Financial Fair Play (FFP)

[Daz]

This is a little sad but I spent an hour looking at the forest accounts and the SCR methodology.

I have around ~ 85% for this year, so nowhere near the UEFA threshold but it leaves us in a good position to meet the new PL rules next year.

The hardest thing to estimate in the calculation is wages but everything else is fairly easy to estimate/accessible.

If we qualify for Europe consistently then meeting that 70% threshold is going to be a real challenge. I guess that is highlighted by Villa and Newcastle struggling in this area.

 

[Statto]

A 24 year old is not going to get better at their job? based on what ?

Subs are not fringe players and havent been for many years. As people see a game develop and want subs brought on they are not wanting fringe players on, they want squad members who can impact a game. Almost by definition not a fringe player.

1. based on the issues that he has which limit his performances to mean that he is unlikely to play at a higher level than this, he is a good player of the ball and has the right motivation and aggression but he is not very fast and not particularly good tactically. I don't see how he's going to easily eliminate or reduce the propensity he has to make these absolute howlers which have cost us goals. And he certainly can't work on getting any faster.

2. Yes but he is third or fourth choice centre back so coming off the bench or starting in injuries are going to be the only chances he gets. Central defence is not an area where you just pull off a player after 70 mins or whatever to freshen things up, those changes are often made in attacking roles to try something different. Nor are you going to all of a sudden not play either Murillo or Milenkovic and play Morato or Jair instead and put one of the other lads on the bench unless you're fielding a weakened team anyway. So really he is "cover for the first team" albeit these players are part of the squad. But he isn't going to be a regular starter. Pretty much every appearance has been injury cover or when we've gone from 2 to 3

 

[Est.1865]

You start off at 85% but overspend to 105% and get a fine. Next season if you still overspend then your limit before getting a points deduction will be 95% (115% - 20% overspend). If you keep going over 85% your upper limit keeps dropping. Once you go below 85% it will rise by 10% per season until you get back to 115%.

Thanks, appreciate that.

 

[oobidoobi]

1. based on the issues that he has which limit his performances to mean that he is unlikely to play at a higher level than this, he is a good player of the ball and has the right motivation and aggression but he is not very fast and not particularly good tactically. I don't see how he's going to easily eliminate or reduce the propensity he has to make these absolute howlers which have cost us goals. And he certainly can't work on getting any faster.

2. Yes but he is third or fourth choice centre back so coming off the bench or starting in injuries are going to be the only chances he gets. Central defence is not an area where you just pull off a player after 70 mins or whatever to freshen things up, those changes are often made in attacking roles to try something different. Nor are you going to all of a sudden not play either Murillo or Milenkovic and play Morato or Jair instead and put one of the other lads on the bench unless you're fielding a weakened team anyway. So really he is "cover for the first team" albeit these players are part of the squad. But he isn't going to be a regular starter. Pretty much every appearance has been injury cover or when we've gone from 2 to 3

1. Right so you cant learn tactics after what age ? He cant gain confidence and improve decision making after 24. Do many people get faster after 24 ?
2. So first choice replacement in a two or first choice as part of a three. 36 appearances this season.
We can see you dont rate him but hes not a fringe player

 

[Steve Stone’s Brylcreem]

Deloitte football rich list out in Jan but flagged up by BBC Sport in an article about English teams in Europe having it easy in Europa and Conference leagues.

Deloitte Football Money League 2026

The 2024/25 season set another new record, with the top 20 Money League clubs generating over €12 billion in revenue for the first time.

www.deloitte.com

How are Brentford 30th with their small capacity ground? I know London but really!

Bournemouth 26th. 10k stadium.

It’s not the size of the City Ground that’s limiting our revenue is it?

 

[YouReds43]

This is a little sad but I spent an hour looking at the forest accounts and the SCR methodology.

I have around ~ 85% for this year, so nowhere near the UEFA threshold but it leaves us in a good position to meet the new PL rules next year.

The hardest thing to estimate in the calculation is wages but everything else is fairly easy to estimate/accessible.

If we qualify for Europe consistently then meeting that 70% threshold is going to be a real challenge. I guess that is highlighted by Villa and Newcastle struggling in this area.

It was reported in The Athletic that it was at around 75-77%.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Deloitte football rich list out in Jan but flagged up by BBC Sport in an article about English teams in Europe having it easy in Europa and Conference leagues.

