If not now then when?

[mr happy]

Yesterday I watched a team play fluent attacking football to repeatedly carve up what many would argue to be the divisions top team, packed to the brim with suposedly premiership quality players. I also witnessed a side completely shut up shop in the second half to deny Newcastle a goal and in spite of them coming out to have a really good go at us limit them to very few genuine chances.

So why is it today that all I keep hearing is forest aren't ready for promotion? Our manager is at pains to stress we are not the finished article, and there seems to be an attitude among the fans that we don't want a promotion until we are in a position where we could stay up.
My question is what do we need to put in place in order to make us ready?

Players?:
Surely if we did achieve the unthinkable this season given Doughtys record on transfers this summer then there would be money available to strengthen an already promising young squad. One might even say that not going up could mean loosing some of our top performers on the back of a decent season. Premiership status allows a club to attract, afford, and retain better players. I don't buy into the argument that the squad isn't good enough to compete at the top level as realistically very few championship squads are without the investment that comes from actually getting there. Also we have no idea as to the potential of our current crop, we have some very promising players and I wouldn't bet against a few of them making the step up.

Infrastructure?:
Whatever you may think of the city ground being re-developed/replaced, I don't think many would argue that in its current state it would be a perfectly adequate home in the top division. In fact any potential re-development is surely dependant on the financial rewards promotion brings. Our training facillities are top notch and we have good backroom staff that in my oppinion are doing a great job in maximising the performances of and improving our playing staff. Players frequently cite the reason they joined us as being that everything here is geared towards getting to the prem. What else do we need in this respect?

Finances?:
We have a chairman who has effectively removed the clubs debts. Yes I realise that the debt still exists in the form of chairmans loans to the club but as long as he is in charge it isn't something we have to worry about. One of the benefits of the having a fan as a chairman is that we know he has the best interests of the club at heart rather than our club being reduced to just some investment opportunity for a foreign tycoon, or a billionaires play thing. Anyone questioning his commitment only needs to look at our transfer expenditure over the last few seasons where we have consistantly spent big compared to other sides at our level. I would actually rate our Financial status as more stable than a lot of premiership sides.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not expecting promotion, I realise that we are barely a quarter of the way into the season and have a long way ahead of us during which time we will undoubtably have a dip in form/injuries. I'd be more than happy with a top half finish and still think that is the most realistic prospect for us. Fair play to Billy who is trying to keep the players feet on the ground and expectation levels in check, he's bound to play down our chances.

What I can't understand is our fans who say they don't want promotion yet because we aren't ready. How ready were Burnley/Stoke/Hull? We seem to be fearing the premiership purely based on Direby's example of how not to aquit yourselves. This is completely the wrong mentality to take in my oppinion, I say forget about that rabble of shite and start believing in our own ability. I don't remember any of this anxiousness about promotion in our 2002/2003 push so why now? Were we really any more 'ready' then? Simple answer is no.

At the end of the day promotion may be beyond us this season but if our fans can stay positive and keep the belief that we are good enough to get a result against anyone in this division then that winning mentality is sure to transmit to the players and who knows what might be possible. And if we do manage it lets not worry about what the sheep molesters did, because we aren't them. We are Nottingham forest, Nottingham forest FC, By far the greatest team that you'l ever see.

 

[Bridgfordred79]

agree about Doughty.

 

[dbarraclough]

I think that the notion of "we're not ready to go up" is one of the greatest myths to curse fans. My idea is to push and go for promotion whenever you get the chance. That chance may not come round for another decade. I agree that if we were to go up, then it would be tough to stay there but not impossible.
Had Stoke not gone up when they did, would they be more ready this year? Maybe, but maybe they'd be scraping around at the bottom with the likes of D*rby and Ipswich. The same could be said of Hull and Burnley.
I can remember about 10 years ago a Preston fan said he hopes they don't go up because not ready. When is a club like that ever ready?
Take all you can get, be sensible financially and hope like hell you can get a foothold

 

[andover red]

I think that the notion of "we're not ready to go up" is one of the greatest myths to curse fans.

Totally agree with that.

I think the reason for the caution is simply people not wanting expectations to become unrealistic at this early stage. I'm still not convinced we're good enough to get promoted - let alone stay there. However, if this burst of good form and results continues and sees us push into a solid top six place into the New Year, expect Billy and everyone else get a lot more bullish about our chances.

