Davies or Clough

sedgred

Banned
So after a brief honeymoon period, it is all dark clouds and gloom over the City Ground again. Despite Forest failings, this mood seems in some quarters to be exaggerated by the success our sheep bothering rivals seem to have achieved, since the appointment of our former hero and Son of the legend.

Because I have no intrest in their results apart from when they play or their result maybe dictates something else in the league which affects Forest. As you wish to assess Forest's position or plight depending on your view, remove the sheep out of the equation, before you look long and hard at Forest.

Reason for this Dirby, were in the Premier League last year, the season before, they led for some time the CCC before gaining promotion via the play-offs. After promotion they strengthened their squad in an attempt to stave off relegation, they failed but and returned to the CCC with maybe a better squad than they were promoted with. They had a very poor Manager in Jewell, seem to have a return of confidence under the new man.

We enjoyed similar a few years ago getting rid of a pressure Manager and the the players all relaxed for a while under Charlie and Frank...................still failed though when the real pressure was on the squad again. Their man has to earn his spurs after the honeymoon period he/they are enjoying at the moment. So forget them and their results until it affects Forest.

We appointed BD, not a universally popular appointment, yet certainly a man with the correct pedigree for this division. Davies is also no others side's failure either. It seems the man can do no right in some peoples eye's, he is media savvy, he will think about what he says's and more importantly fails to say.

I am sick and tired of reading that bids were made to appease the fans, nothing I can say will alter that, but just imagine as you post............... it is hardly rocket science to understand that if Forest are relegated that a huge drop in income follows.

So why on earth, in the wildest ramblings of some, can you imagine the Forest Board say doing their sums....Player A will cost us £500,000+ wages, NI etc, him and the other target at £650,00 +wages etc will be a big help towards the fight against relegation. In steps ND or MA according to your hate figure, ''Stop right there........by not buying these players, we will save £1.25 Million, relegation will only cost us £8 Million, but we must put in silly bids so the fans who have moaned loud and long will stop moaning at us!'' Go on admit it even their fiercest critics must think they have managed to spot that one ::)

Davies say's he has been appointed to build a team, he was slagged off for many of his comments regarding what he would regard as his biggest achievement. But he is a tried and tested man who does not suffer fools easily, including Chairman.

For me, I loved Nigel Clough, but he out of the question, as are his team, take a long hard look at us and I feel we will be fine, the Manager knows what he wants, he knows how to manage, give him time because at this stage I still feel he is a far better appointment for the future of Forest, rather than our old no 9.

Time and patience must be the watchword from, now until the end of the season. We must look forward and help the team, rather than creating so many negative vibes.
 

Strummer

Vorsprung durch Technik
LTLF Minion
Amen to that.

We do not have sufficient depth in the squad to compete at the top of the Championship. We know this, and so does Mr. Davies.

Billy isn't a fool, nor does he suffer them. One accusation levelled at Colin Calderwood was that he was *too* nice. Billy isn't. He's an old-fashioned, in-your-face football man, who won't molly-coddle his handsomely-paid players, if he thinks they need a kick up the arse, he will give them one.

And more power to him for that - it's refreshing to hear a manager who tells it like it is. We've been in League One for three years, and we don't - yet - have the resources to compete.

Billy wants to keep us up, and I hope (and think) he will. Give him the time, and next season we can start to consolidate and kick on. He's been successful in this League at each club he has been with, and knows what he is doing.

Lets leave the Manager to manage!
 

gazzaw

Youth Team
Sedge, I don't really see how we can make an even comparison at this juncture.

The players & squad that Nige has inherited are (potentially) head & shoulders above us whereas BC has, granted, inherited some quality who sadly most of which are now injured.

In reality I think we need to ask this question in 18 months time.

Give the two a season head to head & lets see then
 

sedgred

Banned
sedgred said:
Reason for this Dirby, were in the Premier League last year, the season before, they led for some time the CCC before gaining promotion via the play-offs. After promotion they strengthened their squad in an attempt to stave off relegation, they failed but and returned to the CCC with maybe a better squad than they were promoted with. They had a very poor Manager in Jewell, seem to have a return of confidence under the new man.

We enjoyed similar a few years ago getting rid of a pressure Manager and the the players all relaxed for a while under Charlie and Frank...................still failed though when the real pressure was on the squad again. Their man has to earn his spurs after the honeymoon period he/they are enjoying at the moment. So forget them and their results until it affects Forest.


For me, I loved Nigel Clough, but he out of the question, as are his team, take a long hard look at us and I feel we will be fine, the Manager knows what he wants, he knows how to manage, give him time because at this stage I still feel he is a far better appointment for the future of Forest, rather than our old no 9.

Sorry if I failed to make that clear, basically I was trying to make the point that comparisons between the two are indeed out of the question, there seems to be a growing swell of disallusion about BD, I wanted to try and offer an alternate view .
 
