Jealous Sheep

[Ravi]

Fed up of the jealousy over our league position so far this season, and especially NLN's bullshit that Forest are 'big spenders'.
So I had to bite.... ;D

http://forums.therams.co.uk/thread.jspa?messageID=583389#583389

 

[bad dog]

Who gives a f*** about them and there delusions? Why bother?

 

[Earnie]

Fed up of the jealousy over our league position so far this season, and especially NLN's bulls**t that Forest are 'big spenders'.
So I had to bite.... ;D

http://forums.therams.co.uk/thread.jspa?messageID=583389#583389

Forest are big spenders in the sense that they have transfer funds made available by Nigel Doughty. He doesn't give that money as a gift or by issuing shares; it's put in as a loan. In the last accounts which refer to around 18 months ago, the debt to Doughty was around £40million and has almost certainly increased significantly since then. Derby don't have a sugar daddy, don't have those spending resources. Most of the parachute payments was spent on "f off" money, i.e. getting rid of useless highly-paid players like Claude Davies.

 

[NFFC92]

Do you seriously think ND will suddenly ask for all this money back? This club isn't just a toy for him like some other clubs are. Doughty isn't thick, he wouldn't have just pumped money into the club to get us back on track, then just ask for it back. He wipped our debt and is now slowly rebuilding us and trying to get us back into the premier league. Why would he achieve all this, just to put us back to square one? Doughty is a fan of the club, unlike all the yank owners, which is huge advantage for us.

 

[sedgred]

Forest are big spenders in the sense that they have transfer funds made available by Nigel Doughty. He doesn't give that money as a gift or by issuing shares; it's put in as a loan. In the last accounts which refer to around 18 months ago, the debt to Doughty was around £40million and has almost certainly increased significantly since then. Derby don't have a sugar daddy, don't have those spending resources. Most of the parachute payments was spent on "f off" money, i.e. getting rid of useless highly-paid players like Claude Davies.

Total speaking out of your rectum.

Doughty owns Forest, Lock Stock and Smoking Barrels.............So he loans money to himself, as owner he wants to take care of that money...because it has come out of his own pocket. There are tax liability reasons why a small % is charged on a loan for personal use.

On a domestic scale it is like switching money from your holiday account to pay a car repair bill. Where it come from is irrelevant, as long as the debt is serviceable. Simple really, even Derby fans should not have any problems understanding that, even through the green eyes they view us with

 

[Randy Bumgardener]

Forest are big spenders in the sense that they have transfer funds made available by Nigel Doughty. He doesn't give that money as a gift or by issuing shares; it's put in as a loan. In the last accounts which refer to around 18 months ago, the debt to Doughty was around £40million and has almost certainly increased significantly since then. Derby don't have a sugar daddy, don't have those spending resources. Most of the parachute payments was spent on "f off" money, i.e. getting rid of useless highly-paid players like Claude Davies.

Definitely a Derby fan !

 

[Daniel]

Definitely a Derby fan Cock !

;D

 

[Earnie]

Do you seriously think ND will suddenly ask for all this money back? This club isn't just a toy for him like some other clubs are. Doughty isn't thick, he wouldn't have just pumped money into the club to get us back on track, then just ask for it back. He wiped our debt and is now slowly rebuilding us and trying to get us back into the premier league. Why would he achieve all this, just to put us back to square one? Doughty is a fan of the club, unlike all the yank owners, which is huge advantage for us.

Yes, I agree with all that. It is known as soft debt a la Abramovich (who has now converted his debt to shares).

I suppose the difficulty comes when Nigel Doughty wants to give up his ownership. That may be many years hence but it will certainly happen one day. This means that NFFC is worth nothing because the liabilities far outweigh the assets.

It's all good luck to Forest to have a benefactor and every club wishes they had one. Personally, I'm not sure what the best business model for a club is although I do know that the models employed by Liverpool and Manyoo are A Bad Thing.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I'm pretty sure if shit was to hit the fan then someone would be willing to invest a sum near to the debt we owe to Nigel. We have a squad which is easily worth £20m as it stands, plus a fantastic youth set up and potential for far, far greater things.
The Derby fans who claim it's "promotion or admin" for us is frankly ridiculous. Wishful thinking for a set of fans who are getting so used to failure that they take interest in what they believe is their rival clubs financial problems.

