I'd like your opinions on this letter...

[Rich]

I'd like your opinions on this letter...The club respond...

After commenting in the Portugal thread that the club were so out of touch with the fans that it's laughable, I felt the need to send them an email.

As I felt that I touched on a few of the main issues, but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thought about the points I raised, and even about any points I didn't raise.

Please keep replies sensible, though.

Dear Sir

I’m writing to complain over what I see as a catalogue of inadequacies on behalf of Nottingham Forest. This email is not designed, nor intentioned, to single out any individual.

As a fan I have felt let down by the administration at Nottingham Forest for a long time. As the years have gone by, I believe the lack of forward motion has become more and more apparent. As a comparison to other clubs Nottingham Forest have effectively moved backwards and been overtaken in so many ways by just about every club who play at a comparable level and certainly every club who play at a higher level.
I will highlight the main failings, from the perspective of a fan, in the hope that you pay some attention to them.

• Pricing

Whilst it is appreciated that ticket sales are a major source of revenue for Nottingham Forest, I personally feel not enough is done to make the games accessible to many. In a season that has seen Nottingham Forest challenging for automatic promotion to the Premiership I find it incomprehensible that attendances have only reached the maximum on a handful of occasions. Coupled with the plans for a new stadium with a 40% higher capacity, I would have thought it prudent to ensure the City Ground is filled every week in an effort to aid justification for the ground move. The pricing structure is, in my opinion, wrong for a plethora of reason. Firstly I would ask the question as to why Main Stand A Block season tickets are over 30% more expensive than Trent End season tickets, yet the matchday prices are the same? The indicates to me an exploitation of those willing to purchase season tickets, the people who are there every week and are crucial to the existence of Nottingham Forest. It’s my belief that pricing at Nottingham Forest doesn’t reflect the economic situation in the country. Average fans are being priced away from the City Ground and no reaction to vast unemployment and circumstances of fans has been made.

• Treatment of fans at games

As much as I am aware that there are regulations beyond the control of Nottingham Forest that supposedly enforce certain rules such as standing, I feel that the way Nottingham Forest’s stewards go about their duties is not appropriate. Rigidly and very clearly suppressing any form of atmosphere is not conducive to a good matchday experience, which in turn makes people question whether they are getting value for their hard earned money on a Saturday afternoon. The validity of the seating regulations was challenged by Manchester United in their recent game at Bolton. I would have expected that if Nottingham Forest had the interests of their fans at heart, some reaction to this would have been made. Instead I routinely see overzealous stewarding stifling enjoyment for, what appears to be, their own pleasure rather than sensible rule enforcing. A courtesy glance at any of the supporters’ forums would give a variety of opinion and examples that show the problem, yet nothing ever seems to be done about it. No statements, no reason, no change. The problems are made worse when people see that the away supporters are not being subjected to the same treatment.

• Smoking

Since the City Ground became a no smoking environment, it would seem that the toilets have become a designated smoking zone. Their enclosed spacing makes them not a great environment for non-smokers to be in. They are a facility there for the use of everyone, yet the policies employed have essentially made them a smoky environment that one would not feel comfortable taking children into. Given the vast outdoor space at the back of the Main Stand, it strikes me as odd that this has not been designated a smoking area. Every ground I have visited has made a smoking area accessible to the fans, except the City Ground. Making the ground entirely non-smoking has not eradicated smoking, it has simply ensured that it is done in areas entirely unsuitable for it. The reactions to this have been commensurate with what I have come to expect from Nottingham Forest, though. Rather than a response for the better of everyone, stewards are employed to eject people for breaking a rule that, to put it bluntly, will always be broken unless concessions are made. I know I would much prefer to see people smoking in an area where other people have the choice to breathe second hand smoke or not, rather than have to grin and bear it in an area that they have to visit. As I have said, I see this as a microcosm of the way Nottingham Forest is currently being run as a whole.

• Marketing

I attended the kit launch last summer, and was visibly shocked by what I saw. I also attended the Derby County kit launch, and to compare the two would be, in football terms, a Premier League club against a Sunday League side. Derby chose to hold their launch with a celebration in the middle of their town. They had players wearing the kits, and created a buzz about it. Nottingham Forest had a few photographers. No glitz, no glamour, and I imagine not many impulse sales. A kit launch in Market Square, with players modelling the kits and a facility to buy the shirt on the day would surely be both profitable and an event that fans could enjoy. The possibilities are wide; you could have sold season tickets and set up a concession for Victor Chandler to take bets on Forest winning the league. Perhaps sold tickets to upcoming friendlies, or indeed given tickets to said friendlies away with shirt purchases. Children could have been invited down, a good message could have been promoted and the youth around Nottingham could have been enthused with the club. Instead, we witnessed a low key affair to launch a new shirt to minimal fanfare. I personally believe I could have put on a better event with as little as a day’s notice.