M

Monk De Wally De Honk

Guest
sedgred said:
Davies say's he has been appointed to build a team, he was slagged off for many of his comments regarding what he would regard as his biggest achievement. But he is a tried and tested man who does not suffer fools easily, including Chairman.

For me, I loved Nigel Clough, but he out of the question, as are his team, take a long hard look at us and I feel we will be fine, the Manager knows what he wants, he knows how to manage, give him time because at this stage I still feel he is a far better appointment for the future of Forest, rather than our old no 9.

Time and patience must be the watchword from, now until the end of the season. We must look forward and help the team, rather than creating so many negative vibes.

amen sedge
 

Ricky27

First Team Squad
sedgred said:
So after a brief honeymoon period, it is all dark clouds and gloom over the City Ground again. Despite Forest failings, this mood seems in some quarters to be exaggerated by the success our sheep bothering rivals seem to have achieved, since the appointment of our former hero and Son of the legend.

Because I have no intrest in their results apart from when they play or their result maybe dictates something else in the league which affects Forest. As you wish to assess Forest's position or plight depending on your view, remove the sheep out of the equation, before you look long and hard at Forest.

Reason for this Dirby, were in the Premier League last year, the season before, they led for some time the CCC before gaining promotion via the play-offs. After promotion they strengthened their squad in an attempt to stave off relegation, they failed but and returned to the CCC with maybe a better squad than they were promoted with. They had a very poor Manager in Jewell, seem to have a return of confidence under the new man.

We enjoyed similar a few years ago getting rid of a pressure Manager and the the players all relaxed for a while under Charlie and Frank...................still failed though when the real pressure was on the squad again. Their man has to earn his spurs after the honeymoon period he/they are enjoying at the moment. So forget them and their results until it affects Forest.

We appointed BD, not a universally popular appointment, yet certainly a man with the correct pedigree for this division. Davies is also no others side's failure either. It seems the man can do no right in some peoples eye's, he is media savvy, he will think about what he says's and more importantly fails to say.

I am sick and tired of reading that bids were made to appease the fans, nothing I can say will alter that, but just imagine as you post............... it is hardly rocket science to understand that if Forest are relegated that a huge drop in income follows.

So why on earth, in the wildest ramblings of some, can you imagine the Forest Board say doing their sums....Player A will cost us £500,000+ wages, NI etc, him and the other target at £650,00 +wages etc will be a big help towards the fight against relegation. In steps ND or MA according to your hate figure, ''Stop right there........by not buying these players, we will save £1.25 Million, relegation will only cost us £8 Million, but we must put in silly bids so the fans who have moaned loud and long will stop moaning at us!'' Go on admit it even their fiercest critics must think they have managed to spot that one ::)

Davies say's he has been appointed to build a team, he was slagged off for many of his comments regarding what he would regard as his biggest achievement. But he is a tried and tested man who does not suffer fools easily, including Chairman.

For me, I loved Nigel Clough, but he out of the question, as are his team, take a long hard look at us and I feel we will be fine, the Manager knows what he wants, he knows how to manage, give him time because at this stage I still feel he is a far better appointment for the future of Forest, rather than our old no 9.

Time and patience must be the watchword from, now until the end of the season. We must look forward and help the team, rather than creating so many negative vibes.

Spot on post!

Even if it is frustrating at times at lack of signings etc, BD knows how to manage and we need to trust him.
 

bono1975

Viv Anderson
Very well put sedgred.

Looking at all the recent posts regarding not getting players in either buying or loaning nobody has mentioned what Davies said when he came in. The transfer window takes months of planning and I for one believe him. I also do not believe the club are not getting players in on purpose. Listen to what Billy said last night. Premiership players in on loan have massive wages and clubs in the championship do not want to help fellow championship clubs out. I know teams around us have signed various players but hand on heart would you really want any of the players they signed? At a push two or three maybe.

Last night after listening to the game on the radio I found myself nodding my head in agreement and listening to every last word Billy said. When listening to Calderwood I found myself thinking I had been to a different game.

I have special memories of Nigel Clough also. I remember going to Wembley for the first time with my Dad watching him score two past Luton. Clough was my hero but that is now in the past.

So I would have Billy Davies over him every day of the week. Given time and money he will take this club up the league and we will begin to compete week in week out. Derby maybe doing well now but wait for a couple of defeats and their unrealistic fans will soon turn. Billy has been here a few weeks please for the sake of the club and the future get behind him and more importantly the team.
 

mouldy

Viv Anderson
I think you have to compare the inherited squads aswell.

Look at Clough's HUGE investment has gone into it. Teale, Hulse, Commons even are all tried and tested at this level and very highly regarded then if things get difficult they can turn to the bench where the likes of Nathan Ellington are sat at the moment amongst a host of over quality names.

Then look at what BD has inherited a youthful squad with a major injury crisis that has been on going all season.

The tasks are so much different and judging by the start that Derby made under Clough I think at forest he would've sunk miserably. He could still do that at Derby yet.
 

