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Lack of Width

Square Peg

Square Peg

First Team Squad
Playing two central midefielders out wide today was the biggest reason we lost today.

Lewis Mcgugan is not a left winger - the first goal came about because he had drifted in field leaving oceans of space for their right winger to pick his cross. I am not blaming Lewis, I am blaming the system. How many times does Billy moan about square pegs in round holes, then sticks Mcgugan out on the left wing. Pick the system to suit the players, pick the players to fit the system, but don't just shoe horn somebody into an unfamiliar position.

What is the point in playing two big strikers and then not playing wingers to supply width and crosses?

It was no coincidence that we improved when Anderson came on. Not because any of his play was particularly outstanding (far from it), but it provided the team with more balance and width.
 
Anderson, Mcleary, Tyson??. i agree though, you cannot play centre midfielders on the wings because they drift inside and dont create chances out wide.
 
It's something which has been happening for years now (it happened under Megson, Calderwood and now Billy) and has always given us grief, whether it's opposition getting crosses in easily or our full backs being outnumbered and easily worked around.

It also doesn't work because we like our full backs to attack as well and a lot of the time a full back has received the ball and had nobody to pass to because 4 or 5 other players are 30 yards away holding each others hands. It's a style of football which, when it works, is brilliant on the eye, but on the other hand, it has massive flaws if you're not Barcelona or Chelsea.
 
adam09 said:
It's a style of football which, when it works, is brilliant on the eye, but on the other hand, it has massive flaws if you're not Barcelona or Chelsea.
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No problem playing this system as such but if you're going to do it then play the strikers to compliment it i.e. not two strikers who rely on service from the wings like we did yesterday.
 
Tis a fair point. It's good to have this system in our locker for, well, basically for when Earnie is fit. But we do need to have a gameplan that is sustainable if he isn't.
 
Square Peg said:
How many times does Billy moan about square pegs in round holes, then sticks Mcgugan out on the left wing.
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I get really hacked off hearing him moan about square pegs etc. When he has options he sticks square pegs in round holes and round pegs in square holes. If he signed a new square peg I reckon he'd stick it in a round hole.

The best way for him to convince the Chairman to buy some players is to start getting peformances out of the ones he already has.
 
This has been apparent to me at the measly two games I've been able to attend this season, and is surely transparent for any visiting opposition scouts. Combined with the wingers we do have playing on the wrong sides and having to use their weaker foots, we're not as deadly as we could be out wide. Tyson is especially one of the square pegs, while he has the pace of a winger, he's not a very good crosser.
Time Billy changed tactics and tried a different system?
 
I mentioned this on another thread. Why shove two up front then keep wingers on bench? Change the side - change the system to suit.
 
bwb said:
This has been apparent to me at the measly two games I've been able to attend this season, and is surely transparent for any visiting opposition scouts. Combined with the wingers we do have playing on the wrong sides and having to use their weaker foots, we're not as deadly as we could be out wide. Tyson is especially one of the square pegs, while he has the pace of a winger, he's not a very good crosser.
Time Billy changed tactics and tried a different system?
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Right, you start by saying "it is apparent to you" and then you end by telling us "it's time Billy changed his tactics and tried a different system" - so o.k. then, please tell us how he can change tactics (with the staff he has at his disposal) and what other system could he play that would suite you if it is that apparent?

I shall bear it in mind that you have only watched 2 games!!!
 
There have been 10 posts on a thread called 'Lack of width' and not one LTLFer has made a nob joke. Standards really are slipping...
 
Alex said:
There have been 10 posts on a thread called 'Lack of width' and not one LTLFer has made a nob joke. Standards really are slipping...
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I'm just waiting for one titled lack of girth and I'm right in there ..
 
We ain't had a left winger since Commons left. I heard someone called Jermaine Johnson scored on Saturday for Sheffield Wednesday, he wouldn't be a bad option. :p
 
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PSR said:
Right, you start by saying "it is apparent to you" and then you end by telling us "it's time Billy changed his tactics and tried a different system" - so o.k. then, please tell us how he can change tactics (with the staff he has at his disposal) and what other system could he play that would suite you if it is that apparent?

I shall bear it in mind that you have only watched 2 games!!!
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PSR, why do you always go off at the deep end and overreact? First of all I've only managed to make it to 2 games this season, because as I've said before on here I spent 6 months unemployed and job-hunting after uni, at which point desperation to be able to afford to do anything made me get a part-time job at my local supermarket, whilst looking for better jobs. However for this part-time job I have to work until 10pm on Monday's and Wednesday's, and I finish at 6pm on saturday! So I try to make it to every home game that I can on my days off, which so far has been the Leeds, Sheff Utd and will include the M'borough game tomorrow.

