Dr. Evangelos Marinakis and Pie Cannons (sponsored by Carlos)

Big Evangelos - IN or OUT?

  • Marinakis IN! - He‘s a billionaire so must know what he’s doing

    Votes: 133 68.6%
  • Marinakis OUT! - The club is a shambles!

    Votes: 15 7.7%
  • Modern Football, eh?

    Votes: 46 23.7%

  • Total voters
    194
Reputational damage is in many cases just as, if not more, important than financial losses.

Especially in the kind of business world that „Big“ Evangelos operates in (where, effectively, Forest is just a sideline).
 
As your resident "friendly" Palace fan on here - I think any Palace fan should have a grudge and any Forest fan should have one against Parish. It's what makes football so entertaining.

However I was at the game when the banner got unfurled and at the time I thought it crass, naff and unnecessary. We've got history of allowing media spin to blow good natured rivalries into full on violence, after the Cantona incident the United media went into overdrive to make out our fans are racist and incited Cantona to behave as he did. One fan was but this all resulted in one of our fans being murdered outside Villa Park in the build up to a cup semi final. The Clubs (both Palace and Forest) need to show some pragmatism in this and not stoke the flames.

There's been potential for some long running banter to be had about Forest replacing us in the Europa League - particularly given we went on to win the Conference League anyway. You appointing Glasner adds to it, signing Diomande adds to it, maybe even our two clubs trying to negotiate a deal will but I don't think the message was appropriate on that banner and I would have liked Marinakis to ignore it and let the whole situation now be decided by who has more success on the pitch.

I'll be there when you're all next in town in October but I really hope we can have a laugh and enjoy the game and not have this be stoked into something more!

Good luck for the new season, I wont say you're my second team but I will definitely be checking scores for you this year!
I can’t speak for everyone but I really think this ‘rivalry’ is very one sided. We haven’t done anything to palace other than reaped the reward of an incompetent owner who didn’t read his emails. The palace point of view seems to be pretty pissed off with us and keep doing mean things like singing songs and making pictures about our owner.

Enjoy europa, hope it doesn’t distract too much from the league for you. I won’t be keeping an eye out for your results as I really don’t care that much!
 
I can’t speak for everyone but I really think this ‘rivalry’ is very one sided. We haven’t done anything to palace other than reaped the reward of an incompetent owner who didn’t read his emails. The palace point of view seems to be pretty pissed off with us and keep doing mean things like singing songs and making pictures about our owner.

Enjoy europa, hope it doesn’t distract too much from the league for you. I won’t be keeping an eye out for your results as I really don’t care that much!
Did you not at least raise a wry smile when you appointed Glasner?

Given Sky will glamorise every televised fixture it is quite refreshing to have some spice about them.
 
Did you not at least raise a wry smile when you appointed Glasner?

Given Sky will glamorise every televised fixture it is quite refreshing to have some spice about them.
Not really, I was just a bit shocked at how a well run club like palace can keep losing players and managers as they don’t tie them up with contracts early enough and that once again, we have benefited from it.
 
Not really, I was just a bit shocked at how a well run club like palace can keep losing players and managers as they don’t tie them up with contracts early enough and that once again, we have benefited from it.
We're a mid table Championship club playing in the Premier League because we have a proven track record of unearthing top talent and providing a stepping stone for players to get into the league and into top sides.

By not tying them down to long contracts or standing in their way when they want to move on we can encourage the next top prospects to do the same. We can't pay top dollar wages (compared to other Premier League sides) and we can't usually offer European football.

Our very business model that got us here is the same one that stops us progressing from here.
 
We're a mid table Championship club playing in the Premier League because we have a proven track record of unearthing top talent and providing a stepping stone for players to get into the league and into top sides.

By not tying them down to long contracts or standing in their way when they want to move on we can encourage the next top prospects to do the same. We can't pay top dollar wages (compared to other Premier League sides) and we can't usually offer European football.

