity. That is his choice if he puts 13m into club that his choice but surely absolute silence on transfer deadline and then for next 8 days is not what fans want.

7. Transfer Windows- This is not just a problem since Billy took charge. I remember in our promotion season losing two nil to Bournemouth after we missed out on Danns and Best? And the fans being unhappy. Three january windows and no signings. A record perhaps?

ps I know its a bit of a rant and I would also criticise David Pleat as I feel he has a negative impact on the relationship between Billy and the board

 

[soulmonkeylove]

It is no wonder that the club does not want to speak openly when its fanbase is so deluded. With a response like that it is also no wonder that this forum reeks of negativity.

You ask for money, Doughty pumps it in. You don't get what you want and Doughty is an idiot because the club owes him money. For God's sake take a look at yourselves and realise how stupid you look?

We wouldn't even be having this argument if Earnie had had a little more luck with the woodwork this season as we'd be joint top. That is how pathetic and fickle the majority of you are!!!

Oh, and to LTLF - In running this forum you assume a position of authority and responsibility that it is disappointing to see you abuse. Instead of stirring up support for our beloved club your negativity drips down through the spine of this forum infecting almost all in its path. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[BennyMac]

Have you actually read the thread soul. It is quite clear Doughty is not the man to blame. He puts the money in and there is no alternative. I agree. But the way the chief exec has been a complete disaster along with the AP.

 

[Forest_Grump]

It is no wonder that the club does not want to speak openly when its fanbase is so deluded. With a response like that it is also no wonder that this forum reeks of negativity.

You ask for money, Doughty pumps it in. You don't get what you want and Doughty is an idiot because the club owes him money. For God's sake take a look at yourselves and realise how stupid you look?

We wouldn't even be having this argument if Earnie had had a little more luck with the woodwork this season as we'd be joint top. That is how pathetic and fickle the majority of you are!!!

Oh, and to LTLF - In running this forum you assume a position of authority and responsibility that it is disappointing to see you abuse. Instead of stirring up support for our beloved club your negativity drips down through the spine of this forum infecting almost all in its path. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And a response like that doesnt deserve debate. I dont expect everyone to agree and am happy to argue my corner but calling other fans, pathetic, fickle, deluded, etc because you disagree leaves me with absolutely no desire to engage you in conversation.

 

[Bonalair]

It is no wonder that the club does not want to speak openly when its fanbase is so deluded. With a response like that it is also no wonder that this forum reeks of negativity.

You ask for money, Doughty pumps it in. You don't get what you want and Doughty is an idiot because the club owes him money. For God's sake take a look at yourselves and realise how stupid you look?

We wouldn't even be having this argument if Earnie had had a little more luck with the woodwork this season as we'd be joint top. That is how pathetic and fickle the majority of you are!!!

Oh, and to LTLF - In running this forum you assume a position of authority and responsibility that it is disappointing to see you abuse. Instead of stirring up support for our beloved club your negativity drips down through the spine of this forum infecting almost all in its path. You should be ashamed of yourself.

A forum is for everyone to have their say - what do you suggest, the forum mods go through and delete any negative posts? Not much of a forum then is it?

You are quite right on the Earnie/post/top point. But the rest of your post is pointlessly aggressive.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[winnits]

Oh, and to LTLF - In running this forum you assume a position of authority and responsibility that it is disappointing to see you abuse. Instead of stirring up support for our beloved club your negativity drips down through the spine of this forum infecting almost all in its path. You should be ashamed of yourself.

LTLF as an entity is a community, with quite clearly set out rules and guidelines. It is not a dictatorship where only a certain viewpoint are tolerated, whatever you might prefer. As for negativeity 'dripping down' - I think you'll find that generally (Flagman aside ) - the moderating and admin team are generally on the positive side of the spectrum, if a little more the middle than most people who seem to only operate in dualities rather than continuums.

Our 'responsibility' is to give supporters an outlet to discuss Forest (and beyond) with fellow fans - and naturally that will result in a diverse spread of opinions, and varying standards of people being able to express them - be it via the forum or on the LTLF content site. Of course, if you don't like those views you are eminently entitled to either comment upon them or counter them with your own. Which you are doing, and is lovely.