Also, we may be big spenders, but aside from the past couple of seasons how much have we spent exactly?
Aside from Riccy Scimeca who set us back £3m almost a decade ago and more recently Chris Cohen for £1m whilst we were in League One, we've hardly spent big. Danny Sonner, Nicky Eaden, Rune Pederson, Scott Dobie, Alan Rogers, Andy Impey, Gary Holt, Grant Holt, Junior Agogo blah blah f***ing blah are the types of players who (are incredibly shite) have been part of the first eleven for the last 5 or 6 years, probably costing the club a total of £1m.
At the same time, we've lost players like Dawson and Reid who were sold to keep the club away from financial trouble.

Upon promotion whereby the revenue increase from TV is stated at around £8m, we've spent well within our means. Our wage bill continues to be low in comparison to the clubs of our size and stature - estimate average of around £5k per week.

How this constitutes to Forest being on the brink of financial ruin I don't know, nor do I care. The Sheep fans are welcome to try and dig for something that doesn't exist as long as they want. We'll happily wave them goodbye as we go up (whether this season or in the future) and they continue to be an embarrasment to football.

Not going to comment on their American owners and the complaints the fans are dishing out as I don't know enough about their situation. One day sheep fans might take the same attitude.

UP THE REDS.

 

[Spring Heeled Jack]

Who gives a f**k about them and there delusions? Why bother?

Spot on.

f*** 'em. Let them enjoy their DVD's of their cup final from Saturday, and we can focus on doing what we have done best this season, battering the opposition, starting all over again with Sheffield Wednesday tomorrow.

 

[Gary]

f*** em.

 

[OnsideBrianRice]

I'm pretty sure if s**t was to hit the fan then someone would be willing to invest a sum near to the debt we owe to Nigel.

Absolutley no chance. Doughty would end up writing off a lot of cash if he sold Forest.
Doesnt the amount he has 'loaned' the club stand at £40m or more?

Let me give you an example.....You buy a Citroen Saxo for £2,000, spend £10,000 on chavving it up, big exhaust, tinted windows etc....Do you reckon you can sell it for £12,000???
Not a chance, you sell if for what someone is prepared to pay you for it. Simples.

 

[DapperDan]

Let me give you an example.....You buy a Citroen Saxo for £2,000, spend £10,000 on chavving it up, big exhaust, tinted windows etc....Do you reckon you can sell it for £12,000???
Not a chance, you sell if for what someone is prepared to pay you for it. Simples.

Sounds like a sweet ride. Will you take £3,500 cash?

 

[sedgred]

But buying a Citroen Saxo and spending money on it, is exactly the same as buying Derby Co. No sane person would do it

 

[Ravi]

But buying a Citroen Saxo and spending money on it, is exactly the same as buying Derby Co. No sane person would do it

If you were an Amercan business consortium, and if you could buy the Saxo on the cheap, put in cheaper fuel, economy tyres and only do short journeys, you'd be able to sell it to some other mug er.. owners in a few years for a small profit, or maybe just to cut your losses. :wink:

 

[EmJay]

Who gives a f*** about them and there delusions? Why bother?

Man has a point. If they want to believe that there season has been anything other than a disaster so far, and ours anything but a success, then let them, because you would have to be delusional to think anything else (and that's not to say that there's still a lot of time for that to change)

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Absolutley no chance. Doughty would end up writing off a lot of cash if he sold Forest.
Doesnt the amount he has 'loaned' the club stand at £40m or more?

Let me give you an example.....You buy a Citroen Saxo for £2,000, spend £10,000 on chavving it up, big exhaust, tinted windows etc....Do you reckon you can sell it for £12,000???
Not a chance, you sell if for what someone is prepared to pay you for it. Simples.

You can hardly compare the value of a car to a football club. :blink:

Forest are on the brink of the £60m-a-year Premiership. We have a young squad which is ever increasing in value, a well regarded youth academy as well as the prestige which comes with winning the biggest prize in Europe.

Three years ago our destinated to fail club was probably worth the same value as one of ForestDanny123's posts. Now we're probably worth our weight in Rich's cock.

If you really do want to use the car metaphor, then it goes more like this:
I paid my mate £5K to get a mechanic to make my Mazda look like a Ferrari. The mechanic realised he didn't have the necessary skills to complete the job so he thought "f*** it" and went and bought a ferrari instead.
Mate gave me the keys to my new motor and I gave him the £5k.
Some blokes who are driving scooters from a nearby city try to make themselves feel better claiming that I'm in financial ruin as I owe £5k.

 

[Earnie]

Man has a point. If they want to believe that there season has been anything other than a disaster so far, and ours anything but a success, then let them, because you would have to be delusional to think anything else (and that's not to say that there's still a lot of time for that to change)

No, I don't think Derby fans think that at all. Forest have had an excellent season after a slow start and Derby's has been a lot worse than expected. There are some pluses, beating Forest being one of them and the possibility of a good F.A. Cup run. Maybe they will try to close Birmingham down and knock that off their stride like they did last week.

