Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
And with the case while it's a terrible look, I think it's very important to remember not everyone accused of something has done it.
Gonzalo Ariel Montiel
- Thread starter Heffing Psycho!
- Start date
Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
Ah, got you. I'd take a 16m discount - means they owe us 7 million for taking him.
Captain Sinister
Senior doom Monger
Quelle surpise that an attractive young lady might be tempted to take rich sports star/pop star/politician etc etc for as much as she can by accusing them of something that is almost impossible to defend against, so they pay hush money.
I am not saying the young lady in this instance did that, nor am i saying that Montiel did anything... just pointing out that the prospect of big money can make people do nasty things.
Did Trump pay Stormy Daniels hush money, and then commit "false accounting" to hide the payment, or did Stormy Daniels and Michael cohen see a sure-fire way of besmirching the impeccable Trump?
MASE
Up-Front
Keep Toffolo, his Chelsea errors still raw but generally he's been good, plus he's a thoroughly decent pro.
Montiels Chelsea error sort of epitomised him for me, he's a loose canon defensively.
Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
He's certainly shown that of late - I feel similar about Toffs though, in that he isn't really up to it defensively rather than loose cannon.
I wonder with Montiel whether that could be ironed out, though it's probably not worth the effort finding out.
Haych
John Robertson
Let the authorities decide if he’s been up to no good off the pitch.
He’s not been much cop on the pitch so I’d let him return to his parent club, he had a few bright sparks but doesn’t look like he’s a fit for us.
He’s not been much cop on the pitch so I’d let him return to his parent club, he had a few bright sparks but doesn’t look like he’s a fit for us.
Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
There's definitely the other side to it too, in that there's a huge list of victims unable to get their case past the CPS to ever face trial.
To be clear, my own stance is that rape is a terrible crime and I am not looking to take any side here.
eyupmeduck
Grenville Morris
Treading carefully, there are enough right backs in the world for us to not sign one that has largely been unimpressive on loan for us AND has this still hanging over his head.
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Statto
Free Kick Specialist
Usually that is due to lack of evidence meeting the threshold to build a criminal case. Guilt in the courts doesn't just mean someone said it, there probably needs to be stuff like forensics or witnesses etc. And even when it does get to trial it needs to stand up in front of cross-examining with the various barristers and a jury.
This is why he is - like anyone else - innocent until proven guilty and personally I find it wrong that the media decides to name these people before they have been convicted. It should be embargoed.
Rzar
Bob McKinlay
I agree completely with this. You are guilty whether you are accused, charged or found not guilty as soon as it's in the public domain. It's wrong.
Notcher
Steve Chettle
I know a guy that was on Oldham's books and he was even being looked at by the Republic of Ireland but ended up being sacked because of something like this.
He had started seeing a girl and she turned out to be 14 (she definitely didn't' look it). She had fabricated social media accounts with a false age to back up what she had said. Then when it didn't work out she then went to the police. He was still arrested and charged with a string of child sex offences and had to go through the ordeal of a crown court trial. It was only at the trial it was found that she had lied and fabricated everything about her age. Obviously he was found not guilty and cleared of all charges.
He was on the verge of suicide and his career was in pieces, which was made considerably worse because it was all put out by the national media well in advance of his trial before he could prove his innocence.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
I think we should steer clear of conferring anecdotal evidence with Montiels case given the thousands upon thousands of women who can't get the justice they deserve because the courts (rightly) demand a level of evidence they can't (thorough no fault of their own) provide.
I don't know if Montiel is innocent or guilty and I wish people would just let the legal process get on with it rather than touch upon things which are frankly irrelevant.
I would also call out the there's a lot more women and girls at Forest now thank ever before so when we're discussing such a sensitive topic that is impacting the club we should remember not all fans are adult men and therefore would consider our choice of words carefully.
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Notcher
Steve Chettle
I agree. Having seen what it did to that lad it really opened my eyes. The same goes for the women as you say that can't get a conviction because they either aren't believed or because the threshold is so high.
Either way there really should be something in place to embargo such things until a conviction is achieved.
Maybe not, the victim has chosen to go to trial rather then get a payout/ payoff or reach a deal. I know that's not proven guilt but i do think that very sketchy at the least, whatever happened the club should probably distance themselves from him.
Robertson
Grenville Morris
Especially since we already have another two excellent ones if we exercise the option on Ola Aina.
Master Yates
Stuart Pearce
What a load of horseshit. If you’re not saying she’s lying, then what on earth has that drivel in your first paragraph got to do with anything and what has the fact she is young or attractive got to do with anything?
You’ll be talking about what she was wearing next. “Impossible to defend against”? How about “statistically almost impossible to prove” as that’s more accurate.
Maybe when all the boomer rape apologists die off, the pitiful rape conviction rates in this country might increase.
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Captain Sinister
Senior doom Monger
If you take care to read my post again I am merely pointing out that where there is money there may be a temptation to try and access it with a damaging accusation that may or may not be true.
The alleged incident has not been proven one way or another.
It didn’t take place in this country.
My post was not referencing the case specifically.
As for your accusation I am stating “she is lying”, well I didn’t say that.
And I totally agree with your view that proving rape, and securing a conviction is statistically nigh on impossible.
There are numerous factors that combine to make it so, a major one being male attitudes towards women, including a testosterone-fuelled, male dominated police force.
As for suggesting I would argue “what a woman was wearing meant she was asking for it” , well as you know nothing about me I will treat that statement with the contempt it deserves.
DizzyBala
Jack Burkitt
I felt uncomfortable about him joining when he did, given it was hanging over him. I still feel uncomfortable about him being associated with the club. I wouldn't want us to sign him, whether he's innocent or guilty because he's nothing special but the fact that he's caught up in something, it's a bad look for the club. Same thing with Tavares being weird with that dog.
Otis Redding
Try A Little Tenderness
As a "boomer" myself, can I say that not all of us are the type of apologists you describe, or are ready to die just yet. As a father, grandfather and great-grandfather of girls I share your concerns about the shameful conviction figures.
valspoodle
Ian Bowyer
Purely from the football angle, it's a no from me.
SouthManchesterTree
Viv Anderson
On the pitch, I can’t work him out. Sometimes he looks really good; sometimes he looks like a pub player.
All in all I certainly wouldn’t be keeping him.
All in all I certainly wouldn’t be keeping him.
SouthManchesterTree
Viv Anderson
I rate Maguire. He’d certainly improve our defence IMO.
D
Deleted member 4346
Guest
Loan ended and we haven't picked up the option to buy.
Time to move to ex players.
Time to move to ex players.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Sensible.