Our very business model that got us here is the same one that stops us progressing from here.
I totally agree with that. You've hit your ceiling as it stands and the only way that can change is by bringing in far more alternative revenue. Obviously Palace are looking towards some of that with the ground redevelopment.

Coming through an academy myself I can attest to the hotbed of talent that South London has. Every year there's just a conveyor belt of absolute monsters and unbelievable talent produced there. It's totally understandable why Palace have built a model this way when they have to fend off interest from the giant clubs of London.
 
I can’t speak for everyone but I really think this ‘rivalry’ is very one sided. We haven’t done anything to palace other than reaped the reward of an incompetent owner who didn’t read his emails. The palace point of view seems to be pretty pissed off with us and keep doing mean things like singing songs and making pictures about our owner.

Enjoy europa, hope it doesn’t distract too much from the league for you. I won’t be keeping an eye out for your results as I really don’t care that much!
It would be perhaps a bit more sensible from the perspective of the Palace fans if they looked from within and saw that the reason that they weren't allowed to take their place in the EL when winning the cup was because they did not comply with the rules on MCOs and blind trusts by the deadline which they had been told about. The fact remains that was their ownership situation and that they did not do it, and that this happened was down to either the club's administration thinking they did not need to for some reason, or that they gambled that they would not win the cup and qualify, or that they would somehow not be penalised for it. Whatever happened there is entirely the fault of the club, in fact they are quite lucky that the conference league place went to them, as UEFA could equally have simply expelled them from the EL and either left us in the CL or moved us to the EL and given the CL place to the next league side down or something like that, and they ended up winning it too. I doubt whether or not Forest got in touch with UEFA or anyone else about it had any impact on anything, other than the fact we were able to take their place because EM had followed the rules and put Forest into a blind trust by the deadline, even though ultimately he didn't need to.

What happened with Spurs and MGW isn't anything to do with Palace really, they just jumped on it because of the EL stuff, which wasn't Forest's doing or their decision. But some Palace fans thought it was sensible to do a libellous banner and the club allowed it into the ground and to be displayed, so that's their own issue really. If anything and someone should be aggrieved by that saga, it should be Spurs - having admittedly been given a player's release clause by a breach of confidentiality. they then met it. and agreed terms with the player and I think passed a medical, everything was in place and then all of a sudden the selling club threatens legal action because of the breach, then the deal falls through, and the player then signs a new contract after being close to leaving (without the release clause). If we were signing a player and that happened we'd be pissed off but wouldn't be expecting Aston Villa to unveil a banner about it when they play the selling team.

A contract especially in football is a two way thing. If Palace had perhaps met Glasner's expectations he wouldn't have wanted to leave and look for a new club. I'm surprised he didn't have better offers but it's just one in a link of players who they have let go. They sold Guehi and for a while it also looked like Mateta was on the way out too. I suppose Wharton will leave as well if the price is right. But that's not much different from us or any other selling club outside the big 6.
 
Been discussing Marinakis/the defamation case with a mate. I wrote this:

Marinakis is an interesting character. Some of his petulant behaviour at Forest I can’t defend (that tweet about the VAR being a Luton fan, going on the pitch, spitting on the ground near the ref). I’m also not naive enough to think that you can build a shipping, media and football empire in Greece by playing by the rules all the time. But I also think, particularly in Greece, he has created a lot of enemies and they are very happy to throw a lot of mud. I suspect that’s why he is so angry about the banner because he sees that as the same thing happening here. He has successfully defended every criminal charge that has been brought against him, which again, I know doesn’t necessarily mean he wasn’t guilty. But I tell you what, he has transformed Nottingham Forest on and off the field, as well as funding loads of amazing work in the local community that the national media never report on. Above all, he is in it because he loves (and understands) football. He’s not trying to make money or sportswash the reputation of a petrol state. There are many worse owners than Marinakis and us Forest fans love him. However, if I were him I would be spending my money on PR advisors rather than lawyers and go on a charm offensive to reframe the narrative around him. I don’t really see what he hopes to achieve with this defamation suit.
 
