Goalkeepers

[smithy]

I know it's another goalkeepers thread but so what...

After a fantastic win last night against arguably the strongest side in our division, it take's out cup run on further. We have only won cup games so far this season, I know it is early days and I do not want Billy's head on a platter or think we are going down before anyone thinks this is what its about.

However what amazes me is the fact that Lee Camp has been brought in to replace Paul Smith, yet we still fail to win a game with this world class keeper between the sticks. Paul Smith has had to sit and wait for his chance, only playing 2 games yet Forest have produced 2 wins. We still have a defence shortage yet no one will be mentioning that now we have won.

A question I pose to you Camp lovers is...is he really any better than a 3rd choice mid table Championship goalkeeper, as he was when we signed him, and if he did not save that penalty at the sheep, would he be as good as people say?

In my opinion he was a good signing to keep competition for places strong, however if we believe Smith isn't good enough, when are we going to sign a keeper who is better?

 

[winnits]

 

[Daniel]

Wow another Camp thread. How about Billy is giving both keepers a chance to prove themselves. Camp in the league and Smith in the cups, both keepers have their merits and I will imagine come the end of the season both will have played almost equal amounts of games.

 

[adam09]

I think Smith may get the nod for the Derby game...

 

[Darth Pierre]

I know it's another goalkeepers thread but so what...

After a fantastic win last night against arguably the strongest side in our division, it take's out cup run on further. We have only won cup games so far this season, I know it is early days and I do not want Billy's head on a platter or think we are going down before anyone thinks this is what its about.

However what amazes me is the fact that Lee Camp has been brought in to replace Paul Smith, yet we still fail to win a game with this world class keeper between the sticks. Paul Smith has had to sit and wait for his chance, only playing 2 games yet Forest have produced 2 wins. We still have a defence shortage yet no one will be mentioning that now we have won.

A question I pose to you Camp lovers is...is he really any better than a 3rd choice mid table Championship goalkeeper, as he was when we signed him, and if he did not save that penalty at the sheep, would he be as good as people say?

In my opinion he was a good signing to keep competition for places strong, however if we believe Smith isn't good enough, when are we going to sign a keeper who is better?

smith was dodgy lastnight

doesnt know whether to kick it out throw punch so he just kicks it to the oppostion

camp is better

camp is the vice captain

camp is our number one

lets move on

 

[Timothy Pope]

In Competitive fixtures this season, the stats say:

Camp - Played 4 Won 0 Conceded 6
Smith - Played 2 Won 2 Conceded 1

Damn lies & statistics eh :

 

[T.B.T.]

We have two strong keepers, both of which have strengths in their own areas. The real trick is knowing our opposition well enough to select the right one at the right time.

Smith did an amazing job last night and we'll never know how Camp would have performed had he played. However, had it gone to penalties then I would have been happier to have had Smith between the posts.

I imagine it will pose a selection dilemma for Davies on Saturday.

 

[Rich]

At one point last night, Smith made a diving save to his right, and about 3 people in A Block actually booed him for it.

 

[king_congo_red]

I imagine it will pose a selection dilemma for Davies on Saturday.

Yep, I'd certainly feel happier with Camp in the sticks in terms of Derby whipping crosses in for Hulse. However when it comes to Combo whacking 35 yarders I'd our goal, I'd feel safer with Smith's shot-stopping...

 

[Timothy Pope]

At one point last night, Smith made a diving save to his right, and about 3 people in A Block actually booed him for it.

That's because with Camp in goal, the opposition are afraid to shoot. :nowink:

 

[Darth Pierre]

smith made a brilliant double save in the first 20 minutes

he should have done better for their goal tho

 

[Rich]

Yep, I'd certainly feel happier with Camp in the sticks in terms of Derby whipping crosses in for Hulse. However when it comes to Combo whacking 35 yarders I'd our goal, I'd feel safer with Smith's shot-stopping...

Interesting.

Congo, how many games have you seen Paul Smith in, in full?

I'm not trying to devalue your opinion, but we all know you struggle to get to games with your P'boro job, so I find it amazing that you can state something that would surely have required you to have seen quite a few games.

Quick question to everyone, at what point did Smith fail to deal with any crosses last night?

He dealt with everything.

 

[Timothy Pope]

Yep, I'd certainly feel happier with Camp in the sticks in terms of Derby whipping crosses in for Hulse. However when it comes to Combo whacking 35 yarders I'd our goal, I'd feel safer with Smith's shot-stopping...:unsure:

Having seen the replay of QPR's goal on Saturday - I reckon Smith would have saved it.

But then again he may not have done so well as Camp in other situations.

It's Billy's call at the end of the day.

 

[earthworm]

He dealt with everything.

He did do well. On another point you mentioned, I did notice some time wasting tactics kicking in as extra time wore down, we were heading for the corner flags with 15 mins to go ;D

 

[king_congo_red]

Interesting.

Congo, how many games have you seen Paul Smith in, in full?

I'm not trying to devalue your opinion, but we all know you struggle to get to games with your P'boro job, so I find it amazing that you can state something that would surely have required you to have seen quite a few games.

I had a feeling as soon as I typed that I'd see a response along these lines Rich. I'm certainly not going on a detailed analysis, which obviously those of you who get to games are much better placed than myself to give.