Deloitte Football Money League 2026

The 2024/25 season set another new record, with the top 20 Money League clubs generating over €12 billion in revenue for the first time.

www.deloitte.com

How are Brentford 30th with their small capacity ground? I know London but really!

Bournemouth 26th. 10k stadium.

It’s not the size of the City Ground that’s limiting our revenue is it?

Nope, never has been.

You could double the price of tickets at the CG and we'd make that on a single sale of a fringe player, or 1/4 of PL revenue.

Unless you're a big club based in London that can siphon off thousands of corporate tickets where those punters spend £100+ in the club shop/matchday then the reality is match day revenue is almost pointless whilst we're in the PL.

Forest need to realise this and concentrate solely on making the CG intimidating in order to increase our chances of winning games. Winning games helps guarantee the PL gravy train, and it's an extra £3m for every position higher we finish in the table. That's a better investment than just putting more seats in place/hiking prices.

 

[Bing Crosby's Head]

Nope, never has been.

You could double the price of tickets at the CG and we'd make that on a single sale of a fringe player, or 1/4 of PL revenue.

Unless you're a big club based in London that can siphon off thousands of corporate tickets where those punters spend £100+ in the club shop/matchday then the reality is match day revenue is almost pointless whilst we're in the PL.

Forest need to realise this and concentrate solely on making the CG intimidating in order to increase our chances of winning games. Winning games helps guarantee the PL gravy train, and it's an extra £3m for every position higher we finish in the table. That's a better investment than just putting more seats in place/hiking prices.

Yes, we will earn more for finishing one place higher next season than we did for all the extra live tv matches we had this season.

 

[YouReds43]

This is big news. Everton have been instructed to pay Burnley nearly £40m in interest and damages. After the points deduction should've been given in 21/22 and NOT 22/23.

Everton FC to pay Burnley millions over PSR breaches

Burnley FC has won its legal dispute with Everton FC after the club sued the Toffees for breaching Premier League rules, The Lawyer understands. Everton has been ordered to pay Burnley compensation…

www.thelawyer.com

 

[Steve B]

This is big news. Everton have been instructed to pay Burnley nearly £40m in interest and damages. After the points deduction should've been given in 21/22 and NOT 22/23.

Everton FC to pay Burnley millions over PSR breaches

Burnley FC has won its legal dispute with Everton FC after the club sued the Toffees for breaching Premier League rules, The Lawyer understands. Everton has been ordered to pay Burnley compensation…

www.thelawyer.com

Wait til someone gets their hands on Lester

 

[vertigored]

Wait til someone gets their hands on Lester

Or derby..

 

[Statto]

Or derby..

Or us, we were docked points for breaching the limit and presumably other sides who did go down that season went down because of our overspending.

Leics clearly not but Leeds?

Docking us points the season after doesn't really help those who have missed out because of that issue.

If we look at something else like Southampton spying on other teams for example and even the bad VAR decisions - if we'd got 1 point at Man U for that goal which was later ruled as should have been disallowed, or the goal / penalty from either the bad offsides on Ndoye v Fulham (2 more points) we could have finished higher in the league and got more prize money. Or if we hadn't done better in other matches it could have been the difference between going up and not.

 

[coops89]

This is big news. Everton have been instructed to pay Burnley nearly £40m in interest and damages. After the points deduction should've been given in 21/22 and NOT 22/23.

Everton FC to pay Burnley millions over PSR breaches

Burnley FC has won its legal dispute with Everton FC after the club sued the Toffees for breaching Premier League rules, The Lawyer understands. Everton has been ordered to pay Burnley compensation…

www.thelawyer.com

Ramifications of this could be big. If City get done and it decided they should have been given deductions in an earlier season, then it is only right they compensate clubs that missed out on Europe, e.g. 5th place for missing the Champions League, 8th place for missing Europe, aswell as 18th place if the deduction would have been enough to relegate City.

 

[vertigored]

Or us, we were docked points for breaching the limit and presumably other sides who did go down that season went down because of our overspending.

Leics clearly not but Leeds?

Docking us points the season after doesn't really help those who have missed out because of that issue.

If we look at something else like Southampton spying on other teams for example and even the bad VAR decisions - if we'd got 1 point at Man U for that goal which was later ruled as should have been disallowed, or the goal / penalty from either the bad offsides on Ndoye v Fulham (2 more points) we could have finished higher in the league and got more prize money. Or if we hadn't done better in other matches it could have been the difference between going up and not.

