Ibrahim Sangaré of CÔTE D'IVOIRE

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
People are allowed to hold opinions on players.

I'm not convinced against Sangare. I thought he was OK at the start of the season and I don't care who the opposition is if he has a good game like he did on Tuesday night, but there is a body of evidence which suggests that his ability to recover space and provide a shield for the back four isn't up to the same level as Yates or Dominguez, and I think that is a problem that is hard to ignore.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, I think Sangare was brought in to turn us into a more possession orientated side. Cooper clearly didn't want to be a park-the-bus type manager but felt it was the only way to get results, our top brass decided Sangare was the man to get hold of the ball and help us play out from the back in a slow and considered manner. Unfortunately for him, we've gone the other way, and solidified our "we don't want possession" approach with a fast, direct, counter attacking style.

I don't think he's terrible, I just don't think he's the right fit for us right now.
Sangare has vision, can pick and play a killer penetrating pass, and has an ability to anticipate opponents moves. His playing style is languid, and he looks to lack pace.
However, with injuries and illness I don’t think he has ever reached peak match fitness with us yet.
I think, like Taiwo, Ibrahim needs a run of injury-free games to achieve the fitness levels for the Premier League. I believe he will come good before the end of the season.
 

Stocky Red

First Team Squad
People are allowed to hold opinions on players.

I'm not convinced against Sangare. I thought he was OK at the start of the season and I don't care who the opposition is if he has a good game like he did on Tuesday night, but there is a body of evidence which suggests that his ability to recover space and provide a shield for the back four isn't up to the same level as Yates or Dominguez, and I think that is a problem that is hard to ignore.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, I think Sangare was brought in to turn us into a more possession orientated side. Cooper clearly didn't want to be a park-the-bus type manager but felt it was the only way to get results, our top brass decided Sangare was the man to get hold of the ball and help us play out from the back in a slow and considered manner. Unfortunately for him, we've gone the other way, and solidified our "we don't want possession" approach with a fast, direct, counter attacking style.

I don't think he's terrible, I just don't think he's the right fit for us right now.

Also as part of that evolution, Cooper wanted to play 4-3-3 which again I think suits Sangare having 2 players either side of him, getting around the pitch and doing the energetic stuff he struggles with. I remember Villa at home last season when we played this system, I think Dominguez and Mangala that day did the heavy lifting and Sangare was really good.

Even in tight situations he offers a degree of composure that others don't. His ability to take a touch, shift the direction of play, play a pass is different to what we have elsewhere in the squad. I'm with you though and not sure he will be able to cut it week in week out in a 4-2-3-1 with the way Nuno wants us to play
 
D

Deleted member 4346

Guest
Imagine those passes Sangaré was playing on Tuesday, but with Elanga, CHO, Wood and MGW running on to them.

He showed at the start of the season he can protect the back 4 (league leader in tackles/interceptions) and we know he can pick a pass.

Once he’s back up to full fitness he brings a dimension that none of our CMs adds to the team.
 

Monkman

John Robertson
I'm struggling to imagine that in the Premier League, where every team now seems to want to play the pressing game and will be right in his face before he has time to play that sort of pass.
As was pointed out above though, we have seen him play these passes in PL in his limited appearances, with less time on the ball.
 

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
And people are allowed to hold the opinion that is unfair or based on preconceptions.

FTFY.

No one is any more right here on Sangare. The only facts are he cost more than every other midfielder we have and isn't obviously better than them.

Edit: Yet.
 

Monkman

John Robertson
I just want to see more.
Same. I think he's too slow to be a really elite PL midfielder. I'm trying to establish a middle ground where he's seen as a good player, a worthy squad member pushing for a starting spot, that doesn't get crucified for any minor mistake. It says a lot about his standing with fans for example that many here blamed him for Wolves' goal back in August, despite there being other players clearly more at fault (and also that it was pretty much a screamer out of nowhere).
 

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
Not consistently, yet.
I'm not joining in with those throwing him under the bus, by the way. I just want to see more.

It's fairly consistent, he's got a good passing range on him.

I just don't think that's the main debate point around him and whether he should play a regular part for us.
 
It's fairly consistent, he's got a good passing range on him.
He does have that ability. I'd like a slightly larger sample size before I decide whether he can use it in a positive manner that fits and benefits the way we play however. That applies to all of his attributes though.
 
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Rzar

Bob McKinlay
FTFY.

No one is any more right here on Sangare. The only facts are he cost more than every other midfielder we have and isn't obviously better than them.

Edit: Yet.
Well he looked better than both midfielders he played with the other day & also did at the start of the season

But people aren’t looking for faults to bring up in their games, he constantly gets judged unfairly
 
But people aren’t looking for faults to bring up in their games, he constantly gets judged unfairly
In fairness - I'd suggest we've seen enough of both of those players to have discussed their positives and negatives to death already. We know what they are, we know their limitations - as the length of their threads would attest.
Sangaré we still have a very limited sample size of though, so the discussion is a little fresher.
 