By the way, the last NFFC accounts cover the year to 31st May 2008, when the income was £7.6million and the loss was £6.6million. I think the next accounts must be submitted by next month. There are no shareholders funds but a shareholders deficit of £35.7million. There's a loan to Nigel Doughty of £40million which carries a small interest charge.

Good luck to Forest with Doughty's money. It's certainly not a sport where it's easy to make a profit.

 

[Le Juif Rouge]

But buying a Citroen Saxo and spending money on it, is exactly the same as buying Derby Co. No sane person would do it

There's nowt wrong with Citroen! (unlike Direby)

 

[ShakeyRed]

Fed up of the jealousy over our league position so far this season, and especially NLN's bullshit that Forest are 'big spenders'.
So I had to bite.... ;D

http://forums.therams.co.uk/thread.jspa?messageID=583389#583389

I've looked on that forum a few times but everytime i do i feel after 5-10 minutes of reading i find myself looking for the over 10's forum.

They all believe they are intellectual where business finance is concerned but i wouldn't trust them to look after their own pocket money.

There is no wonder NCNLN always sounds like a errrrrr moron errrrrrr in every interview, he is trying to lower himself to that level.

 

[Strummer]

If you really do want to use the car metaphor, then it goes more like this:
I paid my mate £5K to get a mechanic to make my Mazda look like a Ferrari. The mechanic realised he didn't have the necessary skills to complete the job so he thought "f**k it" and went and bought a ferrari instead.
Mate gave me the keys to my new motor and I gave him the £5k.
Some blokes who are driving scooters from a nearby city try to make themselves feel better claiming that I'm in financial ruin as I owe £5k.

You should be an economist - but your analogy is not far off the mark.

Mr. Doughty *loans* money to the club because for tax reasons, it is better to do so. A "gift" of funds is taxable; a "loan" of funds is not (as the tax is paid on the capital gains when the loaner gets his/her money back...)

Regardless - and I'll say it again - I would, for the next 100 years, rather have a genuine 'fan' owning the club (like our Chairman) instead of a bunch of "investors" who are only looking for a return on their money, and probably couldn't find D***y on a map.

Unlike our Chairman, who was born in Newark, and is a life-long fan of the club.

I know whose ground I'd rather be in!

 

[winnits]

I know whose ground I'd rather be in!

Damn right, Pride Park is a shithole

 

[Strummer]

Damn right, Pride Park is a s**thole

You are not wrong there.

It's a dump, and the inbreds who congregate there make it worse!

 

[adamthered]

Probably thought about before, but what about this one....

Doughty "loans" the money to us. If someone comes to buy us, he can get his money back plus extra. but, if we are in trouble and we need to pay it back, he then writes it off, or most of anyway? No-one in their right mind would pump money (that amount anyway) into a business with no forethought on getting it back. When Doughty "bought" us, we weren't exactly flying high winning everything in our path, so common sense says he has a plan to get it back. And why can't he just be a mad eccentric who wants to give it us for free, like those crazy old folk who leave their money to their kitten puddles so he can be looked after?

Rant, kind of, over! lol

 

[Strummer]

Probably thought about before, but what about this one....

Doughty "loans" the money to us. If someone comes to buy us, he can get his money back plus extra. but, if we are in trouble and we need to pay it back, he then writes it off, or most of anyway? No-one in their right mind would pump money (that amount anyway) into a business with no forethought on getting it back. When Doughty "bought" us, we weren't exactly flying high winning everything in our path, so common sense says he has a plan to get it back. And why can't he just be a mad eccentric who wants to give it us for free, like those crazy old folk who leave their money to their kitten puddles so he can be looked after?

Rant, kind of, over! lol

OK - Nigel Doughty is two things:

1) extremely rich, and
2) a Forest fan

he has sunk (approx) £47m in to the club. From his own pocket.

Now, *if* we were to gain promotion, the club would receive (at conservative estimates) something in the region of £50m-£60m per season. So, in effect, our Chairman - if he wanted to - could make his money "back".

However, you get the feeling he is in it for the long haul; granted, if Sheikh Mearmoff (or someone) came in and offered him silly money, he might take it, but then again, he might not.

This is the same man who under-wrote our spending last summer, with no guarantee of success; the same Chairman who under-wrote our debts whilst we wallowed in League One.

Whilst he has "loaned" the club a huge amount of money he may - or may not - miss that money. Yes he is a businessman, but he is also a fan - and there are very few Chairman who can claim that.