Erik

oopsy daisy!
LTLF Minion
Nigel Clough will probably go on to be a very successful, even a great, manager.

If he had been given the Forest Job he would have failed, like so many before him, and his reputation would have been dented and possibly even his career ruined.

Forest choosing BD as their manager was probably the best decision for everyone.
 

sedgred

Banned
Bumped this for those fans, who have enjoyed Kicking Billy's backside in another thread....................I despair far more about our supposed fan base than I do our team.
 
C

clusternakker

Guest
That arse kick thread is just jest. In all seriousness, Billy's media persona is starting to annoy a lot of fans, he's constantly complaining about the youth and the fact they aren't good enough but he's had 6 or 7 weeks to do something about it, yet he hasn't. He's basically complaining about something he is ultimately responsible for. He needs a kick up the backside i think.
 

Forever Forest

Geoff Thomas
I blame Calderwood for not strengthening appropraitely in the summer with 'experiance'. BD is doing his best to bring in sum quality, but you can see it is difficult to bring in quality players at this season. Look at what CC did last seaso bringing in the lad from Reading - Henry, who scored a belter the other night for millwall. He didnt even get a game at ours did he?

Lets win today, finish 4th bottom then rebuild in the summer and there is no better man to do that at this level than BD.

Im buzzing about today - anything could happen

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C

clusternakker

Guest
I'm sure if BD was doing his best we'd have seen at least a loan signing. James Henry didn't get a game simply down to his attitude, he was sent back to Reading quite sharpish.
 

Squibbit

Geoff Thomas
This is the way I'm trying to look at it

Davies has come in and taken over a squad which everybody knows is understrength, lightweight and lacking experience. We have had a spate of injuries to key positions ... all of which have happened as we've gone into a run of games against top end teams

His interviews are refreshingly honest and as far as I can see he has said everything that has been said on here. The post match interview on Wednesday showed his frustration, the same frustration that I felt. His words are picked over and every inflection analysed but the basic context of what he said was spot on and something that we all know. There are players not pulling their weight and some of the guys on the pitch currently representing Forest are out of their depth - it's not rocket science really

Transfers / loans etc - I think that the intention to improve is hampering us - it means that we are going after players that teams want to keep which means making substantially over the odds offers. The Rob Jones farago showed this perfectly - he's the club captain pf a team in a steady financial situation. If we have a valuation on him of £500K for example and they won't consider selling for less than £1.2 million then it would be foolish to pay out.

Realistically could anyone have expected us honestly to take points from Cardiff or Birmingham. Ipswich were an average team and one were we might have gotten a draw on a good / lucky day. Today's match is more a matter of survival than anything else. Direby are visiting after a relatively easy last couple of matches and with a resurgent team. I would be happy with a draw to be honest. What I would be more interested in is the same fixture next year - when both managers have had a chance to build and strengthen over the summer

Short term things are looking bleak, but longer term I am confident that Billy is the right man for the job. I somehow doubt that the CG will be ringing to chants of "You don't know what you're doing" - the guy obviously does
 

WoS

First Team Squad
clusternakker said:
That arse kick thread is just jest. In all seriousness, Billy's media persona is starting to annoy a lot of fans, he's constantly complaining about the youth and the fact they aren't good enough but he's had 6 or 7 weeks to do something about it, yet he hasn't. He's basically complaining about something he is ultimately responsible for. He needs a kick up the backside i think.

I didn't hear it as complaining, more just a statement of fact and he repeated a few times that he has been doing everything he can, to try and bring some new players in and will continue to do so. How do you make players come if they or their clubs just don't want to? We appear to be in a very vulnerable position just now, possibly not the most attractive proposition for the kind of players that we really need.

I for one am encouraged by his honesty and passion, even if sometimes the truth he tells is not what we want to hear.
 

Randy Bumgardener

AKA Randy Bumgardener
WoS said:
I didn't hear it as complaining, more just a statement of fact and he repeated a few times that he has been doing everything he can, to try and bring some new players in and will continue to do so. How do you make players come if they or their clubs just don't want to? We appear to be in a very vulnerable position just now, possibly not the most attractive proposition for the kind of players that we really need.

I for one am encouraged by his honesty and passion, even if sometimes the truth he tells is not what we want to hear.

I think yopu hit it there.

He is an unusually honest and blatant manager. But he seems to be intent on letting the fans know exactly where the club stands. I think he sees the next 15 games as a case of 'grin and bear with what we have and what we are facing' as it seems he is keen to take a very active part of the summer transfer window !
 

WoS

First Team Squad
Randy Bumgardener - A True American Hero said:
I think yopu hit it there.

He is an unusually honest and blatant manager. But he seems to be intent on letting the fans know exactly where the club stands. I think he sees the next 15 games as a case of 'grin and bear with what we have and what we are facing' as it seems he is keen to take a very active part of the summer transfer window !

Citing aint it! Or at least it will be if I don't drop dead of sheer anxiety between now and then!! ;D
 
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