Does anyone remember League 1 Derby County?

Raymondo Ponte'

It's all about mid-table...
He's certainly not the richest Greek ship owner (somewhere in the top ten, if I remember correctly). Those lists supposedly measuring a person's personal net worth (I have no idea on their accuracy), usually have EM on $700m, and I remember a table with Premier owners and their net worth, and he's at no 18, if that helps.
So our owner is the 3rd poorest in the league?

Ahh well, it's not what yuv got, it's where ya stick it ! 🚢
 

Notcher

Jack Burkitt
FAO Notcher, how does this tally with what you heard?
I heard nothing about this tbh Tiff. I heard Clowes was interested in the stadium a while back but it appeared to go cold.

The pieces I've heard are vastly different in nature and still to come out.



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Tiff

Matchday Squad
I heard nothing about this tbh Tiff. I heard Clowes was interested in the stadium a while back but it appeared to go cold.

The pieces I've heard are vastly different in nature and still to come out.



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Ohh good, so more drama to follow. Has Clowes only bought the stadium and not the training ground?
 

EmmersonForest4

Stuart Pearce
Nah, unfortunately the Clowes deal is exactly what they need really:
1) Unites the club and the stadium again.
2) Will steady the ship financially and most likely see an end to silly celebrity appointments like Lampard and Rooney.
3) Will keep them ticking over until their embargo ends in 2023; at that point they'll be able to attract a much better buyer than tyre kickers (like Alonso and Kirchner), people who are skint (Appleby) and vultures like Mike Ashley.

As much as I'd like to take the piss, they'll be in a far better state 12 months down the line than they are now.
I agree with you Ashley but I also think the new guy is a businessman so they’ll be shit on the pitch for the next few years a bit like Bolton but as I have also said it’s exactly what they need. There is no need to worry about on the pitch stuff u tip you sort the off the pitch stuff. It’s also quite liberating not having any expectations on the pitch and you can actually have some longer term plans which is rare in football.

I never wanted them to die I just wanted them to take their financial medicine and now they will seem to do it now.
 

Rzar

Ian Bowyer
He might be fourth "poorest" (I think that net worth is well out of date by the way - that was his apparent net worth when he got us and since then there has not only been a shipping boom but he's bought a load of other businesses too) but most of them are investment funds. They have access to capital but they probably don't have, or want the spending power that an individual owner will.

Most of them are so wealthy because they are tight bastards. All the American owners on that list may as well have £5 to their name because they aren't putting any money into their clubs.
 

Daniel H

A. Trialist
They've already shaved £23m off their debt to MSD by buying the stadium and training ground. Owning their ground means they no longer pay rent either too, so they are already better off than they were before.

Football creditors will need to be paid in full for the takeover to complete (as well as a pennies in the pound deal to unsecured creditors). No financial cans being kicked there, it has to be paid for them to own the club.

The only question mark is what happens with the £36m they owe to the HMRC, which is anyone's guess really.

It's extremely unlikely that they'll get liquidated at this point. The worst is over for them (unfortunately). Probably still will be shit on the pitch next season mind, so there's that at least!
That £23m debt was in the stadium company wasn’t it? not on Derby county and the stadium company wasn’t in admin. So in theory no debt has actually reduced in the club itself or a perhaps a small secured debt, which has been settled 100%. Don’t think that would please the HMRC would it?
 

T.B.T.

Forum Princess

alabamared

Stuart Pearce
He might be fourth "poorest" (I think that net worth is well out of date by the way - that was his apparent net worth when he got us and since then there has not only been a shipping boom but he's bought a load of other businesses too) but most of them are investment funds. They have access to capital but they probably don't have, or want the spending power that an individual owner will.

Most of them are so wealthy because they are tight bastards. All the American owners on that list may as well have £5 to their name because they aren't putting any money into their clubs.
You are right. That list was dated 30th May but sorting out fact from fiction as regards individual wealth is not easy and as you succinctly point out more relevent is how much they are prepared to bankroll the club.
 

Ashley

Stuart Pearce
Clowes owns the ground, not Derby County. Big difference.
He'll own the club as well in a matter of days, unless there is some sort of disaster lurking in the shadows that hasn't been reported yet (though it doesn't seem likely).

