Lee Camp

[mouldy]

Counter balanced with Smith walkabout at home against the same team?

Well if you had thousands of people behind you telling you to advance off your line more often would you not want to shut them up after weeks of abuse. It was an error and certainly a bad one but at least you can see why I bet he was just bored of getting stick every week for not coming off his line enough.

Lets not forget Smith getting beaten at his near post against QPR with a straight shot isn't very good positioning either. Burnley away?

At least it is at a post. Down the middle of a goal with low power is unforgiveable and that is the point I am getting at. We conceded more cleansheets under Camp and clean sheets gurantee point(s) at the end of the day. If Smith can keep more then he is doing a better job regardless of errors. The Camp is amazing crap that comes out from people just infuriates me more when they defend that awful goal against Palace.

At the end of the day, I'll be very surprised if Davies doesn't get another keeper in the summer. In fact, it will be a huge mistake not to.

I totally agree with you Smith is an average keeper in this division but we no longer have that option and out the 3 keepers that have been at the club this season he has kept more clean sheets in the same amount of appearances than either so therefore there is no other argument than he is better surely?

 

[Johnny Bravo]

The short mindedness of some people on here is hillarious! Track back to Norwich away, which was Camp's last game for the club. The amount of threads posted after that game expressing disappointment at losing him was overwhelming in showing how high people regarded him. I don't recall that, I remember a lot of threads with people debating if he was really better than Smith or not.

He had a fantastic loan spell here and has been our best 'keeper this year out of himself, Smith and Turner. As the old saying goes, 'time is a great healer' and it appears several people have gradually started to dislike him, in favour of Smith, probably due to the constant bombardment of posts by certain members claiming Smith is the best 'keeper in the league, and the unfair and unfounded ridicule of Camp. That last bit is the funniest thing I've read in a while. Change the name from Camp to Smith though and you may have something. I don't think anyone has ever claimed Smith to be the best goalkeeper in the league either.

To say that Camp's positioning is 'abysmal' is laughable. It really isn't he's always lost in his own box The goal in question at Palace was a shot that he probably should have saved, but how many more costly mistakes did he actually make? One mistake doesn't make you abysmal. No but the many mistakes he made showed his placement to be abysmal, nobody has claimed that he's abysmal overall as a goalkeeper. To blame him for the Coventry goals is ridiculous. How many goals has Smith been at fault for this season. I can tell you now, it will be a lot more than Camp ever did. I'd say Smith has been responsible for less and has played a lot more games, when he has made mistakes they've never really cost us either yet he's saved points for us on plenty of occasions Two different managers (three if you include Pemberton I don't but continue) have chosen to drop Smith in favour of someone else. What does that tell you? That fan pressure effects managers, his confidence was shot to pieves by idiots in the stand criticising him for the littlest things and quite often when he was not at fault, I can't help but laugh when I think about how many tried to put blame on him for Prestons goal at the City Ground! It is a fact that the defence as a unit looked a lot more confident under Camp than they have ever done under Smith. That's just utter bull shit. It's a real poor argument those who dislike Smith use all the time when they're failing to find reasons as to why they don't like him. Reading away, Sheff Utd away and Coventry at home all showed they have more than enough confidence in him. He talks to the players in front of him, So does Smith so as to avoid any confusion. He commands his area a lot better than Smith In what way? and distributes the ball more quickly and effectively than Smith. He really doesn't, Smiths kicking can be poor but so was Camps, there was nothing to aim for upfield except all 4ft2 of Earnshaw and no short options, this has been addressed recently due to us having natural full backs now but the distribution was mainly the fault of outfield players not making themselves available and that goes for Smith and Camp. I for one would be delighted to see him back here next year. If he's back next year it will be a backwards step, especially shelling out £800k for him. There is much better out there and at better prices. If we sign Camp and players of his standard we'll be having a similar season to this, probably worse.

 

[FBS]

It seems the story in today's Mirror may have it's origins in Norwich City's press room...

Why?

 

[It's Baggio]

I refer back to the Palace away goal for anyone who doesn't agree with this. Atroutious goal to concede probably the worst all season straight down the middle of the goal with very little power a 10 year old could've saved that.

