Trents
Stuart Pearce
Dyche would have been briefed that he was only to be used as a last resort. You can't build your own team and consider any players in that situation.
Douglas Luiz Soares de Paulo
- Thread starter Marco Pascolo
- Start date
Osiris
Geoff Thomas
I think loans with obligations to buy based on minutes played are a bad move in general, injuries or not
How can you know whether you want to sign them permanently unless they play regularly? But then if you do play them regularly you could end up being obliged to sign a player you ultimately don't want
Notcher
Ian Bowyer
Match fitness is nothing like being fit in training mate. They're worlds apart.
Bing Crosby's Head
Geoff Thomas
Precisely. Only way to get him in was to agree to the terms and plenty of time to see if he was fit and useful without being forced into buying.
Monkman
John Robertson
Agreed, but my point is that he lacked general fitness, which could have been improved on outside of matches.
Anyway as has been said, he had plenty of opportunity to show he was worth the money, and failed to do so. We probably wouldn't have got him at all if we hadn't agreed to the terms that we did. Nothing ventured, nothing gained - I think the club did the right thing, it just didn't work out.
Trents
Stuart Pearce
It's certainly a risky dice to roll. I think our obligation to buy Wood was triggered by him putting his boots on in the changing room. Worked out ok in the end but remember feeling a bit annoyed at the time as by then he hadn't done much.
Osiris
Geoff Thomas
In that case we shouldn't have done the deal
bearwood red
First Team Squad
Exactly this. However, I can see why it was structured that way and it made sense at the time. We just didn’t realise how little impact he would make when he wasn’t injured.
vertigored
Viv Anderson
I think it’s a shame he didn’t work out. Massive skill level but either his body or his mind wouldn’t let him do it here.
eyupmeduck
Jack Armstrong
Lets move him to the ex thread before anyone realises that Nuno might have been right.
Monkman
John Robertson
Disagree - think it was worth rolling the dice. Could have worked out well, but the fact that it didn't hasn't really done any harm. You might say we could have loaned someone else instead, but then I'd point at all our recent loan signings to suggest that the chances of that paying off would have been low.
Matt
Stuart Pearce
Also fit within the team is a big part of it; he was, imo, brought in to be a Sangare replacement whilst he was at AFCON but I think Luiz is too similar to Anderson for the pairing to work. Lewis McGugan made the point on Forest focus and it really stuck with me.
The 15 game thing made sense to me as it basically gave us a get out of jail card if it didn’t work out; it hasn’t, he’ll be a much better fit as a Tielemans substitute at Villa and all the best for his career. No hard feelings here!
The 15 game thing made sense to me as it basically gave us a get out of jail card if it didn’t work out; it hasn’t, he’ll be a much better fit as a Tielemans substitute at Villa and all the best for his career. No hard feelings here!
TrickyTree101
First Team Squad
Agree worth a gamble, you could see at times he was above anyone else when playing. Will be interesting to see how he does at Villa. If he plays really well and dominates the midfield then you will have to ask questions about why that is.
However, I think his injuries have taken a toll and will end up next season in Saudi or somewhere else where it is a bit easier to play.
However, I think his injuries have taken a toll and will end up next season in Saudi or somewhere else where it is a bit easier to play.
Glad he has gone we need fighters and players who are prepared to put their bodies on the line over the next 15 EPL games. Maybe the system and style of play did not suit Luiz but his application at times looked poor and his injury record is a massive concern.
We need to get Sangare tied down to a new deal ASAP. Anderson will be gone in the summer so need to make sure we get players locked in who we have a good chance of keeping.
We need to get Sangare tied down to a new deal ASAP. Anderson will be gone in the summer so need to make sure we get players locked in who we have a good chance of keeping.
PlayedOnGrass
Geoff Thomas
Why - what has it really cost us?
I guess 6 months wages - but to me it was worth taking the opportunity if we could get a top quality player at a fairly low cost.
It will be interesting to see how he goes at Villa. I actually hope he succeeds as when fit and on form he was a quality player.
Trents
Stuart Pearce
See, Villa have it right. Loan with option to buy rather than loan with obligation to buy.
All the pressure off a possible big outlay and the player busting a gut in the meantime to prove he's worth signing.