Been discussing Marinakis/the defamation case with a mate. I wrote this:

Marinakis is an interesting character. Some of his petulant behaviour at Forest I can’t defend (that tweet about the VAR being a Luton fan, going on the pitch, spitting on the ground near the ref). I’m also not naive enough to think that you can build a shipping, media and football empire in Greece by playing by the rules all the time. But I also think, particularly in Greece, he has created a lot of enemies and they are very happy to throw a lot of mud. I suspect that’s why he is so angry about the banner because he sees that as the same thing happening here. He has successfully defended every criminal charge that has been brought against him, which again, I know doesn’t necessarily mean he wasn’t guilty. But I tell you what, he has transformed Nottingham Forest on and off the field, as well as funding loads of amazing work in the local community that the national media never report on. Above all, he is in it because he loves (and understands) football. He’s not trying to make money or sportswash the reputation of a petrol state. There are many worse owners than Marinakis and us Forest fans love him. However, if I were him I would be spending my money on PR advisors rather than lawyers and go on a charm offensive to reframe the narrative around him. I don’t really see what he hopes to achieve with this defamation suit.
100% agree with this. Brilliant post.
 
When you build an shipping empire as he has, I reckon you do what you want in these situations rather than wait to be told what is a good idea.

If Palace still have a complaint about the Europa League "demotion" to the Conference I think they are a bit misguided. They ought instead to thank us. If they had been in the Europa they would have sunk without trace. Now they are in the Europa having won the competition they were "demoted" into. So they have had two throws of the dice. Be interesting to see their progress in Europe this year.
 
However, if I were him I would be spending my money on PR advisors rather than lawyers and go on a charm offensive to reframe the narrative around him. I don’t really see what he hopes to achieve with this defamation suit.
I'm not sure that there are many people on the planet who give less of a shit about what people think about him than Marinakis.
 
I'm not sure that there are many people on the planet who give less of a shit about what people think about him than Marinakis.
He does… but amongst the people that matter

Marinakis works hard to keep us onside, anyone on the outside he doesn’t give a toss.

Like he is going to put any effort into ensuring people like Steve Parish & Gary Neville have a positive opinion of him
 
Think he’s just as polarising in Greece, if not more so than here.

Lads off on his first holiday with his mates and they’ve gone to a Greek island, they’re all forest and probably have half the club shop with them!

They watched the Oly European game with a load of their fans in a bar and had a great time - bit of piss taking about Jota etc

Everybody seems to know Forest is Maranakis, even a Pana fan saying his English team is Derby!

Biggest example so far was when they hired a couple of pedlo’s, one of them got the Forest flag out and tied it to the slide. The lifeguard / pedlo bloke saw the flag and shouted out to sea “Marinakis”, lads shouted back yes and in perfect English got “fat ****” shouted back at them! 😂
 
We're a mid table Championship club playing in the Premier League because we have a proven track record of unearthing top talent and providing a stepping stone for players to get into the league and into top sides.

By not tying them down to long contracts or standing in their way when they want to move on we can encourage the next top prospects to do the same. We can't pay top dollar wages (compared to other Premier League sides) and we can't usually offer European football.

Our very business model that got us here is the same one that stops us progressing from here.
All true, a few slip through the net though and I just can’t make signing someone for 35million in January then swapping them for someone you almost signed for 10million (1year left on his contract) in the same window… a straight swap? I can only think Everton came out of that really well?
 
I don’t really see what he hopes to achieve with this defamation suit.
If it does nothing else it fires a massive warning shot across the bows of anyone who wants to say, or write allegations about him as happened in Greece.

If it makes people think twice then it will free up his time to concentrate on his businesses and football clubs rather than having to defend a host of false accusations because he tried to ignore them.
 

A decent read on the case. Some extracts:

Personally, I have little sympathy for the banner. Terrace culture is precious and protest is legitimate, supporters mocking an owner, however savagely, is part of the game’s fabric, and any legal action that chills it deserves scrutiny. But imputing serious criminality to a named individual, and depicting him executing his own player, is not protesting in any sense that I recognise as legitimate. It is the kind of display that makes the eventual legal reckoning almost inevitable, and Palace’s ultras have handed a serial and well-resourced litigant exactly the vehicle he needed.