 

[dbarraclough]

Just checked the odds to win the league outright 12/1, promotion 7/2 with Skybet. That has us finishing around 5th! The thing I can't get my head around is that we're 250/1 to win the FA cup with teams like Coventry 200/1 and Reading 150/1 above us. In fact odds wise we're seen as one of the worst teams in our division :blink:
I'm not a betting man... but less chance than Coventry????

http://www.skybet.com/skybet?action=GoEvType&id=25

 

[mouldy]

I think we don't have a squad ready for promotion I think going up this year would then require massive financial investment and if it did go tits up then we would be in some serious trouble if we went down and failed to get back up again.

We would need new players in all areas. I cannot see too many players in our squad who I believe could make the step up to premiership football.

Massive investment in a new squad would mean:

a) a new look team looking for time to gel we wouldn't get that time in the premiership would we
b) the massive financial investment would mean that we'd HAVE to stay up because otherwise the debts would start to creep back in. Look at the Southampton's and Leeds of recent times both now in the basement divisions with massive financial issues because they couldn't afford the major wages that they'd brought down a division with them and that they couldn't get rid of.

This season I just feel it's too much of a risk in promotion relegation would be expected if we didn't strengthen sufficiently. But making a real good go of it next season is a massive risks considering the potential long term consequences.

If you think of a continual strengthening over 2 or 3 years you have a balanced gelled squad with some premiership talent in it all you would surely require is a few additions to make that squad survivals in the top division? The long term plan is just so much more worthwhile doing. And I can understand and would rather promotion came then.

However to finish 1st this year I will not be complaining. If we went to the play offs this year I would expect to win.

 

[andyred]

I totally agree but in truth I think this "we're not ready" line comes from fans not wanting to get carried away talking about promotion. If we do keep this form and are around the top 6 at the end of the season and chasing a play off final spot at Wembley watch people's attitue change.

I can't believe any fan of any team wouldn't take promotion if it were on offer.

 

[incapable hulk]

What I can't understand is our fans who say they don't want promotion yet because we aren't ready. How ready were Burnley/Stoke/Hull? We seem to be fearing the premiership purely based on Direby's example of how not to aquit yourselves. This is completely the wrong mentality to take in my oppinion, I say forget about that rabble of s**te and start believing in our own ability. I don't remember any of this anxiousness about promotion in our 2002/2003 push so why now? Were we really any more 'ready' then? Simple answer is no.

At the end of the day promotion may be beyond us this season but if our fans can stay positive and keep the belief that we are good enough to get a result against anyone in this division then that winning mentality is sure to transmit to the players and who knows what might be possible. And if we do manage it lets not worry about what the sheep molesters did, because we aren't them. We are Nottingham forest, Nottingham forest FC, By far the greatest team that you'l ever see.

Completely agree mate. I honestly wouldnt care if we did a derby (although im honest enough to admit that if we did, I'd probably feel very differently!). I just want to see my club back playing the best teams in the land week in week out.

Not sure about the city ground in its current state being adequate for the top flight, as the main stand is embarrassing. Sad to say, as I love sitting in there and the atmosphere but looking at it, and also in regards to its facilities like the dressing room etc....its definitely an area that needs sorting sooner rather than later.

Though I guess that wont be sorted till they finally decide if we are moving or not.

 

[Erik]

I totally agree but in truth I think this "we're not ready" line comes from fans not wanting to get carried away talking about promotion. If we do keep this form and are around the top 6 at the end of the season and chasing a play off final spot at Wembley watch people's attitue change.

I can't believe any fan of any team wouldn't take promotion if it were on offer.

We're on a great run at the moment and yesterday's performance and result was fantastic. Keep it going until May and we'll be ready.

 

[mr happy]

Completely agree mate. I honestly wouldnt care if we did a derby (although im honest enough to admit that if we did, I'd probably feel very differently!). I just want to see my club back playing the best teams in the land week in week out.

Not sure about the city ground in its current state being adequate for the top flight, as the main stand is embarrassing. Sad to say, as I love sitting in there and the atmosphere but looking at it, and also in regards to its facilities like the dressing room etc....its definitely an area that needs sorting sooner rather than later.

Though I guess that wont be sorted till they finally decide if we are moving or not.

Thing is I genuinely don't think we'd do a derby. There were all sorts of factors involved in them becoming the worst team in history, not least the fact that they were shite. Even during their promotion season they were very lucky in a lot of games, they made the most of very limited ability and got found out in a higher league. The contrast between ourselves and them could not be greater, we have been playing some very decent football and the potential in the side is there for all to see. I see us as more like Preston under Davies than his derby team.