...yet Smith let exactly the same sort of goal in at QPR the week before - ball in the middle of the goal, Smith nowhere. He also let in a pea-rolling header from 12 yards at his near post at Preston.

Besides, 'Bad positional sense' is a terribly vague term. What on earth was Smith doing with his positioning when Robbie Blake/Shefki Kuqi lobbed him?

Apart from the Palace game, I can't remember Camp being directly responsible for many other goals. He certainly kept us in many games as well, with some superb saves (not just the penalty ones).

 

[winnits]

QPR at home?

Fortunately, he was in goal for them, though! lol

 

[Baronvon]

...yet Smith let exactly the same sort of goal in at QPR the week before - ball in the middle of the goal, Smith nowhere.

I'm pretty sure that one went in the corner...it might have gone through a few bodies as well but it's been ages since I've seen it so my memory could be fuzzy on that one.

Still, perhaps he could have done better but a goal conceded due to Smith being out of position is very rare indeed. We were quite fortunate that Camp's suspect positioning didn't cost us more than it actually did. Doncaster away being another good example of him being horrendously out of position and he was almost caught out from 30+ yards. We also had a linesman to thank that night too...

I don't think you can put the goal Smith conceded against Palace down to bad positioning either, it was more down to him making a bad decision to come out for it. But again, this sort of mistake is a rarity for Smith.

If we're going to replace Smith we need to get somebody better in, Camp doesn't fit that bill.

 

[Lee]

I'm pretty sure that one went in the corner...it might have gone through a few bodies as well but it's been ages since I've seen it so my memory could be fuzzy on that one.

Still, perhaps he could have done better but a goal conceded due to Smith being out of position is very rare indeed. We were quite fortunate that Camp's suspect positioning didn't cost us more than it actually did. Doncaster away being another good example of him being horrendously out of position and he was almost caught out from 30+ yards. We also had a linesman to thank that night too...

I don't think you can put the goal Smith conceded against Palace down to bad positioning either, it was more down to him making a bad decision to come out for it. But again, this sort of mistake is a rarity for Smith.

If we're going to replace Smith we need to get somebody better in, Camp doesn't fit that bill.

Smith may not make the same mistake often as you point out, its the fact he makes lots of mistakes. Just because they aren't the same, doesn't make him a better keeper than Camp.

I'd definitely put the first Burnley goal down to bad positioning though.

I don't think I'll ever have confidence in Smith after Burnley. It proved to me that sometimes he can't even do some of the basics which are needed when being a keeper. He relies too much on his shot stopping, he hasn't got much else going for him.

Tbh it has got to the point where i don't think i want Camp, he won't get the full support of fans. Someone fresh will be needed. Someone who doesn't punch a cross into Morgan's back i might add...

 

[Baronvon]

Smith may not make the same mistake often as you point out, its the fact he makes lots of mistakes. Just because they aren't the same, doesn't make him a better keeper than Camp.

That's a highly dubious "fact" at the very best. I somehow get the feeling that if a similar standard is applied to most keepers then they'll all be making "lots of mistakes" on a regular basis.

Smith's not perfect by any stretch but "lots of mistakes"? Come on now, the way some talk about him you'd think he was literally throwing them in. Mind you it probably doesn't help Smith's cause to the average fan when a number of his key strengths are in areas that aren't obviously apparent yet are absolutely vital.

 

[Lee]

That's a highly dubious "fact" at the very best. I somehow get the feeling that if a similar standard is applied to most keepers then they'll all be making "lots of mistakes" on a regular basis.

Smith's not perfect by any stretch but "lots of mistakes"? Come on now, the way some talk about him you'd think he was literally throwing them in. Mind you it probably doesn't help Smith's cause to the average fan when a number of his key strengths are in areas that aren't obviously apparent yet are absolutely vital.

Wolves
Crystal Palace
QPR
Burnley

These are games i can think where he made critical mistakes, just off the top of my head.

I'm not even fussed about Camp coming to the club, I just find it hilarious that people think that Smith is a better keeper, i think its more even tbh.

 

[Baronvon]

Wolves
Crystal Palace
QPR
Burnley

These are games i can think where he made critical mistakes, just off the top of my head.