All the pressure off a possible big outlay and the player busting a gut in the meantime to prove he's worth signing.
EmmersonForest4
Steve Chettle
I think it shows how poor leadership is at Forest. Lots of perfectly good players that good teams want are being disregarded. I think it would be really unfair to blame Edu for this. This falls squarely on marankis. Hes obvioulsy told Edu what kind of squad he wants with the view of hiring Ange. All we had to do was hire a much better manager than Ange in that style like Iraiola or Silva 
No Maranakis has reverted back to a Nuno type squad with a poorer version of Nuno and its gonna cost us a fortune in players as we have to rejig again. Terrible look by the club at the moment.
No Maranakis has reverted back to a Nuno type squad with a poorer version of Nuno and its gonna cost us a fortune in players as we have to rejig again. Terrible look by the club at the moment.
eyupmeduck
Jack Armstrong
I hold Edu almost entirely accountable for this transfer though, Luiz agent and him are so closely connected and the deal simply would not have been on the table if those parties weren't besties. Bigger picture maybe its worth a conversation as to how Marinakis has given such a big role and responsibility to Edu but its unfortunately a transfer that has Joorabchian and Edus sticky little fingers all over it.I think it shows how poor leadership is at Forest. Lots of perfectly good players that good teams want are being disregarded. I think it would be really unfair to blame Edu for this. This falls squarely on marankis. Hes obvioulsy told Edu what kind of squad he wants with the view of hiring Ange. All we had to do was hire a much better manager than Ange in that style like Iraiola or Silva
PlayedOnGrass
Geoff Thomas
This doesn't make sense, you are basically saying that it is EM's fault that he told Edu to buy players that everyone else wants - surely that's a good thing?I think it shows how poor leadership is at Forest. Lots of perfectly good players that good teams want are being disregarded. I think it would be really unfair to blame Edu for this. This falls squarely on marankis. Hes obvioulsy told Edu what kind of squad he wants with the view of hiring Ange. All we had to do was hire a much better manager than Ange in that style like Iraiola or Silva
Monkman
John Robertson
It's not the same scenario now though - Juve either lower their requirement or get stuck with a player they don't want.
Bohinens_chip
First Team Squad
No ill feelings. All gone into it with good intentions but just not worked out.
Reminds me of a large number of high profile loanees we had from the prem during our championship malaise.
Reminds me of a large number of high profile loanees we had from the prem during our championship malaise.
Master Yates
Stuart Pearce
I’m not convinced about all this lack of commitment talk. I didn’t see a player that didn’t want to be here.
But he couldn’t get match fit without a run of games and he couldn’t get a run of games without any match fitness. The conditional obligation hanging over us meant we couldn’t risk it. As Notch said, like an interminable death loop.
Best for everyone that he moves on. Him and Zinchenko leaving will save us millions for the rest of the season.
I thought Luiz looked a class player though. Be interesting to see how he gets on at Villa and if he continues to miss games with injury. Could be something in this whole “muscle issue” story if true.
But he couldn’t get match fit without a run of games and he couldn’t get a run of games without any match fitness. The conditional obligation hanging over us meant we couldn’t risk it. As Notch said, like an interminable death loop.
Best for everyone that he moves on. Him and Zinchenko leaving will save us millions for the rest of the season.
I thought Luiz looked a class player though. Be interesting to see how he gets on at Villa and if he continues to miss games with injury. Could be something in this whole “muscle issue” story if true.
Trents
Stuart Pearce
Certainly wasn't putting 100% in at Wrexham or Braga, far from it.
Osiris
Geoff Thomas
Ultimately besides six months' wages, nothing
The point is it wasn't' a deal worth doing on those terms - he needed consistent game time to get match fit but we were never going to give it to him whilst there were fitness doubts for fear of triggering the OTB, so he couldn't get fit, thus the doubts worsened and round and round we go. The OTB meant it was always a deal likely to fail, and that's exactly what happened
Without the obligation we could have played him into proper match fitness and be talking about what a great player we have instead of lamenting his failure here
We're fortunate that there's a club willing to take him off our hands as let's be honest with the exception one half of football against Betis he's been rubbish
PlayedOnGrass
Geoff Thomas
From what I am reading elsewhere it was us that cancelled his contract - not Juve