Secondly, yes it is apparent, anyone can spot that we're using Cohen all over the place, including on the wing and that Anderson has been made to play 45 mins or so in games on the left, instead of the right, and so he has to cut inside to use his stronger foot. Additionally I said 'Time Billy changed his tactics and used a different system?' with the question mark to start a debate whether changing tactics would be worthwhile with the players we have at the club, especially considering we have quite a few CM's and a lack of wingers at the club. Playing Radi or Lewis behind the strikers has been one way in which Billy has tinkered with his tactics. Also we failed to get either Whittingham or Johnson during the summer to address these problems and Billy decided Boyd wasn't good enough, so we've not been able to add to what we have.

Anything else I need to clarify PSR?
 
PSR said:
Right, you start by saying "it is apparent to you" and then you end by telling us "it's time Billy changed his tactics and tried a different system" - so o.k. then, please tell us how he can change tactics (with the staff he has at his disposal) and what other system could he play that would suite you if it is that apparent?

I shall bear it in mind that you have only watched 2 games!!!
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Blimey, you do go off one one at times don't you? BWB was just opening up a debate on what are the options of other systems.....and yes other options are apparent.

As a difference to Saturdays system, I can think of several:

- 4-4-2 using proper wingers
- 4-4-1-1 with Mcgugan/Raddy playing just off a main striker
- Saturdays system but using strikers to compliment the set up of the team i.e. not big oafs who rely on service from the wings, but strikers who can play abit i.e. Mcgoldrick like he did when he came on
- 4-3-3 using mckenna sitting, with cohen and raddy/mcgugan in front, then anderson and mcleary/tyson on the wings
- 5-3-2/3-5-2 might be worth a try given our lack of wingers. we have two of the best attacking full backs in the divison in gunter and bertrand, why not utilise their attacking prowess as wing backs, playing three centre halfs (morgan, wilson, chambers), a midfield three of mckenna, cohen, mcgugan/raddy, and two strikers.

So there you go PSR, just a few ideas i've had sat here two minutes thinking about it. I'm sure I could think of a few more alternatives, so why can't Billy?

What is apparent is Saturdays system didn't work..... and BWB was right to point that out regardless of how many games he's been to
 
Ive been to a few games this year, when not commited to playing on saturdays and i have to say the style of play in certain areas is very similar to when calderwood was in the hot seat. signs of imbalances in the formation, certain players playing in positions which they dont have the elements in there locker to play there and the most obvious of observations is the lack of options we have when the full back has the ball. Gunter receives the ball and there is no wideman showing the majority of the time. we have not had a geniune wideman since kris commons 2 years ago which is two seasons too long in my opinion. How many teams win anything without a creative wide man? i cant name any.

Paul anderson : good work rate, decent pace, however i feel he lacks quality in possesion and has no left foot.

Nathan Tyson: great work rate, blistering pace and makes good runs however the boy cannot play with his back to goal, first touch is poor and his passing is not good. simple fact is i feel sorry for the guy, he is a last man striker and a good one because once that ball goes through and hes on the end of it you dont see anyone catching him. further more one on ones seem to be his forte. i would love to see this guy back up top for us again playing the role he is best at.

mcleary: signed from non league, may aswell left him there if you ask me. this lad has failed to produce the goods the 3 years hes been there and furthermore i havnt seen any progress or sings that he will ever be worth a starting shirt. the supposed pace evades him once he crosses the white line and his quality in possesion is poor.

Alternatives,

Ryan Bertrand: started life off as a left winger, thats where i would play him and sign a proper left back who can defend and retain possesion. this lad looks lively when he gets forward with good pace. why not play him there?

anthony hammil? saw him last year, thought the lad showed great promise. does anyone know where he is playing?

Ben davies: quality player over the road, surely with notts finnancial situation a deal could be struck easily and personal terms shouldnt be too complicated?

George Boyd: why we didnt sign this guy i will never know? the guy is a quality wideman, exactly what forest are missing.
 
eh shag said:
George Boyd: why we didnt sign this guy i will never know? the guy is a quality wideman, exactly what forest are missing.
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In fairness, after he started the first month of this season on fire, you'd hardly know he'd been in the Posh team since. Utterly anonymous...
 
Square Peg said:
No problem playing this system as such but if you're going to do it then play the strikers to compliment it i.e. not two strikers who rely on service from the wings like we did yesterday.
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Spot on , it was hard at Barnsley as they just kept counter attacking and with our 'wide players' drifting in. e.g Mcgugan for his goal, the space is there for them to exploit.
 
If we were to sign a left winger we still wouldn't play to wingers as Billy would just push Cohen over to the other wing and drop Ando/Tys

We could rip teams apart with a midfield of

Tyson Cohen Mcgugan Ando

At home we could get away with that if Mcgugan and Cohen can do the work tracking back, after all Cohen is a centre mid and Mckenna is starting to frustrate me when all his 'experience' ends up in a stupid hoof to nobody!
 
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