I'm not even fussed about Camp coming to the club, I just find it hilarious that people think that Smith is a better keeper, i think its more even tbh.

Critical mistakes? The QPR one is dubious but for sake of argument I'll give you it. We were already a beaten side in the Palace game and in the Burnley and Wolves game the entire team was shit and we'd have been thoroughly merked anyway. Hardly critical.

Anyway, that's four, three of which had infinitesimal bearing on the result. Not bad considering that most of the season has been spent playing behind a backline with no fullbacks.

Camp's a good goalkeeper but he's not better than Smith, at least not in my opinion. Boom boom.

 

[Lee]

Critical mistakes? The QPR one is dubious but for sake of argument I'll give you it. We were already a beaten side in the Palace game and in the Burnley and Wolves game the entire team was shit and we'd have been thoroughly merked anyway. Hardly critical.

Anyway, that's four, three of which had infinitesimal bearing on the result. Not bad considering that most of the season has been spent playing behind a backline with no fullbacks.

Camp's a good goalkeeper but he's not better than Smith, at least not in my opinion. Boom boom.

I'm sorry but I don't see how the rest of the team being shit on the day is an excuse. It was basic stuff.

The Burnley game could have turned out better IF he had been positioned better. It was the first goal and really put us in the shit straight away.

There was a main reason why I've included QPR but i can't remember.

I wasn't arguing that Camp was better, I said they were on par.

 

[Baronvon]

I'm sorry but I don't see how the rest of the team being shit on the day is an excuse. It was basic stuff.

The Burnley game could have turned out better IF he had been positioned better. It was the first goal and really put us in the shit straight away.

There was a main reason why I've included QPR but i can't remember.

I wasn't arguing that Camp was better, I said they were on par.

It's not an excuse but it was hardly critical. You were there, do you really think that Smith's error was the only reason they lost? And a mistake often does involve getting the basics wrong and it happens to everyone regardless of ability. I've seen Schmeichel scuff a backpass right into the path of a striker, Buffon let one roll under his foot and Tomislav Piplica bizarrely head the ball into his own net. It happens, footballers are only human after all.

I seem to remember you proclaiming Camp as the better of the two not too long ago, what happened? Did my cheque get through?

 

[Lee]

It's not an excuse but it was hardly critical. You were there, do you really think that Smith's error was the only reason they lost? And a mistake often does involve getting the basics wrong and it happens to everyone regardless of ability. I've seen Schmeichel scuff a backpass right into the path of a striker, Buffon let one roll under his foot and Tomislav Piplica bizarrely head the ball into his own net. It happens, footballers are only human after all.

I seem to remember you proclaiming Camp as the better of the two not too long ago, what happened? Did my cheque get through?

I can't really say, you could say it turned the game straight away, you could also say if that hadn't of gone in, Forest might have settled and the outcome might have different, maybe at least respectable. Its all if's and maybe's I know but every player should put in the best performance possible regardless of teammates, if anything they should perform even better to make up for teammates..(e.g. Sheff Utd)

You could tell it was the final straw for Davies though, critical of Smith after the match and got a loanee in.

I do think he is, but i'm mainly trying to be neutral and constructive with my arguments. Its probably not working but meh.

 

[Gary]

Bring back a couple of legends back and we won't have any problems again!

 

[Baronvon]

You could tell it was the final straw for Davies though, critical of Smith after the match and got a loanee in.

I do think he is, but i'm mainly trying to be neutral and constructive with my arguments. Its probably not working but meh.

The break from the firing line did Smith a world of good by the looks of it, plus it helped that Turner was, second half at Barnsley aside, unnervingly error prone. The majority were probably relieved to see Smith back after that.

 

[Erik]

I'm not saying he didn't play well, but a lot of it was down to the centre backs, not him.

I'm sorry but I don't see how the rest of the team being s**t on the day is an excuse.

Not picking on you but here we have the typical argument of the 'Smith is shit' crew in two sentences.

There is no allowance made for the people in front of him whatsoever.

It appears you are saying that when the defence/Smith plays well it's not down to him but when they play badly then it's his fault?