I know what your saying about the main stand and it definately needs re-developing at some point, what i meant is if we got into the prem we have a functional 30,000 seater stadium which I believe is big enough to sustain the club in the short to mid term. Cmon if turf moor, the KC, the JJB, fratton park, and the Britania are sufficient for the prem then the CG can't be that bad.

 

[goatboy]

Frank Clarke took a team that needed half a season to get together straight up, signed few new players and finished third. All we need to do if we find ourselves in the Premiership next season is make any key signings, but ensure they are signings that'll follow us back down, so then we keep the team together. If we stay up, fine. If we go back down, we've got parachute payments to strengthen again and back up we theoretically go, this time richer, more experienced and more tightly knit as a team.

We've long had the skill to do a Premiership team on our day, witness Man City and so on, even bloody Sporting. What we've lacked is the nous, experience, ability to operate as a unit and cover for injuries. We're getting this in bloody short order from the Davies administration. Few more signings, thirty or so more games under our belt and we'll be a different proposition, unless there's a slump and we or any of our competitors could have one.

 

[Annesley Red]

Billy's throwing a bit of corn down to the other managers

 

[RICH1977]

thing is how many of our current crop of players would be happy to stay another season of not being ready for the prem?

thats the only thing that concerns me is if we dont go up then the likes of raddy,dex,gunter,ando might have ideas of playing for another team who are more focused on the prize.

tbh I reckon its a way of davies keeping the pressure off.

 

[Bridgfordred79]

thing is how many of our current crop of players would be happy to stay another season of not being ready for the prem?

thats the only thing that concerns me is if we dont go up then the likes of raddy,dex,gunter,ando might have ideas of playing for another team who are more focused on the prize.

tbh I reckon its a way of davies keeping the pressure off.

What?

All of them.

If we finish in the top half this season all will stay, Davies said at the start consolidation,and all of the players will know that.

 

[Killer]

Yesterday I watched a team play fluent attacking football to repeatedly carve up what many would argue to be the divisions top team, packed to the brim with suposedly premiership quality players. I also witnessed a side completely shut up shop in the second half to deny Newcastle a goal and in spite of them coming out to have a really good go at us limit them to very few genuine chances.

So why is it today that all I keep hearing is forest aren't ready for promotion? Our manager is at pains to stress we are not the finished article, and there seems to be an attitude among the fans that we don't want a promotion until we are in a position where we could stay up.
My question is what do we need to put in place in order to make us ready?
Players?:
Surely if we did achieve the unthinkable this season given Doughtys record on transfers this summer then there would be money available to strengthen an already promising young squad. One might even say that not going up could mean loosing some of our top performers on the back of a decent season. Premiership status allows a club to attract, afford, and retain better players. I don't buy into the argument that the squad isn't good enough to compete at the top level as realistically very few championship squads are without the investment that comes from actually getting there. Also we have no idea as to the potential of our current crop, we have some very promising players and I wouldn't bet against a few of them making the step up.

Infrastructure?:
Whatever you may think of the city ground being re-developed/replaced, I don't think many would argue that in its current state it would be a perfectly adequate home in the top division. In fact any potential re-development is surely dependant on the financial rewards promotion brings. Our training facillities are top notch and we have good backroom staff that in my oppinion are doing a great job in maximising the performances of and improving our playing staff. Players frequently cite the reason they joined us as being that everything here is geared towards getting to the prem. What else do we need in this respect?

Finances?:
We have a chairman who has effectively removed the clubs debts. Yes I realise that the debt still exists in the form of chairmans loans to the club but as long as he is in charge it isn't something we have to worry about. One of the benefits of the having a fan as a chairman is that we know he has the best interests of the club at heart rather than our club being reduced to just some investment opportunity for a foreign tycoon, or a billionaires play thing. Anyone questioning his commitment only needs to look at our transfer expenditure over the last few seasons where we have consistantly spent big compared to other sides at our level. I would actually rate our Financial status as more stable than a lot of premiership sides.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not expecting promotion, I realise that we are barely a quarter of the way into the season and have a long way ahead of us during which time we will undoubtably have a dip in form/injuries. I'd be more than happy with a top half finish and still think that is the most realistic prospect for us. Fair play to Billy who is trying to keep the players feet on the ground and expectation levels in check, he's bound to play down our chances.

