Is Wes Morgan actually any good?

[weasel]

Hear me out please. Wes is a bit of a cult hero these days, and his attitude and commitment are rarely in question. (Kelvin Wilson could do worse than behave like his mate sometimes)

However, does this sort of thing stop us being able to judge his actual ability? Is he actually as good as people make out?

I don't think so personally. I think he's good at getting his head on the ball, but pretty poor in terms of actual heading ability. You see this most often when he's attacking, rarely does he score or even get a header on target. It just bounces tamely off his head in a random direction. His passing is equally as poor. He's got a right shovel foot on him, and I just don't think it's good enough, not at Championship level anyway. I cringe when he plays a 'long pass' aka a shovel up field.

Also, is it any coincidence that ever since he became a mainstay in the side we've got through a horrendous patch? Is it any coincidence that you never hear anyone interested in signing him? People have a good laugh at him going on mazy runs up the field, but I'd happily sacrifice watching that for someone who was actually better at defending.

Just my opinion.

 

[Darth Pierre]

yes

end thread

 

[Benchwarmer]

Cult hero?

Not as good as Psycho.

 

[weasel]

Cult hero?

Not as good as Psycho.

No not as good as Psycho indeed. Can you believe we had a defence of Pearce, Chettle, Cooper and Laws in this league? No b****y wonder we went up!

 

[Rich]

It's a bit harsh to judge him on his ability to head a ball on target. That's a bit like saying Rob Earnshaw isn't a great goalkeeper.

Wes is very good at the things he needs to be, which tend to be defending physically.

Like you said, he's very good at getting his head on a ball, which is pretty vital for a defender. His 'shovel foot' approach clears the ball, and his strength makes him difficult to attack against.

I remember reading a 'that boys a bit special' about some striker (think it was Billy Sharp or someone like that) who listed Morgan as the hardest defender to he'd played against (I'm guessing this was when he was at Scunthorpe, of course).

 

[Benchwarmer]

No not as good as Psycho indeed. Can you believe we had a defence of Pearce, Chettle, Cooper and Laws in this league? No b****y wonder we went up!

And having a defence of Morgan, Wilson, Chambers and Lynch nearly sent us down!!!

 

[Jonno]

Any good?

Yeh he is. Best centre back at the club IMO. Althought I would say PErch plays very well whenever he plays there.

Wes does everything asked of him, blocks, heads, clearances. And at times last season he was the main organiser at the back.

Still first choice I'd say.

 

[lancecunno]

i'd imagine he's a nightmare to play against, and he's certainly good enough for the championship. Admitidly, there are better defenders out there, but he's still solid.

He does everything he needs to. He can tackle, he can mark, he can win headers and he's f***ing strong.

 

[Cooky]

Wes and Chambers played very well together as they have different approaches to the game;

Wes is big and physical, where as Chambers is good with his feet and can pick out a pass. Wes does a job for us and a good one. Depending on our signings, he may not be first choice next season, but alongside a "footballing" defender, he shines in my opinion

 

[It's Baggio]

Wes had a good season last year, the pick of our defence.

However, I find it a little odd that he's become almost criticism free, whilst nearly every other member of the defence (and 'keeper) constantly get berated. When in all honestly the disparity between their respective levels of performance isn't that different.

 

[Benchwarmer]

If we had to strengthen each area of defence (permanent current players only), Wes would be the final person to improve upon.

Should we sign Gunter, Lynch and hopefully Barker from Blackpool, we'll certainly have a strong and strength in-depth defence for the coming season..

RB: Chambers, Perch, Gunter
LB: Bennett, Lynch, Gunter
CB: Chambers, Perch, Lynch, Wilson, Morgan, Barker

 

[weasel]

It's a bit harsh to judge him on his ability to head a ball on target. That's a bit like saying Rob Earnshaw isn't a great goalkeeper.

Wes is very good at the things he needs to be, which tend to be defending physically.

Like you said, he's very good at getting his head on a ball, which is pretty vital for a defender. His 'shovel foot' approach clears the ball, and his strength makes him difficult to attack against.

I remember reading a 'that boys a bit special' about some striker (think it was Billy Sharp or someone like that) who listed Morgan as the hardest defender to he'd played against (I'm guessing this was when he was at Sc**thorpe, of course).

I read that article too, and seem to recall him saying 'Chris Morgan of Nottingham Forest: He's a big dude!' But yes, I got the gist.

I don't however accept the Earnshaw comparison. Morgan doesn't need to head it on target as such, but it would help if he actually cleared it a bit better when defending. It just seems to go off his head in any which way, rather then say Michael Dawson or Ian Breckin who would head it up and away like you're supposed to.

I think he's a lower Championship standard player, and if we were 'serious about promotion' *ahem* we could do with two new solid, more talented centre halves like the real Chris Morgan. Or even just one now Breckin has retired, because for me as long as we've got two defenders in there who can't even slightly pass the ball we aren't gonna get very far.

 

[Rich]

I read that article too, and seem to recall him saying 'Chris Morgan of Nottingham Forest: He's a big dude!' But yes, I got the gist.