Rzar

Bob McKinlay
In fairness - I'd suggest we've seen enough of both of those players to have discussed their positives and negatives to death already. We know what they are, we know their limitations - as the length of their threads would attest.
Sangaré we still have a very limited sample size of though, so the discussion is a little fresher.
Come on Congo, everytime he plays people put an asterisk next to anything good he does with a huge but justifying a reason why. Case in point “it’s only Exeter, Southampton, Wolves”. That right is only reserved for Sangare because of the start he had & injury problems. If he was signed in the summer he wouldn’t be under the same level of scrutiny.

I agree the sample size is still small but that is more reason to just let it play out, the general consensus is he has ability.
 

Gyros Peter

Sauce salad?
At this point the concern I have over Sangare playing wise is his speed on the recovery - I think, odd brainfarts aside, he does most things pretty well in that he can pick a pass, is good at breaking up play and has decent feet, if sometimes twisting himself into knots with them as well as the opposition.

The bit I do wonder about is his speed over short distances and to a lesser degree his speed of thought, which I'm giving a pass on until we've seen him at maximum sharpness.

There is also the injury worry - he really needs/deserves a bit of luck there now...
 

Baronvon

Jack Burkitt
The main problem with Sangare is that, whenever he gets a run of games and starts getting up to speed and looking like the player we hoped, he gets injured. Or gets shipped off to AFCON. Or gets malaria.

He's not really had a lot of luck really - which is a shame as he's got the ability to be a really good player for us. As he's shown a fair few times.
 

Robertson

Jack Burkitt
At this point the concern I have over Sangare playing wise is his speed on the recovery - I think, odd brainfarts aside, he does most things pretty well in that he can pick a pass, is good at breaking up play and has decent feet, if sometimes twisting himself into knots with them as well as the opposition.

The bit I do wonder about is his speed over short distances and to a lesser degree his speed of thought, which I'm giving a pass on until we've seen him at maximum sharpness.

There is also the injury worry - he really needs/deserves a bit of luck there now...
On Tuesday after one of the couple of times he gave the ball away allowing Exeter to break down their right he did a great job of sprinting back to cover Toffolo. Toffolo put the ball out for a corner, so he wasn't needed in the end, but the speed and effort to get back and cover was there.
 
Come on Congo, everytime he plays people put an asterisk next to anything good he does with a huge but justifying a reason why. Case in point “it’s only Exeter, Southampton, Wolves”. That right is only reserved for Sangare because of the start he had & injury problems. If he was signed in the summer he wouldn’t be under the same level of scrutiny.
I don't completely disagree - and I'm aware that there are some fans/posters who will make their mind up on a player, one way or another and look for every possible excuse or reason to criticize them. Maybe the stop-start nature of his time here is the reason for that, maybe it's because he's competing for time with players who have built up more good-will with their performances, who knows.
I can only call what I see though - and try to give every player a fair assessment.
 

DB1702

Viv Anderson
Sangare is hard to judge due to lack of game time and injuries and illness. Yes he needs a run of games to get up to speed but for me I would line up with Danilo and Anderson in the middle of the park and give Sangare time to get fully fit. He will hopefully be a great sub to bring on and help us see out games.
 
For now he's our lord and saviour and clearly our best midfielder.
I do love the binary assessment we seem to have as a fanbase, regarding players. (and also often others opinions of players)
They're either Superb or Shit.
There is no in-between, there is no nuance.
And when I say 'love' I'm not even being sarcastic - it always tickles me!
 

MaxiRobriguez

Bob McKinlay
At this point the concern I have over Sangare playing wise is his speed on the recovery - I think, odd brainfarts aside, he does most things pretty well in that he can pick a pass, is good at breaking up play and has decent feet, if sometimes twisting himself into knots with them as well as the opposition.

The bit I do wonder about is his speed over short distances and to a lesser degree his speed of thought, which I'm giving a pass on until we've seen him at maximum sharpness.

There is also the injury worry - he really needs/deserves a bit of luck there now...

Sounds like you're being unfair.
 

Monkman

John Robertson
I do love the binary assessment we seem to have as a fanbase, regarding players. (and also often others opinions of players)
They're either Superb or Shit.
There is no in-between, there is no nuance.
And when I say 'love' I'm not even being sarcastic - it always tickles me!
Amen, this is exactly what I'm trying to say. He's clearly not the second coming, or even our best midfielder. He is, however, a very decent member of the squad, one that Nuno clearly rates as he's pretty much always picked him when he's fit.
 

weejockmcplop

Jack Burkitt
I do love the binary assessment we seem to have as a fanbase, regarding players. (and also often others opinions of players)
They're either Superb or Shit.
There is no in-between, there is no nuance.
And when I say 'love' I'm not even being sarcastic - it always tickles me!
You get forced into it unfortunately.

I've never thought Sangare was shit. I just think he has strengths and weaknesses, and we need to change our play around that. Unfortunately when you say things like that all of a sudden you have prejudged the player and he's better than everyone else and i'm judging him unfairly.
It should be possible to point out someone's weaknesses without having to dig in and keep arguing about it because some people refuse to see it. It makes me sound much more negative about him than i actually feel.

I'd probably put him on about a similar level to our other midfielders. Put him in for the right kinds of games and he'll excel, just like Yates but kinda the opposite if you see what i mean.
 
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