However, I do thing it's fair to say that, Paul Smith percieved strength is his shot stopping and that Camps is his vocality and command of his area. If Billy is going for a 'horses for courses' approach then it would make sense to pick the goalkeeper whose strengths best counter the oppositions approach to goal. For example, when we play Peterborough, Smith would be a clear first choice for me, as they never get crosses in the box and their strikers are tiny. However, Derby have both a big centre-forward and the ability to shoot from distance.

 

[Tutts]

Interesting.

Congo, how many games have you seen Paul Smith in, in full?

I'm not trying to devalue your opinion, but we all know you struggle to get to games with your P'boro job, so I find it amazing that you can state something that would surely have required you to have seen quite a few games.

Quick question to everyone, at what point did Smith fail to deal with any crosses last night?

He dealt with everything.

No need to be quite that harsh Richard.

Camp is very well known for his more aggressive attacking of crosses than Smith.

 

[MansfieldRed]

Yep, I'd certainly feel happier with Camp in the sticks in terms of Derby whipping crosses in for Hulse. However when it comes to Combo whacking 35 yarders I'd our goal, I'd feel safer with Smith's shot-stopping...

Maybe we should stick them together and start breeding them. Might get lucky and get something that combines the two. :-*

 

[Erik]

I know it's another goalkeepers thread but so what...
....... when are we going to sign a keeper who is better?

Oh shit.

 

[Chets Left Peg]

Maybe we should stick them together and start breeding them. Might get lucky and get something that combines the two. :-*

Or we could be left with the opposite, a short keeper who lacks shot-stopping skills, never talks to his defence and can't kick. :-*

 

[Benchwarmer]

I know it's another goalkeepers thread but so what...

After a fantastic win last night against arguably the strongest side in our division, it take's out cup run on further. We have only won cup games so far this season, I know it is early days and I do not want Billy's head on a platter or think we are going down before anyone thinks this is what its about.

However what amazes me is the fact that Lee Camp has been brought in to replace Paul Smith, yet we still fail to win a game with this world class keeper between the sticks. Paul Smith has had to sit and wait for his chance, only playing 2 games yet Forest have produced 2 wins. We still have a defence shortage yet no one will be mentioning that now we have won.

A question I pose to you Camp lovers is...is he really any better than a 3rd choice mid table Championship goalkeeper, as he was when we signed him, and if he did not save that penalty at the sheep, would he be as good as people say?

In my opinion he was a good signing to keep competition for places strong, however if we believe Smith isn't good enough, when are we going to sign a keeper who is better?

The thing is, we didn't win in 90 minutes. It would have only been a draw!

 

[birkin youth]

both keepers have their merits

Maybe so, but Smith has more...

 

[Rich]

No need to be quite that harsh Richard.

Camp is very well known for his more aggressive attacking of crosses than Smith.

I don't think I was harsh, apologies if it seemed that way. I wasn't criticisng Congo for not going to games, I know exactly why he can't get to many games, that's not what I was getting at. My point was that when games are watched on highlights, it's very difficult to appraise our goalkeeper properly, as you tend only to see the extraordinarily good sides and the worst sides. You don't see the bread and butter on a highlight. You only see them making saves and conceding goals.

Smith is very vocal, you can hear him shout if you listen. He's also good at taking crosses, as demonstrated last night when he dealt with everything that came into the box, even taking a couple of extremely difficult ones. Just because opinion is down on him doesn't make it right.

Last night he was jeered for not playing a short ball quickly, he then released the ball long after a few seconds and people around were criticising how long it took him to get the ball into play.

Compare this to QPR on Sat, at one point Camp held the ball, at his feet after dropping it, for about a minute whilst our defenders were actively looking for the ball. No jeering at all.

Smith was damn near faultless last night playing against the strongest line up we've faced this season. A strikeforce consisting of players who were plying their trade at the top level last season.

I find it difficult to swallow when Smith has a good game, yet is still jeered, whilst Camp, once again, made some pretty serious f*** ups on Saturday and still gets the adulation from the crowd.

Only an offside flag saved him from real embarrassment on Saturday when he went walk about on one occassion, but, of course, unless it was shown on the highlights, the majority of posters on here will never know about it.

As for dealing with Hulse and crosses. Camp conceded 3 goals, 2 from crosses, at Pride Park last season, whereas Smith denied Hulse with soem superb saves in the cup game at Pride Park. Smith kept us from taking a severe beating in Derby, whilst Camp was reliant on some dodgy refereeing.

I'm not trying to criticise Camp, I just cannot stand the double standards shown by Forest fans who simply choose to watch games with their crassly indoctrinated preconceptions rather than their eyes.

On this seasons performances, not scores, alone Smith has performed the better of the two.

 

[george lyall]

Rich.Maybe the next time you see Chambo you can ask him wether or not they prefer Camp to Smith because Camp is more vocal (vice captain)? purely from a defenders perspective you understand

 

[Rich]

I have asked him.

Chambo rates both goalkeepers, but said he liked the way Camp continued to bollock defenders even after the game for mistakes, which is fair enough.

He said he was disappointed with the way the fans treat both himself and Smith, and that neither of them seem to ever to be able to do anything right in the fans' eyes.

 

[george lyall]

I have asked him.

Chambo rates both goalkeepers, but said he liked the way Camp continued to b*****k defenders even after the game for mistakes, which is fair enough.

He said he was disappointed with the way the fans treat both himself and Smith, and that neither of them seem to ever to be able to do anything right in the fans' eyes.

Thats the only explanation I could come up with, pleased to hear I was on the right tracks, cheers mate