Damned United Two

earthworm

earthworm

Jack Burkitt
Just watched the Damned Utd. I found it entertaining, although maybe I can see why Cloughie's family didn't take to it, it was quite revealing at times shall we say, leaving Clough's less desirable traits on show, perhaps a bit too much.

It didn't half leave me wanting to watch the sequel anyway. Surely another one about Forest is worth making?

It did show what Forest did briefly at the end, but its enough material for a film of its own. But maybe I'm biased :)

Good stuff anyway, and set up up for the season opener next week. Good luck Billy, you haven't half got some shoes to fill, but we'll all get behind you, signings or no.
 
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TheDude

Guest
none league nigel not liking the film and book makes it just that little bit better
 
vikes

vikes

A. Trialist
lozzykinz said:
Loved it.

I hear the book is better.
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It's more controversial.

As for a film about his time with us, who else would want to see a film about his successes here? Barring us. :)
They all want scandal and crap.
Gazza will be next, if he isn't still sitting on the riverbank talking to 'Moaty'.
 
incapable hulk

incapable hulk

Best served cold
The makers of the film did say when it was released- that if it was successful enough they'd make a sequel about his time at forest.

Must not have been as successful as they were hoping.
 
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Loughborough_red

Jack Armstrong
I heard a rumour, albeit a weak one perhaps, that they were going to make "Provided you don't kiss me" into a film.

I think that would be worth seeing.
 
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ForestRCohenUp

First Team Squad
Sadly if they made a film about Clough at Forest it wouldn't be about European Cups it would be about Swillsborough and the professional mourners and then his very sad drunken decline. Thasts just the way film makers are.
 
Flaggers

Flaggers

May not be the best moderator on LTLF, but he's...
LTLF Minion
Re The Damned United - I have it on good authority (from my source at Sony pictures) that the Clough family were offered input at all stages of the film's production progress - from storyboarding to edit, but declined.

It seems they read the book and hated it (and you can understand why) and presumably presumed the film would be the same.

Pity in some ways. Still, was a bloody good film!
 
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TheDude

Guest
its common knowledge the Clough family didn't like the book so no surprise
 
incapable hulk

incapable hulk

Best served cold
During the prmotional stuff just prior to release, the film makers were in the media saying they asked the clough family to participate- but they refused due to the book it was based on.

They did watch the film though, and said it was alot better than the book...but then barbara said it got peter taylor all wrong:D
 
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sebs

Jack Burkitt
the film isn't better than the book. the book is f***ing brilliant, the film only really shares a name. don't really care if the clough family don't like it, it's fiction, not non-fiction. and david peace is one of my favourite fiction writers out there.

i understand why the family don't like it by the way. but i love the clough character in it.
 
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winnits

Guest
The book made him too one-dimensional, and whilst I don't doubt picked up on some realistic facets of Clough's persona, it stripped him of warmth and humour. It was an interesting idea by Peace, but I think clumsily delivered and betrayed the authors bias too much. A worthy attempt though.

The film was different - it tried to compensate too much the other way. Both worth spending a bit of time over, neither ultimately satisfying.
 
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Samuel

Guest
Its worth watching for the brilliant performance by Michael Sheen.
 
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sebs

Jack Burkitt
Winnits said:
The book made him too one-dimensional, and whilst I don't doubt picked up on some realistic facets of Clough's persona, it stripped him of warmth and humour. It was an interesting idea by Peace, but I think clumsily delivered and betrayed the authors bias too much. A worthy attempt though.

The film was different - it tried to compensate too much the other way. Both worth spending a bit of time over, neither ultimately satisfying.
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david peace doesn't really do books with characters who have warmth and humour. in fact having read 6 books of his and halfway through a 7th i don't think i could mention one character with any humour. the red riding books are the bleakest books with the most horrible characters that you could ever possibly read. i confess haven't read damned utd recently, but with peace books it's usually about the atmosphere, conflict and dealing with demons, which it is packed with.

it's not meant to be biographical (and i'm sure you know this), it picks up a scenario and imagines how it could have been. the mistake people make is believing it to be non-fiction, whilst "provided you don't kiss me" actually is non-fiction. i don't think peace actually has prejudices (after all he's a huddersfield town fan) i just think he wanted to write a story about a character he was fascinated with and i'm sure i've read an interview where he said damned utd was light relief compared to 1974/1977/1980/1983 which are DARK.
 
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winnits

Guest
Yeah, I've read the Red Riding books. Again, they were interesting in parts - they took some ploughing through though. I'm aware he's a fiction writer, but to write fiction based on reality should take that reality into consideration - so to simply exclude any elements of warmth because the author 'doesn't do that' doesn't really wash with me.

I guess he's just not to my taste. Admittedly it would've been difficult to inject humour/warmth into the Yorkshire Ripper murders...
 
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sebs

Jack Burkitt
you read all of them before you decided that?? you have more patience with books than me.

so to simply exclude any elements of warmth because the author 'doesn't do that' doesn't really wash with me.
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i don't think it was a conscious decision. i know the character is called 'brian clough' but it isn't brian clough. i don't really know how to explain it, but peace will have picked and chosen the facets of the character to fit the story he's trying to tell - that's because it's fiction. he does the same with gb84 but he covers up the characters with pseudonyms (just as, to some extent, he does this with the ripper books, but they aren't as based in fact), i don't know why he decided it was ok not to do this with footballers
 
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winnits

Guest
I don't like to write something off without exploring them (aside from a lot of reality TV admittedly :D )... I don't think you need to explain it, I understand the difference between fiction and non-fiction ;)

I respect Peace's attempt, as I said, I just found it a tad over-simplified. Of course, my own bias around the subject matter of BC makes me a tougher audience than most I suppose. I think it's a worthy piece of fiction, it's interesting but in my view not delivered as outstandingly as some reviewers think.
 
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sebs

Jack Burkitt
i think perhaps the point is that peace's stories are based in themes rather than characters. the red riding books are very religious and deal with a lot of corruption and trust and belief. damned utd deals with demons, envy, rivalry and vengeance. i think it's a mistake to read damned utd as a story about brian clough. i don't neccessarily think all the character traits given to clough in damned utd are particularly negative, or at least i didn't see it as being particularly negative when i read it, i just enjoyed the story - in fact to the extent that i was surprised when i heard the family didn't like it as silly as that sounds (i'm too young really, i only saw one match with clough in charge)

i know you understand the difference between fiction and non-fiction, but it's crucial to emphasise it - i think peace is very grounded in literary theory so the characters are embodiments rather than living and breathing representations of actual humans.

ok stop me before i talk out my arse any further.
 
Ravi

Ravi

Upper Decker
The book was better than the film.
 
Barbus

Barbus

Steve Chettle
I don't blame the Clough family for not liking the book, I didn't either. If it hadn't been given to me as a present, I would never have read it at all, as it was it took me something like 18 months before I picked it up for the first time.

I found wading through it a real chore. It wouldn't have been nearly so bad had it been entirely fictional, but I never got over the way he mixed truth and fiction into one.

If Peace wanted to write a fictional novel about a fictional football manager he could have done that - I'm sure it would have sold far fewer copies though!

So in a blatant attempt to cash in on Clough's name and noteriety he wraps his story around real events and real people and it never really works for me as in parts it is hard to tell what is true and what is made up.
 
Barbus

Barbus

Steve Chettle
sebs said:
it's all made up. it's fiction.
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But it isn't though is it? It takes real people and real things that happened to them and real things they did, then made up a load of other stuff and mixed the two together.
 
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