Ibrahim Sangaré

[McKenzie]

Our fans just do not understand the role and immediately call any 6 shit.

See McGovern, Watson, McKenna for proof

I really do believe this to be the case, they expect them to roam around like superman tackling everything with a pulse whilst at the same time screening the back 4, never having an opposition player behind them and never give the ball away. That seems to be the demands putting on Sangare at the moment by some.

Just because some fans (and there are quite a few) dont agree with your opinion of this player does not mean they don't understand the position he is playing. What a patronising thing to say about fellow fans.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Except the stats say Sangare intercepts more than Yates.

This is why this "debate" is so interesting. Some of the arguments made are actually not as factual as some poster's believe.

To start with I wasn't comparing Sangare against any other player, just giving a reason why his # of tackles might be higher.

But if you want an answer to that: Yates plays 20 yards higher up the pitch and he presses more, the result being that someone else then gets the opportunity to intercept.

 

[apondaway]

To start with I wasn't comparing Sangare against any other player, just giving a reason why his # of tackles might be higher.

But if you want an answer to that: Yates plays 20 yards higher up the pitch and he presses more, the result being that someone else then gets the opportunity to intercept.

I wasn't having a go or anything, just pointing out that the "arguments" for why Yates is better tend to not play out favorably in the stats vis a vis Sangare. Like yesterday, Sangare had an interception, Yates had none. Sangare also won far more tackles and ground duels and Yates gave the ball away more than Sangare in half the time. But to a large portion of the viewers Yates was better. For me that's mental but it is what it is.

 

[youreds1986]

I really do believe this to be the case, they expect them to roam around like superman tackling everything with a pulse whilst at the same time screening the back 4, never having an opposition player behind them and never give the ball away. That seems to be the demands putting on Sangare at the moment by some.

If Sangare is going to be criticized all season for performances similar to that then I feel sorry for the bloke because he will never ever win people over no matter what he does.

I am happy with him personally, he is significantly better than last year and his performances have been good. Perception is reality, I suppose.

Sums it up for me, too.

I think the other issue is fans not appreciating what is asked of that role on the ball, too. Freuler got similar shit despite the fact he was our only midfield player offering himself as a passing option and when he got the ball everyone ran away from him, or hid.

That’s got a bit better but we still see issues in terms of players not offering those escape routes and angles that are required to help us play out of trouble. I’m absolutely positive that’s why Nuno pushed hard for JWP and I’m fairly sure we will see him next to Sangare soon to see how that works (although Anderson is going to be hard to drop).

 

[youreds1986]

I wasn't having a go or anything, just pointing out that the "arguments" for why Yates is better tend to not play out favorably in the stats vis a vis Sangare. Like yesterday, Sangare had an interception, Yates had none. Sangare also won far more tackles and ground duels and Yates gave the ball away more than Sangare in half the time. But to a large portion of the viewers Yates was better. For me that's mental but it is what it is.

Yates is homegrown, runs through brick walls and beats his chest. Of course he’s a fan favourite. And once you are a fan favourite everything gets viewed through rose tinted glasses.

Sangare is the absolute opposite.

I love Yates and he’s improved loads but it’s naive not to think that his lack of technical ability and positional nous has been a part of our problems in being able to play out and keep ourselves out of trouble. I still don’t think there’s a place for him in a PL midfield two although I do like his disrupter role for the last 20 minutes.

 

[Any Time Now]

Yates having poor positioning is a first for me, don't think even his biggest critics would hold that against him. He covers every blade of grass and gives the opposition nightmares

 

[garibaldi]

Both are Defensive Midfielders that play a different style of football. Of course most of their skills and attributes are interchangeable. Although both must play a similar role that is dictated by the tactics and style of play demanded by the Manager. Sangare's performance improved dratically yesterday, but from a low point and playing against three sides that are relegation rivals to ourselves. These scrappy, must win games are a testament to which players must stand up and be counted. Sangare hasn't shown enough grit, determination, nor consistency to be a first choice but worringly continues to lose the ball at the worst time, and positionally wise still nieve. Does he have other positive attributes? Yes, but not sufficient to warrant the price tag, or being immediate first choice.

Users on this website have continually criticised Yates, but time and again shown the ability and performance to step up and emphasize the critics are wrong. Yes he appears clumsy, whilst Sangare gets a free pass. Yates is a workhorse, and is far more creative and initutive than same fans believe, but it's results and performance that matter. Last season and this season Yates should be an automatic choice.

Yates isn't a defensive midfielder. He's a box to box CM just like they all are apart from Sangare.

 

[youreds1986]

Yates having poor positioning is a first for me, don't think even his biggest critics would hold that against him. He covers every blade of grass and gives the opposition nightmares

In terms of offering angles and helping to build play/escape the press his positional nous is absolutely lacking at this level

 

[Malwood]

I don't think Yates gets cut any slack because he's home-grown/passionate for the club. I'd say it's been the opposite during his rise up the ranks.

Lots of people thought Yates wasn't a good championship player, but now he's a premier league captain.

 

[Malwood]

Yates isn't a defensive midfielder. He's a box to box CM just like they all are apart from Sangare.

Sangare will be powering forward carrying the ball like Yaya Toure by the end of the season.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I wasn't having a go or anything, just pointing out that the "arguments" for why Yates is better tend to not play out favorably in the stats vis a vis Sangare. Like yesterday, Sangare had an interception, Yates had none. Sangare also won far more tackles and ground duels and Yates gave the ball away more than Sangare in half the time. But to a large portion of the viewers Yates was better. For me that's mental but it is what it is.

