Does anyone remember League 1 Derby County?

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
Glad Maguire brought up the HMRC issue on the POF podcast today because there never seems to be much discussion about it (in the media).

Notcher (or anyone else who is clued up about these things), what is the likelihood - in the event of Ashley or Appleby getting something through - of HMRC bending and accepting a much lower percentage of what they (we, the taxpayer!) are owed or being a final, immovable object that fucks the whole thing?
Whatever the legalities, you can bet your bottom dollar that if Ashley or Appleby do buy the omnishambles, HM Government will lean on HMRC and tell them not to rock the boat, and to accept a penny in the pound. It won't be like when I forgot to declare a few quid in dividends many years ago, and the HMRC hounded me, and imposed interest (they refrained from penalties, as I pleaded temporary loss of memory).
 

Ashley

Stuart Pearce
Poor old Daws. What's he doing that draw for?

He played the top level for the most of his career and was an England international. He should be covering the Premier League, not this tin pot rubbish.

Clinton Morrison is in the right place though.
Has Dawson even played at a level lower than the Championship? Not exactly a name you'd associate with lower league football, is he?
 

eyupmeduck

First Team Squad
That kind of thinking is fatal

At present they've got 7 players of whom at least 2 want away and no kit.

Accrington have a squad of 22 players (One called Michael Nottingham) in comparison, I know who is actually in the best position.

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Ashley

Stuart Pearce
TBH/TBF we were exactly the same.
A lot of 'bigger' clubs are. Though most clubs (ourselves included) don't have anywhere near the problems Derby have, and there's been so many big clubs drop down to that level and struggle over the years that you think people would know better by now.
 

Ashley

Stuart Pearce
At present they've got 7 players of whom at least 2 want away and no kit.

Accrington have a squad of 22 players (One called Michael Nottingham) in comparison, I know who is actually in the best position.

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Other than Stretton and Bielik, I don't see any of those players being there next season either.

I really don't think they even remotely comprehend the situation that they are in.
 

NFFCMagz

First Team Squad
Whatever the legalities, you can bet your bottom dollar that if Ashley or Appleby do buy the omnishambles, HM Government will lean on HMRC and tell them not to rock the boat, and to accept a penny in the pound. It won't be like when I forgot to declare a few quid in dividends many years ago, and the HMRC hounded me, and imposed interest (they refrained from penalties, as I pleaded temporary loss of memory).
Appreciate that, Captain.

But that would render any new status HMRC has completely impotent in the case of future football administrations?

I can only, in my mind, see HMRC standing at the end of all this holding a big shovel next to a big hole. Whoever is trying to deal with them either fills the pit with cash - right up to the top - or gets the shovel around the back of the head and goes in the hole themselves.
 

Notcher

Jack Burkitt
Glad Maguire brought up the HMRC issue on the POF podcast today because there never seems to be much discussion about it (in the media).

Notcher (or anyone else who is clued up about these things), what is the likelihood - in the event of Ashley or Appleby getting something through - of HMRC bending and accepting a much lower percentage of what they (we, the taxpayer!) are owed or being a final, immovable object that fucks the whole thing?

I spoke about this a month or so ago and mentioned my recent experiences with a couple of clients which was that they knocked back CVA proposals and demanded the full amount, that's never happened to me before.

I'd say it's very likely they will demand the full amount considering virtually everyone else within the proposal would be looking at receiving 100% back including MM because his MSD debt would be cleared. Throw into the mix that they have fought tooth and nail to become a preferential creditor for years, I just can't see them backing down.

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Ashley

Stuart Pearce
HMRC accepting pennies in the pound opens the door for them to lose an absolute fortune in the future, as Derby's case will set a precedent. It is important that they stand firm, because the implications of not doing so could lead to other football clubs robbing the taxpayer of millions going forwards.
 

Rzar

Ian Bowyer
Kieran Maguire now saying what I've been trying to tell Derby supporters since the beginning regarding HMRC


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Maguire does always look at the bright side of things and try to be positive about it.

When he says "i'm starting to get twitchy" though.... :love:

£40m+ IF HMRC accept pennies is hilarious.
 