So am I ashamed? Not really. If you don't like the place, there's plenty of alternatives - although in my experience tend to be more negative. If you can only find negativity on these pages I suggest you perhaps read the board more carefully.

 

[soulmonkeylove]

And a response like that doesnt deserve debate. I dont expect everyone to agree and am happy to argue my corner but calling other fans, pathetic, fickle, deluded, etc because you disagree leaves me with absolutely no desire to engage you in conversation.

Erm... but you have responded.

A forum is for everyone to have their say - what do you suggest, the forum mods go through and delete any negative posts? Not much of a forum then is it?

You are quite right on the Earnie/post/top point. But the rest of your post is pointlessly aggressive.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

It is interesting how people get defensive and take the moral high ground when the aggression is pointed at them. And why should I be ashamed of myself? I am not the one leading or following a mutiny bound by ignorance.

Oh, and by agreeing with the Earnie point, you are actually backing up my point on fickleness.

 

[Flaggers]

As for negativeity 'dripping down' - I think you'll find that generally (Flagman aside ) - the moderating and admin team are generally on the positive side of the spectrum, if a little more the middle than most people who seem to only operate in dualities rather than continuums.

:dani x:

:dani x:

 

[soulmonkeylove]

LTLF as an entity is a community, with quite clearly set out rules and guidelines. It is not a dictatorship where only a certain viewpoint are tolerated, whatever you might prefer. As for negativeity 'dripping down' - I think you'll find that generally (Flagman aside ) - the moderating and admin team are generally on the positive side of the spectrum, if a little more the middle than most people who seem to only operate in dualities rather than continuums.

Our 'responsibility' is to give supporters an outlet to discuss Forest (and beyond) with fellow fans - and naturally that will result in a diverse spread of opinions, and varying standards of people being able to express them - be it via the forum or on the LTLF content site. Of course, if you don't like those views you are eminently entitled to either comment upon them or counter them with your own. Which you are doing, and is lovely.

So am I ashamed? Not really. If you don't like the place, there's plenty of alternatives - although in my experience tend to be more negative. If you can only find negativity on these pages I suggest you perhaps read the board more carefully.

If that is so, then you should present all sides of the argument as opposed to one and let people make their choices. The article in question is heavily biased as is highlighted by the words "my view is very one sided" at the start of the piece.

As one of the moderators on this forum you have a duty of responsibility, if only from a moral perspective in order to maintain the balance of a truly open forum. Of course the decision is yours as to how you choose to run the place, however you say one thing and do quite another.

I think "Lost That Loving Feeling" really does sum of the mood of this forum in general right now and in my opinion this article only serves to highlight the reason why.

 

[bakeri666]

Yay, more senseless arguments in which the instigator gets too worked up to pay attention to the responses...
i love these. Thank you.

now if only someone had a fun photo like a militant squirrel

 

[Flaggers]

As one of the moderators on this forum you have a duty of responsibility, if only from a moral perspective in order to maintain the balance of a truly open forum. Of course the decision is yours as to how you choose to run the place, however you say one thing and do quite another.

So what you're saying, then, is that if a discussion appears, and it seems to be going in one direction, I should step in and delete all the "offending" posts so as to maintain a balance?!

Go and boil your head.

 

[winnits]

If that is so, then you should present all sides of the argument as opposed to one and let people make their choices. The article in question is heavily biased as is highlighted by the words "my view is very one sided" at the start of the piece.

As one of the moderators on this forum you have a duty of responsibility, if only from a moral perspective in order to maintain the balance of a truly open forum. Of course the decision is yours as to how you choose to run the place, however you say one thing and do quite another.

I think "Lost That Loving Feeling" really does sum of the mood of this forum in general right now and in my opinion this article only serves to highlight the reason why.

Article submitted, article published - comments enabled. Why is that unfair?

You could submit an article to offer your own perspective (which on a personal note I agree with a lot more than the article in question).. and I put it to you, as a member of the LTLF community that in fact it is YOU, or likeminded people to YOU who are abandoning their duty to put their own views across, instead just sniping and making ludicrous accusations on a message board.