• Summer trip

As one of the supporters who made the trip to Portugal last summer, along with the trips to Dublin and Germany in previous seasons I feel that the club doesn’t appear to acknowledge the importance of these trips to the fans. If the club does acknowledge that, it surely indicates that they do not care. I read a letter from Fraser Nicholson, which was published on the forums, in which he stated that the club were aware of the rumours circulating about a trip to Portugal, but details were not finalised. The letter indicated awareness, but nothing is forthcoming from the club. It’s as though the importance of this to the fans is completely overlooked. You can trust me on this, a trip to see Forest playing abroad is very important to the fans, and as such should be made a much higher priority than it currently is. I urge you to either organise a game or to invite fans over to an open training session. Whatever you decide to do, it should be done in a timely manner, something that has not been done on any trip abroad for some time. It’s perhaps also worth mentioning that should a trip abroad become a reality, it might be prudent to have already released next seasons shirt. Just a thought that perhaps synergising aspects of the club might be of benefit all round.

As I said at the top, this email is not designed to be critical of any individual. It is written in the hope of prompting a change to the way the supporters are treat by the club.

There are other gripes I have that I have not noted here, mainly as I feel the issues raised are the most important ones.

I look forward to a response

Regards

I was going to mention the annual Forest Advantage Card idea, but I didn't want to give away what I could sell!

 

[winnits]

Haha!... the only other big gripe I believe to be missing (and links with your coments on pricing) is Forest's seeming inability to release season ticket prices before the end of May/June.

The excuse of not knowing what league we'll be competing in wears thin - indeed, they could even offer tiered pricing depending at which level we will end up competing. Unlike our peers, Forest also offer no incentive for early renewal, and indeed, the incentive to renew is fairly miniscule in terms of the discount received compared to a new season ticket holder.

If you sell in the loyalty scheme idea then I should definitely be your lead consultant

 

[Special Agent Dale Cooper]

you should working in marketing Rich.

What ever happened to football being about muddy knees and kick arounds in the car park afterwards.

I don't know anymore


also, why don't you have a pop at the TA panel while you're there?

 

[thehockleyhustler]

Good email Rich although I would have mentioned more about the marketing side of things such as the shocking tat they sell in the club shop etc

 

[Roland]

Makes the points clearly Rich - go for it! Look forward to discussing the response.

 

[FBS]

It's a bloody good letter Rich. I completely agree about the pricing of tickets. It's pretty unfair that season ticket holders should have to pay more like you mentioned.

 

[Rich]

Haha!... the only other big gripe I believe to be missing (and links with your coments on pricing) is Forest's seeming inability to release season ticket prices before the end of May/June.

The excuse of not knowing what league we'll be competing in wears thin - indeed, they could even offer tiered pricing depending at which level we will end up competing. Unlike our peers, Forest also offer no incentive for early renewal, and indeed, the incentive to renew is fairly miniscule in terms of the discount received compared to a new season ticket holder.

If you sell in the loyalty scheme idea then I should definitely be your lead consultant

Valid points. You'd always be my 'go-to' guy with the FAC, you know that!

you should working in marketing Rich.

What ever happened to football being about muddy knees and kick arounds in the car park afterwards.

I don't know anymore

also, why don't you have a pop at the TA panel while you're there?

I didn't want this to be about football, if that makes sense. It's not my place to criticise not signing Shorey etc. You make a good point about muddy knees.

Good email Rich although I would have mentioned more about the marketing side of things such as the shocking tat they sell in the club shop etc

I suppose the problems are further away than they appear on that front. If people aren't enamoured to spend money on Forest, they can't stock the club shop with expensive items.

A shift to a good catalogue/mail order JIT system would possibly mean a greater range of products, but with that system, the profit margins would be too small to warrant the effort. I believe the tat would be upgraded if more people visited the shop on non matchdays, and there was a greater interest in Forest merchandise.

I also think there are ways to integrate what they do sell with the people who would currently buy anything, but as I said in the letter, there is a complete lackof synergy between facets of Nottingham Forest that would work well together.

 

[Rich]

I had a response this morning, but essentially it was just an email to say it was being distributed amongst the people in various departments.

I will obviously keep this thread updated with developments.

 

[Special Agent Dale Cooper]

synergy

oh God, that's just ruined everything

 

[incapable hulk]

Good letter rich

You should mention the somewhat farcical approach to releasing the new seasons home kit the day the season starts and releasing the away kit a whole month later.

Its a bizzarre policy which must cost the club abit in lost shirt sales. Your dead on about the difference between forest and derbys kit launch.

We may laugh at thier shenanigans, but they are streets ahead when it comes to what they offer to thier fans, and how they entice people to the games.

I'd also say they should do much more to promote the kids for a quid games, which seems to be only promoted at matches and on the website.
Its a great offer, and you should see much more advertising for it around town.

The mail order/web shop is horrible, and not user friendly.

The club really needs to work on how it interacts with fans. Everything about its marketing seems like an afterthought, rather than being a central principle of the business side of nottingham forest.

*Edit* You make a great point about the portugal trip and the open training session. Derby did something similar when they went to holland not long back

 

[thehockleyhustler]

I sometimes wonder if the club understand the importance of the commercial and marketing side of things.