That £23m debt was in the stadium company wasn’t it? not on Derby county and the stadium company wasn’t in admin. So in theory no debt has actually reduced in the club itself or a perhaps a small secured debt, which has been settled 100%. Don’t think that would please the HMRC would it?
The £23m secured against the stadium is still the clubs debt; that money is the loans that have been propping up Derby for a few years now. It needed to be cleared by someone for the club to survive.
 

Daniel H

A. Trialist
The £23m secured against the stadium is still the clubs debt; that money is the loans that have been propping up Derby for a few years now. It needed to be cleared by someone for the club to survive.
Oh I see what you are saying. Yes, you are quite right.

As I understood it - Aside from the other monies owed - Mel set up the company and brought the stadium. - For that Derby received £85m.

Derby, later needed further funds of £20m so Mel financed this by personally borrowing from MSD and lodged the security against the stadium, which was now owned by a company Under his personal ownership) He also had an additional personal guarantee lodged against this £20m loan. Which was set against 2 flats in Chelsea and a house in sandbanks.

Mel then loaned that £20m to Derby which then meant the debt was to Mel and not to MSD.

So if the stadium was sold and ignoring the additional sums borrowed by Quantuma - the actual £20m original borrowings was the amounts Derby owed to Mel and not other creditors.

I do see what you are saying and you are quite correct, it does shave off their debt, but from my last knowledge - Derby owed Mel personally £160m or thereabouts and I would have usually considered that being a 100% write off much like Nigel Doughty wrote off the sums that he invested into the club. Happy to be corrected of course.
 

valspoodle

Steve Chettle
He still has to charge market rent as the club doesn’t own it.

Not sure how easy it is to sell to the club, especially as they have no money.
I was thinking about the re-selling of the club. As I understand it, it's a temporary deal to stop the club going under.

But they have to shell out a shed load of money first just to keep the wolf from the door, then run it for however long it takes to find a new owner.

I reckon they will almost certainly lose money on this deal because the amount they need to spend now will dwarf the actual cost price of a club in League 1 when they put it on the market.
 

eyupmeduck

First Team Squad
From a simple maths point of view, the stadium changing hands means that they have circa £8m football debts and then 25% or 35% over 3 years for the rest?

Still huge numbers that he's not going to see a return on for some time.

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Ashley

Stuart Pearce
Assuming HMRC sign up to the 25/35%
I think the 25/35% is unsecured creditors, so doesn't include HMRC.

Hard to say what the HMRC's demands are as there has just been silence on that matter from all sides. My guess is that they will want full payment but may agree to a payment plan across a number of years, but who knows?
 

Collymore!

Grenville Morris
Must have been more than £20m for the (let's call it MSD debt) as there was interest, and also they've borrowed throughout the season from MSD at intervals - maybe Mel's contributed to clearing the rest of what he owe's MSD.

Clowes needs to potentially clear £35m in HMRC, £6m in football creditors, then unsecured, after this, they'll own the club. Then they'll need to put in £Xm a season to cover running costs and build a team (via wages).

tbf if he's doing this to reunite the club and stadium/training ground and stabilise, before reselling, then fair fucks. If he does sell on then they'll probably take a £20m+ loss (depending on the HMRC situation) and that's if they get back to some kind of sustainability. If it was Forest then I'd be more than happy to lose £20m of my £250m fortune to avoid us going pop!

Wouldn't be too surprised to see it being sold to Ashley within a fortnight.
 

Ashley

Stuart Pearce
Must have been more than £20m for the (let's call it MSD debt) as there was interest, and also they've borrowed throughout the season from MSD at intervals - maybe Mel's contributed to clearing the rest of what he owe's MSD.

Clowes needs to potentially clear £35m in HMRC, £6m in football creditors, then unsecured, after this, they'll own the club. Then they'll need to put in £Xm a season to cover running costs and build a team (via wages).

tbf if he's doing this to reunite the club and stadium/training ground and stabilise, before reselling, then fair fucks. If he does sell on then they'll probably take a £20m+ loss (depending on the HMRC situation) and that's if they get back to some kind of sustainability. If it was Forest then I'd be more than happy to lose £20m of my £250m fortune to avoid us going pop!

Wouldn't be too surprised to see it being sold to Ashley within a fortnight.
I reckon he'll sell in 2023 when their embargo ends; they'll be more attractive to potential buyers then.

He'll keep them ticking over with minimum investment into the playing squad until then.
 
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