We don't as 'the management' promote or accept or necessarily buy into every word that is submitted either to the content site or the forum - but so long as there is no breach in our rules, then that's okay isn't it? You have the right to reply either through commenting or writing your own piece.

If you can't be arsed, I'd say that's your fault rather than ours.

 

[Alexandro Garibaldi]

Everyone at Forest needs our support, including Mark Arthur!

Trent Bridge over troubled waters?

Keep calm and carry on

It's not like LTLF is flooding the web with alarmist anti-Doughty propaganda. I could cite more examples of original articles and ones we've linked to.

Like Winnits (who takes none of the responsibility or blame for the LTLF.co.uk site) says, the article was submitted, I published it and the right to reply is fully open. What should I have done, rejected it because not everyone would agree with it? If I did that, LTLF would be a blank page.

 

[Bonalair]

Erm... but you have responded.



It is interesting how people get defensive and take the moral high ground when the aggression is pointed at them. And why should I be ashamed of myself? I am not the one leading or following a mutiny bound by ignorance.

Oh, and by agreeing with the Earnie point, you are actually backing up my point on fickleness.

How am I fickle? I agree with you. A bit more luck with the woodwork and we would be in a much, much better position. We've largely (apart from the Norwich game) played quite well. I am not calling for the chairmans head. So how am I fickle?

Forest Grump is entitled to his opinion, he blogged it, contacted LTLF and posted it there too. If you want to maintain the balance I suggest you do the same.

 

[soulmonkeylove]

How am I fickle? I agree with you. A bit more luck with the woodwork and we would be in a much, much better position. We've largely (apart from the Norwich game) played quite well. I am not calling for the chairmans head. So how am I fickle?

Forest Grump is entitled to his opinion, he blogged it, contacted LTLF and posted it there too. If you want to maintain the balance I suggest you do the same.

I am not suggesting you are fickle. I am saying that in effect you are agreeing with the fickle nature of our fanbase.

 

[soulmonkeylove]

So what you're saying, then, is that if a discussion appears, and it seems to be going in one direction, I should step in and delete all the "offending" posts so as to maintain a balance?!

Go and boil your head.

I am suggesting you present a balanced argument in the first place as opposed to one that claims bias at the outset.

 

[Forest_Grump]

Erm... but you have responded.

Erm...Id didnt say I wasnt going to respond if you actually read the post. I said I have no desire to enter a debate about the topic with somebody who calls fellow fans names because they share a diffferent view point. If you pay attention to the article I put "I will never fall out with other Forest fans for having different opinions. Ultimately we all want success for the club." You however seem intent on making that very difficult. I'll leave you to your bickering but I stand by every word of what was written.

ps If that one wound you up you should read the longer one on the blog

 

[Flaggers]

I am suggesting you present a balanced argument in the first place as opposed to one that claims bias at the outset.

So no-one's allowed to have a single opinion, then? Everyone must present a balanced argument in everything they write?

 

[soulmonkeylove]

Article submitted, article published - comments enabled. Why is that unfair?

You could submit an article to offer your own perspective (which on a personal note I agree with a lot more than the article in question).. and I put it to you, as a member of the LTLF community that in fact it is YOU, or likeminded people to YOU who are abandoning their duty to put their own views across, instead just sniping and making ludicrous accusations on a message board.

We don't as 'the management' promote or accept or necessarily buy into every word that is submitted either to the content site or the forum - but so long as there is no breach in our rules, then that's okay isn't it? You have the right to reply either through commenting or writing your own piece.

If you can't be arsed, I'd say that's your fault rather than ours.

I am not sniping. I am simply saying that if you are going to produce content as a feature for an open forum then it should be balanced and fair to all sides, representing the whole of the argument as opposed to one viewpoint. In publishing one side you are as an entity and whether intended or not, showing bias and support towards that particular argument. It is this which is unfair, both to those whose points you are not representing within the article and to those who read your posts and still have a decision to make.

A biased argument can only push people in one direction unless they have made a decision to the opposite prior to reading the article. As such, an article such as this serves no purpose but to breed the negativity it promotes, hence the trickle down effect which is clearly shaping people's opinions on this site.

Maybe I am just asking for a bit of moderation from the moderators.