They're different players though. Yates got us further up the pitch when he came on through his hustling. We created more chances in the closing stages when he was on than we did prior.

I thought both players were fine yesterday but neither warranted more than a 6/10. Same for most of the other players that got on the pitch too frankly. No one really shone.

 

[apondaway]

They're different players though. Yates got us further up the pitch when he came on through his hustling. We created more chances in the closing stages when he was on than we did prior.

I thought both players were fine yesterday but neither warranted more than a 6/10. Same for most of the other players that got on the pitch too frankly. No one really shone.

Perhaps one of the issues is that "we're" constantly comparing Yates and Sangare rather than appreciating each on their own merits.

 

[Any Time Now]

In terms of offering angles and helping to build play/escape the press his positional nous is absolutely lacking at this level

He's an energetic box to box midfielder though. If he's stopping attacks, winning the ball in high % areas and recycling it what more do you realistically expect from him? And to be honest he's shown pretty clear signs this season already that his passing game has evolved and it's rare he kills a build up or gives the ball away cheap

Also anyone who truly believes Yates is a £12m player is smoking spice, same for the ones who seem to think he's been wrapped in cotton wool and had the backing of the fans on his journey to regular first team football here. He's been collectively shit on for years, that's what makes his rise so much more enjoyable

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

This Yates Vs Sangare stuff is a side-issue for me.

The bigger issue for me, is whether Nuno has the nouse to use either/or Sangare & Yates effectively to get us winning at home.

I think between them both he has plenty to get those home wins rolling now, same with other areas in the squad having double-cover too, such as Elanga-Jota, Sels-Miggy etc.

The striker position is an obvious exception, but if we can't start winning at home soon despite that then we're still underperforming.

 

[Rzar]

Just because some fans (and there are quite a few) dont agree with your opinion of this player does not mean they don't understand the position he is playing. What a patronising thing to say about fellow fans.

I think the point was it isn't just one player, it has happened with multiple players that play the same position where they get overcriticized & scapegoated. The fact it's Yates the other side of the debate tell it's own story, a player that's been criticized for the past 5 years by a portion of the fanbase.

 

[PynchonForest]

Blaming Sangare for the goal is utterly absurd and why there are accusations of scapegoating. It was a slightly miscued clearance that CHO should have actually challenged for midway inside his half, that then dropped to a player still 25 yards from goal, who Aina should have closed down, who then smashed an unstoppable shot from distance. There were worse clearances in the same game that didn't happen to end in goal of the month contenders. But yeah, Sangare to blame

Correct on CHO, but lofting a ball in front of your 18 (between the posts) like that is not good. Sangare's lapse of concentration, 100%. I am sorry, but this is not U17 ball.

 

[apondaway]

Correct on CHO, but lofting a ball in front of your 18 (between the posts) like that is not good. Sangare's lapse of concentration, 100%. I am sorry, but this is not U17 ball.

"in front of the 18" - you mean about 18 yards away from the front of the 18? CHO is scared of the ball, Anderson overruns it and his passed on the touch and Aina backs up rather than challenging. But it's Sangare's fault.

Sigh.

 

[PynchonForest]

"in front of the 18" - you mean about 18 yards away from the front of the 18? CHO is scared of the ball, Anderson overruns it and his passed on the touch and Aina backs up rather than challenging. But it's Sangare's fault.

Sigh.

He's the one who played the lazy ball. That is not a part of the pitch you want to play a ball like that into. This is basic stuff. I just re watched it twice. 100% Sangare's fault. You want to give him a free pass on that , fine.

 

[Rzar]

He's the one who played the lazy ball. That is not a part of the pitch you want to play a ball like that into. This is basic stuff. I just re watched it twice. 100% Sangare's fault. You want to give him a free pass on that , fine.

No danger

No danger

No danger

Still barely any danger - fantastic strike

You are picking on Sangare here. Absolutely zero chance it's his fault. No other player would be criticized for that pass and claiming it was his fault for the goal, that is a fact.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

It's no-one's fault FFS

It's a worldy of a strike from nowhere

One of those you just have to hold your hands up and say well done

 

[Stocky Red]

Let's face it, people have already made their mind up on him - I'm a fan and see what he does the team, others aren't. On forums like this it really doesn't matter - he can't speak English that well never mind reading it.

What would piss me off though would be our own supporters turning on him on in game - sounds like he's not the most confident of guys and that would help no one

Folk need to get their heads around the fact he will almost certainly start every game this season if fit, I suspect he doing exactly what Nuno wants from him.

 

[Erik]

This Yates Vs Sangare stuff is a side-issue for me.

It may be but it's f***ing hilarious.

3 pages of heated debate over who is the better - 'Never make a footballer, League 1 at best' Ryan Yates or a £30m signing who plays international football.

And we are still, overall, undecided!

Funny as f***!

 

[McKenzie]

I think the point was it isn't just one player, it has happened with multiple players that play the same position where they get overcriticized & scapegoated. The fact it's Yates the other side of the debate tell it's own story, a player that's been criticized for the past 5 years by a portion of the fanbase.

In whose opinion is the DM position over-criticised compared to say GK or CF? That’s not a fact it’s your opinion. And I’ve no idea how that could possibly be measured.

 

[PynchonForest]

Let me be clear---I am not one of the "Sangare was a horrible buy" contingent. Not at all. He's got some excellent qualities. But that is a poor area to play a nowhere ball. Again, this is basic stuff.

 

[Monkman]

Correct on CHO, but lofting a ball in front of your 18 (between the posts) like that is not good. Sangare's lapse of concentration, 100%. I am sorry, but this is not U17 ball.

Sorry, just watch it again. That's absolute nonsense.