But we were punished in the season we defaulted, derby managed to not file accounts for long enough to miss seasons

 

[Statto]

But we were punished in the season we defaulted, derby managed to not file accounts for long enough to miss seasons

Well technically we were punished the season after because we broke the limits the season we came up. But it's true that it was relatively recent compared to how long it's taken for other teams to be punished.

That's the league's issue really though, and whilst it is a bit annoying we were punished for PSR breaches quickly as well as Everton when other teams have not had anything done yet, they didn't break any rules doing what they did. And it did benefit us to do that against other teams like Leeds who went down that year and if we'd spent within the limits that probably should have been us.

It is silly though because if we'd sold Brennan in the early part of the window (like similar talk with Anderson now) we probably wouldn't have got as good a price compared to when we did sell and the cut off was in the middle of the window. It would have been better if that had been at the time the window opened or closed...

 

[Strummer]

Ramifications of this could be big. If City get done and it decided they should have been given deductions in an earlier season, then it is only right they compensate clubs that missed out on Europe, e.g. 5th place for missing the Champions League, 8th place for missing Europe, aswell as 18th place if the deduction would have been enough to relegate City.

That’s why it’ll never happen. Because it could destroy what little integrity the Premier League has had for the last decade.

And those who don’t want that fountain of money turning off won’t let it happen.

(But, I agree with you, Cheaty should get a right kicking, but they won’t, as the PL are terrified of their nation-state backed lawyers).

 

[coops89]

That’s why it’ll never happen. Because it could destroy what little integrity the Premier League has had for the last decade.

And those who don’t want that fountain of money turning off won’t let it happen.

(But, I agree with you, Cheaty should get a right kicking, but they won’t, as the PL are terrified of their nation-state backed lawyers).

Can you imagine the fall out if they were to get punished that severely? Like you said, the integrity of the league takes a massive hit. All those seasons with an asterisk next to the winners!

 

[Battered Sausage]

Wait til someone gets their hands on Lester

They will take them for all the money they have. Currently stands at £4.20 and a 10 centimes coin.

 

[Steve B]

They will take them for all the money they have. Currently stands at £4.20 and a 10 centimes coin.

….don’t forget what they’ve got left in the club shop, a couple of trampled on plastic clappers from 5 year ago and this off the top shelf, his names ‘Bin Dippin.

 

[Scott Gemmill's Hair]

As it sounds like our 25-26 PSR is not an issue, from an SCR point of view do we want the Anderson sale (if and when) to happen from 1st July?

Or does it not matter? I'd previously read SCR would be transfer window based, but not sure that's actually the case?

If it's still July to June, then surely we want Anderson sale from 1st July to benefit financially for three seasons rather than two?

 

[Gaz1980]

I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but a mate of mine knows far more than me says that if it's after July 1st and we don't go crazy this summer, we can go very big (for our level) next summer.

 

[GregorRobertson]

I believe it would be more advantageous to have the sale on the 26/27 books, but expect a deal could be agreed prior to that and formally complete on the 1st July.

 

[Rzar]

In the new rules, you are assessed from March to March - with another date in October but that is basically telling you to sort yourself out by March.

If the new rules kick in immediately & there is an overlap with the current rules, it wouldn’t matter whether we sell today or in July. If the new rules only start July 1, then it would matter - but I don’t know why the rules would kick in later if they are judging March to March, you would assume they are just running concurrently until June 30.

 

[Bing Crosby's Head]

In the new rules, you are assessed from March to March - with another date in October but that is basically telling you to sort yourself out by March.

If the new rules kick in immediately & there is an overlap with the current rules, it wouldn’t matter whether we sell today or in July. If the new rules only start July 1, then it would matter - but I don’t know why the rules would kick in later if they are judging March to March, you would assume they are just running concurrently until June 30.

The assessment is done in March but the period covered is still July to June. Basically clubs get checked post each transfer window to see if they are compliant to the 85% limit. If they are over in March then they are reassessed in June to work out the exact breach and whether they are due a fine or points deduction.

 

[Rzar]

The assessment is done in March but the period covered is still July to June. Basically clubs get checked post each transfer window to see if they are compliant to the 85% limit. If they are over in March then they are reassessed in June to work out the exact breach and whether they are due a fine or points deduction.

Where have you seen the covered period?

The only mention I see is it's assessed over March to March with an October assessment in the middle. I haven't seen a June 30 period mentioned anywhere.