I agree with you, in my limited understanding of goalkeepers there is little in overall ability between Smith and Camp, however, there is a vast difference in the ability of people who have watched them to make a sensible judgement on this.

I think 2 managers looked at the options and decided it was easier to replace 1 goalkeeper with shredded nerves and confidence than 3 defenders in front of him. I also wonder if Smiths' upturn in form has anything to do with the knowledge that he won't have to play with Wilson in front of him again. (Now watch him make a howler on Saturday ).

Smith will probably go in the summer, I have no issue with that, but Lee Camp is not the answer. Lee Camp has been grossly overrated by a good many people both on and off these pages.

 

[Lee]

The break from the firing line did Smith a world of good by the looks of it, plus it helped that Turner was, second half at Barnsley aside, unnervingly error prone. The majority were probably relieved to see Smith back after that.

I'm not so sure, after a good start back, i think he is slipping back..

Not picking on you but here we have the typical argument of the 'Smith is shit' crew in two sentences.

There is no allowance made for the people in front of him whatsoever.

It appears you are saying that when the defence/Smith plays well it's not down to him but when they play badly then it's his fault?

I think you misunderstood me, I'm not saying that as such, i'm saying that he should be able to most of basics required of him, he was f***ing dire that day, didn't catch a cross, got nutmegged for one of their goals. Basic stuff.

I think everyone knew that the whole team played shit, and they are all answerable to their failings in each position/role.

I agree with you, in my limited understanding of goalkeepers there is little in overall ability between Smith and Camp, however, there is a vast difference in the ability of people who have watched them to make a sensible judgement on this.

I think 2 managers looked at the options and decided it was easier to replace 1 goalkeeper with shredded nerves and confidence than 3 defenders in front of him. I also wonder if Smiths' upturn in form has anything to do with the knowledge that he won't have to play with Wilson in front of him again. (Now watch him make a howler on Saturday ).

Smith will probably go in the summer, I have no issue with that, but Lee Camp is not the answer. Lee Camp has been grossly overrated by a good many people both on and off these pages.

I'm not so sure on the Wilson front, because if i'm not mistaken, most of his best games had him playing? (Man City?)

Don't get me wrong, Smith has done well for Forest, but i don't think he is good enough to take us forward. They didn't rate him that well at Southampton, and both managers here have dropped him. He may be doing enough to convince some people on here, but Smith isn't convincing the right people.

 

[Tutts]

Bring back a couple of legends back and we won't have any problems again!

I ended up with about 5 Tommy Wright stickers as a youngster. Nobody wanted him!

 

[Gary]

I ended up with about 5 Tommy Wright stickers as a youngster. Nobody wanted him!

I always had about a billion Jim Magilton stickers.

 

[Erik]

I always had about a billion Jim Magilton stickers.

Swap them for a Roy Keane one.

 

[Oldbighead]

I always had f**king s**t loads of Steve Bruce and Iain Dowie Stickers, Also Peter Beardsley.

I remember John Fashanu being like rocking horse turd.

 

[Luke84]

Yet again Camp did not even make the squad for QPR today! The highlight of his day was to pick someones name out of the hat to win a signed shirt...That must have been fun for him!

I personally think he is worth £1 million, he is young a will develop into a better goalkeeper. Many QPR fans say they would snap your hands off for 800k but I feel he is worth slighly a little more. People in this thread are saying "He can't make the QPR team so he can't be good enough for our team" I think he is good enough for your team, I think he is good enough for many Championship teams, the reason he is not our number 1 goalkeeper is because we have Radek Cerny (I think it was his 19th clean sheet of the season getting him the Golden glove award for most clean sheets as Basso conceeded today).

How about 3 mil for Blackstock and Camp? We might actually be able to buy a striker with that money!

Also just wanted to say congratulations on all but staying up this season, I can't see Norwich beating Reading so it looks like you are safe. Looking forward to another trip to Nottingham next season.

 

[Loughborough_red]

I always had f**king s**t loads of Steve Bruce and Iain Dowie Stickers, Also Peter Beardsley.

I remember John Fashanu being like rocking horse turd.

I remember having Steve Potts in swap about x5. His ugly mug has since been seared into my brain and I can't get rid of it even now 15 years on! :dry: