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Financial Fair Play (FFP)

vertigored said:
This list seems somewhat pointless, palace, West Ham and wolves all multiple times more than usn it’s about whether the owner puts his money where his mouth is or just sits there and says he’s rich and owns a football club. Ours has proved he’d not afraid to money round.
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Might as well chat to a brick wall when Emmo has a bone. He's been reminding us that when you think about it, on paper, in all actuality...that our owner hasn't got a pot to piss in compared to the others and we're forever doomed line since at least last summer.

Does any of those owners kick the f*** out of a tv Emmo? Thats were my faith is in, someone with a pair of balls instead of a gang of suits who might show up if they could be arsed and treat our club like a bit of investment on the side.
 
I would rather have an owner who is absolutely bonkers and passionate about winning things, than - to quote the late, great, Joe Strummer - „a bunch of arsehole businessmen with all the loot“.
 
🙄🙄 this isn’t a debate on if I prefer a different owner. I like our owner I’m just arguing against the notion “FFP holds us back” it doesn’t. It holds Newcastle back but not us.
 
isaacs said:
I mean after reading that comprehensive black and white report you posted Emmo i reckon i'm going to pack this supporting a football club lark in, actually the club should just pack it in too because whats the point?

Do you honestly ever, get some joy out of football? Ever??
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I don’t why people are getting upset. My point I was arguing is FFP isn’t holding us back. Not that we shouldn’t bother. We are in a thread about FFP.

I’ve had plenty of joy last season. It just uniformed to say FFP is holding us back that’s all.
 
EmmersonForest4 said:
I would to Strum but that dosen’t mean that FFP is holding us back.
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Well. It sort of is holding Forest back, but absolutely, not in the same extent that (for example) it holds Newcastle back, or even Man Cheaty (granted, the latter have apparently given flagrant disregard - 115 times, I have read, it is alleged - to the rules), but as has been discussed elsewhere, the PL seems too afraid to take them to task on that.
 
EmmersonForest4 said:
🙄🙄 this isn’t a debate on if I prefer a different owner. I like our owner I’m just arguing against the notion “FFP holds us back” it doesn’t. It holds Newcastle back but not us.
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It doesn't matter how wealthy an owner is, just whether they're willing to spend it. The big man definitely seems to want to speculate to accumulate. Not sure all the other owners feel the same, including LIV.

Plus I think your table greatly underestimated Mr M's current wealth. World events have massively bolstered his worth in the last few years.
 
Strummer said:
Well. It sort of is holding Forest back, but absolutely, not in the same extent that (for example) it holds Newcastle back, or even Man Cheaty (granted, the latter have apparently given flagrant disregard - 115 times, I have read, it is alleged - to the rules), but as has been discussed elsewhere, the PL seems too afraid to take them to task on that.
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we are higher in the revenue table than the owner wealth table so it’s absolutely not holding us back. In fact I’d be weary looking at that table to go down the route that FFP is the problem to our ills. In fact it’s probably holding other owners back from spending.
 
EmmersonForest4 said:
we are higher in the revenue table than the owner wealth table so it’s absolutely not holding us back. In fact I’d be weary looking at that table to go down the route that FFP is the problem to our ills. In fact it’s probably holding other owners back from spending.
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Owner wealth is irrelevant if they aren't prepared to spend their wealth on the black hole that is football. Marinakis seems prepared to speculate in that way, others far less so.
 
EmmersonForest4 said:
we are higher in the revenue table than the owner wealth table so it’s absolutely not holding us back.
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Only if you use incorrect out of context figures. You've got championship figures in for the promoted clubs and Bournemouth's figure was £182m without bothering to check on anyone else. The fact is in terms of revenue there is the top tier of big clubs, a second tier of a few clubs like Villa and then the rest are much of a muchness.
 
Berkshire Red said:
Owner wealth is irrelevant if they aren't prepared to spend their wealth on the black hole that is football. Marinakis seems prepared to speculate in that way, others far less so.
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I agree but people neglect the fact that FFP disincentivises owners putting their money in their pockets. A lot more owners would speculate to accumulate in the prem if they were allowed to which would mean we would be bottom 6 for spending power anyway. I don’t buy that US investment funds don’t want to spend. Just look at Chelsea.

Also I am not trying to sap the joy out of football or call maranakis. Maranakis has been ace for us we all quite rightly love him. I just think the notion of FFP holding us back is just plainly not correct for us. It’s a chip on our shoulder that we shouldn’t have.
 
Berkshire Red said:
Owner wealth is irrelevant if they aren't prepared to spend their wealth on the black hole that is football. Marinakis seems prepared to speculate in that way, others far less so.
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„Big“ Evangelos seems the kind of man who’d chuck a million on Red, just because he can.
 
Bing Crosby's Head said:
Only if you use incorrect out of context figures. You've got championship figures in for the promoted clubs and Bournemouth's figure was £182m without bothering to check on anyone else. The fact is in terms of revenue there is the top tier of big clubs, a second tier of a few clubs like Villa and then the rest are much of a muchness.
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And there's the problem (well, one of them) with blindly using ChatGPT for something like this.

By design it'll just grab figures from all over the shop, without knowing or caring if they're accurate, or if they're consistently measured against each other, and collate it into a friendly list that looks like it's relevant but lacks all of the context.

Tbh at this point any time anyone starts a post with "I asked AI/ChatGPT/Gemini/etc" I automatically assume that either it's inaccurate or some important context is missing.
 
incident said:
And there's the problem (well, one of them) with blindly using ChatGPT for something like this.

By design it'll just grab figures from all over the shop, without knowing or caring if they're accurate, or if they're consistently measured against each other, and collate it into a friendly list that looks like it's relevant but lacks all of the context.

Tbh at this point any time anyone starts a post with "I asked AI/ChatGPT/Gemini/etc" I automatically assume that either it's inaccurate or some important context is missing.
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The only context is if Owners are willing to spend money. If FFP dosent exist do you think Forest would outspend more than 10 clubs each year? That is the question we should ask ourselves. ChatGpt or not I dont think we do knowing the figures. I am not mad, salty or bitter with big EM. Hes been ace for us and made some great decisions. Its the best its ever been in my life. I am just not gonna have a massive chip on my shoulder about FFP becuase in our situation in my opinon that isnt holding us back so its futile getting upset about. Part of me is actually glad FFP exists in our situation as our big players would have definetly left by now. If Newcastle can quadruple Andersons wages if FFP wasnt here, than hed have kicked up a massive stink.

If we want to have a go at the system than as I said we need to focus on how to make spending levels more competitive between the clubs.
 
EmmersonForest4 said:
The only context is if Owners are willing to spend money.
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Think you've missed the point I was making - the context is what the number being stated actually measures, how old the number is, whether it was accurate in the first place, and whether the answers to those questions are the same for each entry in the list.

Or to put it another way - your numbers cannot be trusted. As has already been pointed out, the number listed for EM is approximately a sixth of what Forbes have him at in a recent estimate - https://en.protothema.gr/2026/03/10/forbes-these-are-the-greek-billionaires-on-the-2026-list/
 
Red Ray's Redlist said:
It doesn't matter how wealthy an owner is, just whether they're willing to spend it. The big man definitely seems to want to speculate to accumulate. Not sure all the other owners feel the same, including LIV.

Plus I think your table greatly underestimated Mr M's current wealth. World events have massively bolstered his worth in the last few years.
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QPR have consistently been one of the wealthiest clubs in the country for the past 2 decades, and have a team full of free transfers.

EM is arguably one of the most generous owners with his cash in football, certainly in the Premier League. Most clubs are owned by consortiums & hedge funds, who will all want a return on their investment. Not saying EM doesn't, but he prioritises other things & doesn't have to go through 5 people to invest.
 
EmmersonForest4 said:
I don’t why people are getting upset. My point I was arguing is FFP isn’t holding us back. Not that we shouldn’t bother. We are in a thread about FFP.

I’ve had plenty of joy last season. It just uniformed to say FFP is holding us back that’s all.
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Have you thought that the reaction might be because you are talking rubbish & moaning about nothing? We are one of few clubs that is almost certainly held back by FFP.

75% of PL clubs are beholden to shareholders & investors. To invest serious money, they have to go through several channels. A consortium could have a combined net worth of $10 trillion, they still all have to be on board to invest anything, the perfect example of that is Palace. They barely invest a penny because Parish doesn't have any money himself.