A banner took thirty seconds to unfurl. The litigation it produced will likely outlast the careers of several of the players who were on the pitch. Football’s disputes used to end at the final whistle. Increasingly, that is where they begin.
 

A decent read on the case. Some extracts:

Personally, I have little sympathy for the banner. Terrace culture is precious and protest is legitimate, supporters mocking an owner, however savagely, is part of the game’s fabric, and any legal action that chills it deserves scrutiny. But imputing serious criminality to a named individual, and depicting him executing his own player, is not protesting in any sense that I recognise as legitimate. It is the kind of display that makes the eventual legal reckoning almost inevitable, and Palace’s ultras have handed a serial and well-resourced litigant exactly the vehicle he needed.

A banner took thirty seconds to unfurl. The litigation it produced will likely outlast the careers of several of the players who were on the pitch. Football’s disputes used to end at the final whistle. Increasingly, that is where they begin.
That was a very interesting read, the first I’ve seen from someone who apparently actually understands this stuff. Thanks for posting Trents!
 

A decent read on the case. Some extracts:

Personally, I have little sympathy for the banner. Terrace culture is precious and protest is legitimate, supporters mocking an owner, however savagely, is part of the game’s fabric, and any legal action that chills it deserves scrutiny. But imputing serious criminality to a named individual, and depicting him executing his own player, is not protesting in any sense that I recognise as legitimate. It is the kind of display that makes the eventual legal reckoning almost inevitable, and Palace’s ultras have handed a serial and well-resourced litigant exactly the vehicle he needed.

A banner took thirty seconds to unfurl. The litigation it produced will likely outlast the careers of several of the players who were on the pitch. Football’s disputes used to end at the final whistle. Increasingly, that is where they begin.
Good stuff. Yeah, thanks for posting, Trents.

I hope Maranakis takes em to the cleaners. Have at 'em.
 
Whomever made and brought the banner into the game will be sh*tting themselves. They won't have expected this, and against a bloke who is happy to take down enemies by any means necessary, legally.
It would be brilliant if they displayed another banner in Oct to dig themselves deeper into the hole. Parish should really step in but you get the sense the wet flannel is sh*t scared of upsetting his own 'fanatics'.
 
Wasn't there a story on here at the time that CP have an individual (the person unknown?) who oversees/checks/vets their ultras' banners, but who managed to somehow conveniently (or should that now be inconveniently) allow that one to evade his scrutiny?
 
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Wasn't there a story on here at the time that CP have an individual (the person unknown?) who oversees/checks/vets their ultras' banners, but who managed to somehow conveniently (or should that now be inconvently) allow that one to evade his scrutiny?
Yes. IIRC, (can't remember the guys name, but, he was named on one of the CPFC forums), he has a longstanding relationship with the group, and every banner that gets displayed within Selhurst Park has to be run past him (in the same way, I'm sure theres a guy at Forest who does similar, and every other club at this level), mainly for ground safety purposes, but, also, a legality/defamation purpose as well.

Seeing the Palace fans going "well, Marinakis will have to prove he isn't involved in all that", means that they don't realise, that he gets the exact same opportunity with them, and the opportunity to see what actions, discussions and other things (if any) occurred between the club, the ultras, and individuals (IIRC, it was a newer group within the Holmesdale that were responsible), and all it takes is one wrong word or phrase, and they leave themselves open.
 
I wonder what the process will be to try and identify the fans behind the making and displaying of the banner. I guess they could check CCTV to identify the people who were holding it up but they could have been asked by someone else in charge to hold it up for them. Maybe if the Palace 'ultras' are an organised fan group they will find out who is the leader of the organisation and go from there.
 
People suggesting we should identify the fans? That’s a bit far. Going after Palace for letting the Banner in is fair game (if pointless and petty IMO) but multi millionaire going after a couple of thick fans for hurty words is absolutely not fair game IMO.
 
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