Yes! I remember that!

I don't however accept the Earnshaw comparison. Morgan doesn't need to head it on target as such, but it would help if he actually cleared it a bit better when defending. It just seems to go off his head in any which way, rather then say Michael Dawson or Ian Breckin who would head it up and away like you're supposed to.

I think he's a lower Championship standard player, and if we were 'serious about promotion' *ahem* we could do with two new solid, more talented centre halves like the real Chris Morgan. Or even just one now Breckin has retired, because for me as long as we've got two defenders in there who can't even slightly pass the ball we aren't gonna get very far.

Fair enough points.

I think in terms of replacing defenders, I'd replace Wilson before Morgan.

 

[weasel]

Wes and Chambers played very well together as they have different approaches to the game;

Wes is big and physical, where as Chambers is good with his feet and can pick out a pass. Wes does a job for us and a good one. Depending on our signings, he may not be first choice next season, but alongside a "footballing" defender, he shines in my opinion

I'd go along with that actually. We could probably get away with Wes playing alongside a footballing defender, as you shrewdly put it, but to start with say Wilson and Morgan in defence was probably Calderwood's biggest error last season and we really shouldn't do it again. Seems Billy knows this though, hence the bids for Mills (and Jones)

 

[Marshall.]

Best defender at the club!

 

[jimbo]

just prone to having 'the blinkers come down' as my dad says

 

[longeatonreds]

In all fairness I'd say that Chambers is up there with him, at centre half that is. Chambers is clearly not a right back, he doesn't have the pace to get up and down the wing quickly enough and is often beaten far too easily. However he wins the majority of headers, clears but also isn't afraid to bring the ball down and play. Could be a useful partnership however I agree we do need a new Central Defender which should be a high priority this summer!

 

[sedgred]

A couple of fans I have talked to from opposition sides rated him, suprised they had not heard more about him. I think his gait, which is somewhat clumsy in appearence disguises his ability. Maybe never going to be a Premier League footballer, but always capable at this level.

I get angry at the amount of undeserved ( In my opinion ) stick, he gets, but thats why we are Forest fans. Some player has to be the target of abuse, Wes is a big lad so why not pick on him. I love to see the bloke in a Forest shirt

 

[Anti]

He's ok but I think a lot of our fans over hype him. He still regularly looks like bambi on ice when he has the ball at his feet and he constantly jumps through the back of opposing players to win headers, I'm suprised he doesn't give away more free kicks. He just needs to learn to chill out

 

[Bridgfordred79]

I do think wes is a good defender, but not just that.
I remember against D***y in the league at home, everybody else(aside mccleary) had given up, but Wesley went on runs in to the final third which spurred the team and crowd up. That is what captains do, and does wilson do that? no, that is why wes should be captain- he dont give up.

 

[weasel]

A couple of fans I have talked to from opposition sides rated him, suprised they had not heard more about him. I think his gait, which is somewhat clumsy in appearence disguises his ability. Maybe never going to be a Premier League footballer, but always capable at this level.

I get angry at the amount of undeserved ( In my opinion ) stick, he gets, but thats why we are Forest fans. Some player has to be the target of abuse, Wes is a big lad so why not pick on him. I love to see the bloke in a Forest shirt

I'm surprised you think this way. I have rarely ever heard him receiving 'abuse' and he'll certainly get none from me. Quite the contrary to what you're saying, I'm wondering why he doesn't receive any criticism.

I'm just questioning whether he's good enough, after all weve been pretty dire since he started playing for us and it's a fair question.

 

[Benchwarmer]

I'm surprised you think this way. I have rarely ever heard him receiving 'abuse' and he'll certainly get none from me. Quite the contrary to what you're saying, I'm wondering why he doesn't receive any criticism.

I'm just questioning whether he's good enough, after all weve been pretty dire since he started playing for us and it's a fair question.

He got alot of abuse after the Yeovil encounter!!!

 

[RRRREDUN]

I like Wes but what we have been missing for years IMHO is a big bloke at the back who can win the ball in the air CLEANLY every time. Wes can get to it against most opponents but to do so he has to stretch every sinew. A really big guy might help us to clear the ball more effectively. Perhaps Mills or someone with Wes alongside. We have played (I know with midgets up front) against some centre backs who are rocks and never seem to be troubled in the air.

 

[Jonno]

I like Wes but what we have been missing for years IMHO is a big bloke at the back who can win the ball in the air CLEANLY every time. Wes can get to it against most opponents but to do so he has to stretch every sinew. A really big guy might help us to clear the ball more effectively. Perhaps Mills or someone with Wes alongside. We have played (I know with midgets up front) against some centre backs who are rocks and never seem to be troubled in the air.

I know what you're saying, the way Dawson used to outjump just about EVERYONE is something we've not seen since, well. Michael Dawson.

Breckin came close when in League One.

 

[Cooky]

Dawson really was brilliant for us. like you say, he really could outjump anyone. He is probably our biggest loss in recent times. I'd put getting rid of him and Kevin Campbell a few years before as major, major mistakes that set the wheels in motion for some dire times.