[LTLF]A day out at Hillsborough

L

LTLF

Guest
A day out at Hillsborough


For us it was revenge time against our old 1970's rivals Liverpool a repeat of last year's FA Cup Semi Final. We couldn't seem to overtake the Scousers in the League these days, but this side we young and talented and we stood a good chance as regards 'one off' cup ties. In public I [...]


http://www.ltlf.co.uk/forest/2009/02/24/hillsborough-disaster/
 
Flaggers

Flaggers

May not be the best moderator on LTLF, but he's...
LTLF Minion
Just read that article by Gary Roe, and wiped a tear or two from my eyes.

Brought it all back with a thud.

Recommended reading, this, for anyone who was there - and all those who were fortunate enough not to have been.

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B

Boston tree

A. Trialist
No doubt we will be re living that terrible day all over again in the coming weeks.

I do hope that Nottingham Forest do something as a mark of respect to those who died,after all we were the other club in that semi final.
Can't believe that it was 20 years ago.
 
R

RRRREDUN

Jack Burkitt
I went to the Hillsborough disaster. Nobody but nobody wanted that to happen to anyone. I was completely shaken by what I saw.

I just need to get one little (not so little) thing off my chest. At the time, I travelled down from North Wales to as many games as I could. I did get a ticket for the semi. I used to listen occasionally to the local (Scouse) radio and they had a DJ called Billy Butler who did a phone in show. Well, I listened to this show one day after the tickets were allocated. Forest had been allocated about 29,000 and the Scousers had been allocated about 2000 less. It didn't go down too well with the people who were phoning in. Many of them said they were going anyway (EVEN WITHOUT TICKETS!!!). One even boasted that he was going on a bus made up totally of fans without tickets and when questioned, said that he understood that many other buses like that were going too.

Now, I was discussing this with a mate (who I have to admit is a Derby fan). He told me of a time when he went to see Wolves v Liverpool at Wolves (crucial to Derby, if you remember). He couldn't get in because all the turnstiles were shut. Very few people were outside the ground when the air was filled with a thundering noise - Scousers were coming in their hundreds from every street. They charged the gates and my mate was carried into the ground - deposited on his backside. Rumour is - the Scouse did this a lot - any game they couldn't get tickets for, they overwhelmed the police/gatemen etc. and forced their way in. I make no comment other than this - hell - what am I trying to say???? Make up your own minds. How many Scousers in the ground had no tickets???? May the innocents who died RIP.
 
S

stany

Banned
RRRREDUN said:
I went to the Hillsborough disaster. Nobody but nobody wanted that to happen to anyone. I was completely shaken by what I saw.

I just need to get one little (not so little) thing off my chest. At the time, I travelled down from North Wales to as many games as I could. I did get a ticket for the semi. I used to listen occasionally to the local (Scouse) radio and they had a DJ called Billy Butler who did a phone in show. Well, I listened to this show one day after the tickets were allocated. Forest had been allocated about 29,000 and the Scousers had been allocated about 2000 less. It didn't go down too well with the people who were phoning in. Many of them said they were going anyway (EVEN WITHOUT TICKETS!!!). One even boasted that he was going on a bus made up totally of fans without tickets and when questioned, said that he understood that many other buses like that were going too.

Now, I was discussing this with a mate (who I have to admit is a Derby fan). He told me of a time when he went to see Wolves v Liverpool at Wolves (crucial to Derby, if you remember). He couldn't get in because all the turnstiles were shut. Very few people were outside the ground when the air was filled with a thundering noise - Scousers were coming in their hundreds from every street. They charged the gates and my mate was carried into the ground - deposited on his backside. Rumour is - the Scouse did this a lot - any game they couldn't get tickets for, they overwhelmed the police/gatemen etc. and forced their way in. I make no comment other than this - hell - what am I trying to say???? Make up your own minds. How many Scousers in the ground had no tickets???? May the innocents who died RIP.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with what you have typed RRRREDUN, but the fact remains that the police did not set up ticket checks near the ground like they had twelves months earlier. The police knew the scousers had a reputation for this kind of thing. The fixture was not policed correctly and that is where the blame lies in my opinion.
 
Maverick

Maverick

Jack Burkitt
No, no, no!

The Police reacted badly to a set of circumstances caused by some Liverpool fans.

The Police were not the cause.

That is the third time I have broken my vow not to post about this.
 
Rich

Rich

Rice IV
Very good article.

It is somewhat inevitable that there will be heavy discussion about this in the coming weeks, as there has been in the past.

Perhaps it would be best if all comments are restricted to this one thread, and lets try to keep it civil this year.
 