Forest's ownership structure gives us true independence from others, we don't have to jump through 10 different avenues to invest and with an owner willing to put his money where he mouth is at every opportunity (we have spend the absolute maximum we have been allowed for almost a decade under him - so how you can declare it's not holding us back?).
 
EmmersonForest4 said:
The only context is if Owners are willing to spend money. If FFP dosent exist do you think Forest would outspend more than 10 clubs each year? That is the question we should ask ourselves. ChatGpt or not I dont think we do knowing the figures. I am not mad, salty or bitter with big EM. Hes been ace for us and made some great decisions. Its the best its ever been in my life. I am just not gonna have a massive chip on my shoulder about FFP becuase in our situation in my opinon that isnt holding us back so its futile getting upset about. Part of me is actually glad FFP exists in our situation as our big players would have definetly left by now. If Newcastle can quadruple Andersons wages if FFP wasnt here, than hed have kicked up a massive stink.

If we want to have a go at the system than as I said we need to focus on how to make spending levels more competitive between the clubs.
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YES. We would. We already pretty much do for a start.

Half the division is owned by owners that do not put a penny into their clubs & are content with PSR being a thing because of that reason - they can compete with their revenues & not cash they put in. Liverpool & Man United the two examples of that, they don't put a penny in themselves.

Why do you think they lobbied so hard for these rules in the first place? Go & look at the letters from about 2010 with them & Arsenal.
 
Rzar said:
Have you thought that the reaction might be because you are talking rubbish & moaning about nothing? We are one of few clubs that is almost certainly held back by FFP.

75% of PL clubs are beholden to shareholders & investors. To invest serious money, they have to go through several channels. A consortium could have a combined net worth of $10 trillion, they still all have to be on board to invest anything, the perfect example of that is Palace. They barely invest a penny because Parish doesn't have any money himself.

Forest's ownership structure gives us true independence from others, we don't have to jump through 10 different avenues to invest and with an owner willing to put his money where he mouth is at every opportunity (we have spend the absolute maximum we have been allowed for almost a decade under him - so how you can declare it's not holding us back?).
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Chelsea have investrors and spend much more than us. Investors would easily spend more if FFP didn’t exist as that’s the only way to protect their investment. FFP means they don’t have to spend as much but it’s also harder for investors to generate meaningful returns as it’s harder to get ahead. Not just Chelsea though, Villa, Everton, Leeds all owned by massive investment consortia would easily outspend maranakis.
 
EmmersonForest4 said:
Chelsea have investrors and spend much more than us. Investors would easily spend more if FFP didn’t exist as that’s the only way to protect their investment. FFP means they don’t have to spend as much but it’s also harder for investors to generate meaningful returns as it’s harder to get ahead. Not just Chelsea though, Villa, Everton, Leeds all owned by massive investment consortia would easily outspend maranakis.
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Chelsea are not a normal case. There business plan makes no sense at all & is either part of a massive tax write off or something even more nefarious - in my opinion of course. They already owe hundreds of millions elsewhere & are at risk of the debt being recalled.

Leeds & Everton do not outspend us, nor would they - again, they are owned by investors that want a R.O.I. Villa are the closest to our business model, and outspend us because they are allowed too.

But even if these clubs do have more spending power, what point are you even trying to make? Chelsea have already spent about 10x more than everybody else, they have nothing to show for it & are a shambles, so what even is your point?
 
Rzar said:
Chelsea are not a normal case. There business plan makes no sense at all & is either part of a massive tax write off or something even more nefarious - in my opinion of course. They already owe hundreds of millions elsewhere & are at risk of the debt being recalled.

Leeds & Everton do not outspend us, nor would they - again, they are owned by investors that want a R.O.I. Villa are the closest to our business model, and outspend us because they are allowed too.

But even if these clubs do have more spending power, what point are you even trying to make? Chelsea have already spent about 10x more than everybody else, they have nothing to show for it & are a shambles, so what even is your point?
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I’m not worrying but FFP isn’t holding us back. I see this chip on our shoulder for no reason that’s all. Leeds owned by the 49ers consortia would not sit back and let Maranakis outspend them if FFP wasn’t a thing.
 
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