Winnits

Viv Anderson
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Redemption

Bastards on the Road
A lot of 'bigger' clubs are. Though most clubs (ourselves included) don't have anywhere near the problems Derby have, and there's been so many big clubs drop down to that level and struggle over the years that you think people would know better by now.
Absolutely. Even though we had Gary Megson at he helm, we were confident off an immediate bounceback. Well, it didn't take long before we had to suck that one up.

But our situation then is no where as grave as Direby.

By the end of October I was literally a changed person. I only missed two games all season, Yeovil away - the infamous fans in the changing room game - and whatever home game came after. I was away in Ibiza, and I spent from the Monday after Yeovil till my flight home on the Saturday, re-programming myself as I started to accep life in League 1! Over the next 4 months, until Megson was sacked after Oldham, I was facing the stark futility of it all :eek:
 
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Rzar

Ian Bowyer
Absolutely. Even though we had Gary Megson at he helm, we were confident off an immediate bounceback. Well, it didn't take long before we had to suck that one up.

But our situation then is no where as grave as Direby.
Rooney might start to find it difficult if he's actually required to win a game of football.

That's if he even stays.
 

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
Absolutely. Even though we had Gary Megson at he helm, we were confident off an immediate bounceback. Well, it didn't take long before we had to suck that one up.

But our situation then is no where as grave as Direby.
How can you say our situation wasn't as bad as theirs... we had GARY MEGSON running things!
 

Ashley

Stuart Pearce
Rooney might start to find it difficult if he's actually required to win a game of football.

That's if he even stays.
He'll bugger off in the next few weeks. Just collecting his money and waiting for his agent to advise him of the optimum time to jump ship to protect his reputation.
 

NFFCMagz

First Team Squad
Thank you to those of you who have replied to my question.

Notcher - I absolutely know that you (and others here) have been mentioning it for some time. My point was that in the media, whenever all these bids - be it Kirchner, Ashley or Appleby - it's very rarely mentioned. It's all talk about the football creditors, the stadium, 25p/35p in the £, etc but not the HMRC and the rather large issue that if they reject a reduced offer, it blows everything out of that water.

HMRC themselves don't seem to have made a peep about any of it, although I'd imagine that's fairly standard practice for them. I can't imagine discussions haven't been had . . . . . but I wouldn't put it past Quantuma! Wouldn't HMRC approach the administrators (privately) in what is something of a high profile case with daily media coverage?
 

Statto

Free Kick Specialist
Becuase no matter what he did, we still had some fortune of having players like Brekin, Trigger, Commons, etc. That was still a modicum of advantage over what the sheep have got.
Remember also that in spite of the Ginger Mourinho being there we were so close to actually making the play offs due to the run we went on under Barlow/McParland after he had gone.

That squad was better than the results he got out of it.

With a smarter appointment (or maybe even if Kinnear hadn't quit) we might have had more chance of staying up.
 

Yeezy

First Team Squad
Oh.

They really don’t realise what is coming to them, do they?

I've seen a few comments as well that talk about games being moved for TV...

Sky don't give a shit about League One do they? Be lucky if you get 4 games a season on telly down there
 

Notcher

Jack Burkitt
Thank you to those of you who have replied to my question.

Notcher - I absolutely know that you (and others here) have been mentioning it for some time. My point was that in the media, whenever all these bids - be it Kirchner, Ashley or Appleby - it's very rarely mentioned. It's all talk about the football creditors, the stadium, 25p/35p in the £, etc but not the HMRC and the rather large issue that if they reject a reduced offer, it blows everything out of that water.

HMRC themselves don't seem to have made a peep about any of it, although I'd imagine that's fairly standard practice for them. I can't imagine discussions haven't been had . . . . . but I wouldn't put it past Quantuma! Wouldn't HMRC approach the administrators (privately) in what is something of a high profile case with daily media coverage?
One of the first things you do is approach HMRC to gauge their response. I have a good relationship with several staff at different offices. I'll usually outline the issue and what's caused the problems. If it's no fault of the directors and you're hopeful of recovering a reasonable amount back they're normally quite good at giving you an indication.

In this case and in my experience, due to the amount owed and the details of the causes being in the public domain they will probably flat out refuse to give any indication and tell them they will respond once they have seen the proposals in full.

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