What I can't understand is our fans who say they don't want promotion yet because we aren't ready. How ready were Burnley/Stoke/Hull? We seem to be fearing the premiership purely based on Direby's example of how not to aquit yourselves. This is completely the wrong mentality to take in my oppinion, I say forget about that rabble of s**te and start believing in our own ability. I don't remember any of this anxiousness about promotion in our 2002/2003 push so why now? Were we really any more 'ready' then? Simple answer is no.

At the end of the day promotion may be beyond us this season but if our fans can stay positive and keep the belief that we are good enough to get a result against anyone in this division then that winning mentality is sure to transmit to the players and who knows what might be possible. And if we do manage it lets not worry about what the sheep molesters did, because we aren't them. We are Nottingham forest, Nottingham forest FC, By far the greatest team that you'l ever see.

This is Billy Davis way of keeping the pressure off. If he didn't want us to get promoted, he wouldnt be doing his job

 

[RICH1977]

earnshaw doesnt stay long at clubs, either does dex if a bigger club came in for them and said they where pushing for promotion or even teams that are promoted offer them premiership football do you really think they will hang around?

also when do we take our foot off the gas?

 

[Flaggers]

In "Apollo 13", Jim Lovell's wife turns to her husband and says, questioningly, "Thirteen?"

"It comes after twelve, honey".


The Premier League is just the old 1st division - it's the league above the Championship.

If you don't want to get promoted, what are you doing?

Great post, mr happy.

 

[thehockleyhustler]

thing is how many of our current crop of players would be happy to stay another season of not being ready for the prem?

thats the only thing that concerns me is if we dont go up then the likes of raddy,dex,gunter,ando might have ideas of playing for another team who are more focused on the prize.

tbh I reckon its a way of davies keeping the pressure off.

We know he does play mind games. Played down the importance of the Derby game and then after the match he admitted that he just made those comments to take the pressure off. I think he might be doing something similar here.

 

[Rogue]

Even if we don't go up a decent finish will make the club more attractive to players we approach to sign.

I'd rather have one or more seasons for Billy to get all of his 'pegs' sorted than go up and get smashed week in week out.

 

[BrightonRed]

I agree with the argument that Billy's attempting to keep the pressure to a minimum by downplaying our chances of success. Very sensible in my view.

I also think he's using this 'we're a work in progress' line to keep up the pressure on Mr Doughty. It's a not-very-subtle coded message that says 'I'm not done with building this squad yet, Mr Chairman – so don't go getting complacent just because I'm doing well, will you? I still want that left-back, for starters…'.

 

[RRRREDUN]

I don't know what to think about promotion but I do know that we would go up with no debt and would be able to spend £30 million in the close season to help us stay there. As someone else said - the crucial thing is to stay up if we go up - that really brings the riches with it. Then we'd see how big a club we really are. One of the key questions is - can we get big enough gates and do enough commercially to pay the fancy wages of Premier-class players?

 

[kezz]

It's a get out of Jail-free card.

If we continue to get results all season and find ourselves in the promotion mix-up come May, then I doubt he will still be saying this stuff. It'll be 'look how we've progressed throughout the season'.
If we don't, but show that we are 'building', then he will say that he has said it from the start.



Billy has a slight point that we did sit on the win for 45 mins yesterday, and that a team of genuine promotion contention could have been more comfortable in that situation if they were ready to go up.
We all want it, we'd all take it (Surely Billy included), and taking everything into consideration I'm definatly not saying we shouldn't have played like that - as we f***ing won. Thats undeniable. But I don't think you'd find West Brom, Boro or Sheff Utd as happy if they had held on by the skin of their teeth in the same circumstance.

It's tricky as Newcastle are top, and have a squad capable of playing regular mid-table Premierleague football. Perhaps it'd have seemed more logical if he'd said these comments after playing like we did in the second half against a different team in this league.

 

[redwood]

Like a few have said, Billy's managing expectations. If he comes out and turns this season into the big promotion push then he's setting himself and the players up for a crash. At the moment most fans accept that consolidation would do this year, and the longer it stays that way the better, the last thing we want is for the squad we're currently building to end the season seen as failures because they've managed 8th or 9th.

In reality though (and one suspects this is the point of view held within the squad), there's no such thing as ready or not ready. If we get up, we're good enough, full stop.