Anyone with half a brain would push Umbro to ensure that the new kit is released to coincide with the Playoff campaign. I imagine that if we got all the way to Wembley that a good 60%-70% of the 30 odd thousands fans we would take would want to be wearing one of them

 

[king_congo_red]

Yep, good stuff Rich. The only additional thing you could have done, really, was to cite specific examples for some of the more general points. For example, when you cited 'our peers' offering tiered pricing, it wouldn't have hurt to name these peers and given an example of such a structure to further illustrate the point.

 

[RICH1977]

covers all the things I have concerns over, I would also like them to give season ticket holders more advantages such as cheaper tickets for certain games (they did this under platts reign season ticket holders could buy tickets for freinds and family at £5) I still think league cup early rounds should be included aswell.

 

[Rich]

If I remember correctly the shirts were due to a manufacturing issue, something to do with the dyes running in the badge. Obviously whilst that was out of the clubs hands, it does seem that poor planning was a contributing factor.

I don't think it's a policy to release shirts so late, but I'd be interested to hear what measures are in place to ensure it doesn't happen again. As I said, the kit launch could easily be tied in with other marketing, such as friendly games or ticket sales etc.

 

[incapable hulk]

I sometimes wonder if the club understand the importance of the commercial and marketing side of things.

Anyone with half a brain would push Umbro to ensure that the new kit is released to coincide with the Playoff campaign. I imagine that if we got all the way to Wembley that a good 60%-70% of the 30 odd thousands fans we would take would want to be wearing one of them

You'd think they really be able to capitalise on the upswing of interest and good feeling around the club.

But knowing forest, they'll have stopped stocking this seasons kits, and have the club shop closed for refurbishment during this period- missing out on potentially a ton of saleslol

 

[Rich]

Yep, good stuff Rich. The only additional thing you could have done, really, was to cite specific examples for some of the more general points. For example, when you cited 'our peers' offering tiered pricing, it wouldn't have hurt to name these peers and given an example of such a structure to further illustrate the point.

I'm kind of hoping to be given an audience, whereby I would be able to address specifics.

We don't need to look very far for clubs doing things better for their fans. Both Notts County and Derby have shown where we should be heading.

 

[Rich]

You'd think they really be able to capitalise on the upswing of interest and good feeling around the club.

But knowing forest, they'll have stopped stocking this seasons kits, and have the club shop closed for refurbishment during this period- missing out on potentially a ton of saleslol

Pretty sure that's exactly what has happened. This season's shirt doesn't appear to be getting restocked.

 

[king_congo_red]

I'm kind of hoping to be given an audience, whereby I would be able to address specifics.

We don't need to look very far for clubs doing things better for their fans. Both Notts County and Derby have shown where we should be heading.

Good stuff. I hope they grant you the opportunity.

 

[Darth Pierre]

think derby can get away with having a kit launch in the middle of their town as they only have one football team to support.

Nottingham has 3 so would it be a bit biased??...all the rest i agree with.

 

[Special Agent Dale Cooper]

Both Notts County and Derby have shown where we should be heading.

towards administration?

 

[Rich]

covers all the things I have concerns over, I would also like them to give season ticket holders more advantages such as cheaper tickets for certain games (they did this under platts reign season ticket holders could buy tickets for freinds and family at £5) I still think league cup early rounds should be included aswell.

I think there is a minimum price set for the League Cup, owing to the revenue splitting, but you're right, benefits should be there for these games.

Without going too far into detail, the Advantage Card system Al and I touched on earlier would be a points for rewards system like Tesco or Boots, and would give the facility to offer greater points for fans who make the effort to get to these games. The broadstrokes would be that more points would equate to greater priority for bigger games. In essence, those who saw us play in the first round of the League Cup against the likes of Morecambe etc would be higher up the queue for the playoff tickets.

There are a lot of posts where we go into greater detail about the scheme. I doubt it'll ever be adopted, though. Forest are too backward thinking.

Another advantage would be that using the card as a ticket would mean lost season tickets could be replaced for a small charge rather than offering nothing if season ticket is lost or stolen.

 

[king_congo_red]

think derby can get away with having a kit launch in the middle of their town as they only have one football team to support.

Nottingham has 3 so would it be a bit biased??...all the rest i agree with.

I'm assuming that you're counting Mansfield as the third team?

In which case you would also have to count Chesterfield as a team in Derby...so they have two.

EDIT: Maybe Alfreton too...

 

[Rich]

towards administration?

One has been in the Premier League lately, and the other has all but won the league they're in.

As I said, the footballing side isn't what I'm meaning with this letter.

 

[incapable hulk]

Pretty sure that's exactly what has happened. This season's shirt doesn't appear to be getting restocked.

Thats terribly poor planning on the clubs part.

Things like the play offs provide a boost in support, that the club should be looking to capitalise on.

I hope you manage to get an audience and point this sort of stuff out.

I seem to remember back when doughty first took charge, the club said its marketing and promotion was being done by the same people who do manchester united's.
It doesnt seem that way, and it must've changed to a different company since.

 

[Rich]

think derby can get away with having a kit launch in the middle of their town as they only have one football team to support.

Nottingham has 3 so would it be a bit biased??...all the rest i agree with.

I'm not sure I agree here. Promoting either of the city's football teams is a priority of the City. It would only be biased if County were denied the opportunity to do the same thing.