R

RRRREDUN

Jack Burkitt
I just needed to get this off my chest - I feel strongly that a sizeable group of Scousers caused the tragedy, although I feel that plod could have anticipated the problems better. The reluctance to discuss anything about the 'problems' at the Leppings Lane End are brought about by the unbelievable aggression shown by the good folk of Liverpool when anyone wants a debate. The Sun newspaper (in their exocet fashion) published some critical stories at the time and were drowned out by a wail of protest, and even our beloved BC came under attack for his comments. The fact remains that many folk in Liverpool know what the cause of the tragedy was and will not admit it. The end. That's closure for me.
 
W

winnits

Guest
Everything is easier to anticipate with hindsight.

The cause of the problem is still a group of people who require 'non-standard' or extra policing.
 
Rich

Rich

Rice IV
I dispute the fact that the police, or 'plod' as you rather insultingly refer to them, should shoulder the blame here.

I agree with you with the causality of the incident, but I think, as Al has pointed out, the necessity for a higher level of policing doesn't alleviate the Liverpool fans of any blame whatsoever.

The Justice for 96 campagn seems to only want the 'truth' if it blames the police, and takes no responsibility for the fans being the root cause of the problem.
 
R

RRRREDUN

Jack Burkitt
I probably have come over as slightly insulting of our wonderful police force, but they were responsible for anticipating THE WORSE CASE SCENARIA. One of these was surely that some Scouse would try to get up to their tricks (it was, after all, well known that they tried to sneak in to grounds all round the country). Many of us expected them to try to get in regardless - the police obviously hadn't the imagination to do this. Of course - without saying it straight before - I blame the hundreds (maybe thousands) of Scouse who deliberately tried (and succeeded) in overwhelming the police at the Leppings Lane End. Had they not carried out this illegal act, none of those poor people would have died.
 
Rich

Rich

Rice IV
Bring out the gimp Mouldy's Dad and his 'the Liverpool fans did nothing wrong' posts.

They weren't pissed, they had naturally produced alcohol in their systems.
 
DanR

DanR

Steve Chettle
richjcrouch said:
Bring out the gimp Mouldy's Dad and his 'the Liverpool fans did nothing wrong' posts.

They weren't p**sed, they had naturally produced alcohol in their systems.
Click to expand...

Two arguments for the price of one. Brucie Bonus.

The Liverpool fans who died did nothing wrong (supporting Liverpool aside), hopefully the latecomers and queue jumpers have had to wrestle with their conscience for the last 20 years.
 
D

dellaroc

Jack Burkitt
Great, this again.

It really f*cks me off that so many Forest fans have such a hard-on for apportioning blame for what happened that day.

Liverpool fans killed Liverpool fans? Whether that's true or not, the fact that so many Forest fans love to repeat the "fact" with such relish is pathetic.
 
J

JoeBaker

First Team Squad
No official enquiry will ever convince me that a minority of Liverpool fans weren't also responsible for what happened that day. I was 18 and approached the ground from their end and the behaviour of some of their fans was nothing short of disgraceful. Obviously incompetance by senior police officers added to it eg not closing the middle pen off but even then knowing the Liverpool fans of the time they may have tried to rush it. Fences obviously played an important part and I accept you can't put their existence down to just Liverpool but im sorry it was the initial actions of some Liverpool fans that day that set in motion the chain of events that followed and noboy will convince me otherwise. I can only assume that Lord Justice Taylor given the sensitivity around at the time decided that was an avenue he couldn't go down and so a bit of a whitewash accurred with the Police being the main scapegoats.

A minority of Liverpool fans played a part in that disaster and like a lot these events it was the innocent who lost their lives. The it was nothing to with us line will never wash with me
 
R

RRRREDUN

Jack Burkitt
Get a grip Carte Rouge and realise that half of our anger is caused by the bleatings of innocence coming from Merseyside. That's all from me.
 
DanR

DanR

Steve Chettle
Jaune Card Darcheville said:
Great, this again.

It really f*cks me off that so many Forest fans have such a hard-on for apportioning blame for what happened that day.

Liverpool fans killed Liverpool fans? Whether that's true or not, the fact that so many Forest fans love to repeat the "fact" with such relish is pathetic.
Click to expand...

I don't get aroused by apportioning blame for the death of 96 people, but I don't go along with the 'politically correct' (if you will) line that it was all down to the antiquated state of football stadia in the 1980s and Plod making a terrible error. I'd bet that Plod who made that decision has felt bad about the consequences ever since, maybe the ground owners who kept their supporters in no more than glorified prisons for 2 hours every Saturday had some kind of awakening too. I'd hope that the supporters who massed outside the ground at 2.55pm feel some kind of responsibility for their actions.

Look at what has happened since that day to prevent a repeat.
1. Stadia have become all seater, all ticket for large matches. No ticket should equal no entry.
2. Have Liverpool supporters learnt to turn up on time? Not by the evidence of the 2007 European Cup final.

What happened on that day was a terrible event, it should never have been allowed to happen, and all those who take any responsibility for it (quite a lot of people imo, stretching back to the FA and government of the time) should continue to feel shame for the rest of their lives about it.
 
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