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Billy's negative attitude ?

S

sedgred

Banned
I wonder at the moment how the players are feeling ? Billy Davies has whinged loud and long about wanting new signings, to gain promotion.

The obvious implication to the current playing staff, I don't think you are very good and want to ship you out at the first oppotunity. Massive affect on the players confidence especially the younger one's.

Billy Davies has blown his own trumpet for Billy Davies that much, got his excuses in at the expense of the current playing staff, for any problems this season, is it any wonder the team are struggling to play with any thing like a confident settled attitude ?

Yes it seems short term BD is a fine man motivator...............but how good is his motivation when all we hear are negative comments towards an attempt at promotion this season.

You are at work and you hear a consistant drone telling you, although you are alright, you're not good enough............how long will you continue to perform at your best ?
 
'thing is we DO need new faces. Yes BD is a moaning whinger at times but we have a tiny squad that he is wringing the best out of (see McGoogle and Chambers this season for example) We, Fans and Manager alike have been promised stellar signings, but then left looking like a Joke-in-'ere clowns when we expect "Sexy Signings" to arrive. Even Marthur seems to have taken this pratfall!
Hard to blame Billy for his lack of motivational impact today while he is at home brandishing his sicknote?

Of Course, absolutely no blame can fall at the door of our Glorious Chairman...
 
The thing that makes me laugh, is that when we lose people either go nuts at doughty, or start whingeing about billy davies comments from months ago as if either actually have any kind of f***ing bearing on anything.

You know what it might be, and heres a novel idea I know- maybe the players just were'nt good enough on the day or arent good enough full stop. They are grown men, who should be able to motivate themselves- thats no kind of excuse sedge.
Why does it always have to be some other external factor as to why they play badly? Why cant we just for once say- you know what they didnt play well, its thier own fault. Why does it have to be doughty not backing the manager, or the managers comments, or colin, or kinnear, or megson, grant bovey and his video tapes, or some other random bullshit.

They arent school children, stop treating them like such and making excuses. They should learn from this, man up and prove they are better than embarrissing themselves away at frickin barnsley.

Its embarrassing, us forest fans are always looking for some drama as an excuse as to why the players have a bad day, or just are rubbish.
 
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Sorry did not make it clear, I was thinking about being eleven games into the season rather than today's defeat in an isolated manner. Sometimes Forest will fail to shine, other times the opposition has a great game, that is the nature of football, we all know that.

Eleven games in, is the season unravelling before us ?
 
well my expectations have dropped quite a bit since that night back in may, atm id be happy with a mid table finnish, loose the next 2 home games or even draw them and we could get dragged into the bottom half at just the wrong time
 
Sorry sedge, i overreacted.

Im just getting a bit narked hearing about doughty,pleat,arthur or billy sabotaging the club or something.
Its like the players are able to rvade criticism.

I just think our starting xi and squad isnt good enough for this seasons championiship promotion race. For me,sadly i do just think thats all it is.
You dont go and get stuffed at barnsley because 4 months ago your manager said he didnt the squad currently was strong enough for promotion.
 
If my job depended on the results of this squad, I would bitch about 2 straight windows with no additions too.
 
Billy has a history of this sort of thing though; he always has, that's just him.

I'm sure most supporters agree we need to add a couple of players for reasons of squad depth (what we would do if, for example, injuries sidelined Bertrand, Cohen and say Gunter at the same time, I don't know).

Many say we over achieved last season, maybe we did, maybe we were lucky, but the league table didn't lie; we were third in a very competitive league behind two big-spending, parachute-payment clubs. And we deserved to be there.

This season, so far, we've played some good stuff, indeed yesterday on another day we could have won it.

But football is a results business, and if we don't get results, then everyone faces criticism; players, manager, and yes, the board.

Sometimes, bringing in a new face gives the whole club a lift, and that to be honest is what Forest need at the moment, something to give us that kick to push us on.

This seasons championship is going to be tighter than last year, and a team that can string a few goods results together at the right time will find success.

We aren't out of the race after 11 games, but we do need to start winning some matches quickly; but hey, we could be here this time next week looking at having picked up six points!
 
As I have said before ND has a "Plan" - whether it is the one we would like to hear, or one that we would not, we don't know? That stays behind closed boardroom doors.
At one level I can accept that as the club's owner (and a businessman with other assets) he can and does have the right to keep his strategies to himself. HOWEVER when you are dealing with a business asset as emotionally charged as a football club he also has a duty to show leadership and be upfront with the other important stakeholders - The Fans.
I still think the major factor in his future plans is "England 2018" and this is why the club is "treading water" and "keeping a tight lip".
We don't know what the real relationship is currently between ND & BD, nor do we know if promises made to Billy at his appointment have been reneged on.
Billy is ambitious and that can only be a good thing. He clearly overachieved last season and that has put him in a difficult position now, if ND will only declare his "war chest" and "Plans" once a decision on 2018 has been given.
 
sedgred said:
Eleven games in, is the season unravelling before us ?
Click to expand...

Nah, we're doing alright considering. A little more luck (or more players) and we'd be way up from where we are. Looking at the mess below us, I'm fairly content at this stage. As some players have indicated, press and forum speculation is what unsettles players, not what Davies cagily parrots in interviews (which, he's already admitted, isn't what he says to the players).
 
Le Juif Rouge said:
Billy is ambitious and that can only be a good thing. He clearly overachieved last season and that has put him in a difficult position now, if ND will only declare his "war chest" and "Plans" once a decision on 2018 has been given.
Click to expand...

This is the thing.

I think, if England is lucky and wins the 2018 bid (remember the announcement is December 2nd) that things could then very quickly fall in to place.

With his "businessman" head on, the Chairman will find it significantly easier to attract more investment to the club on the basis of the rewards of a new stadium and being a World Cup venue, hopefully then this will put an end to uncertainty and allow the club to kick on!
 
I worry that come January we won't be in a favourable position to attract the personnel to a) mount a challenge, or b) stop the quality we do have from starting to look elsewhere. If this happens I won't solely blame Billy's demotive comments but they will have certainly played their part in it all.

I see the next few months being critical not only to this season but the future Nottingham Forest.
Am I being a little dramatic?
 
But BD isn't the only manager talking about bringing in new faces to improve his squad. Nearly very manager does that.

Players are no different from the rest of us, we all think, 'it'll not happen to me'. Players think that we'll bring better players into the team that they play for and will make it better, someone else will be left on the bench or transfer listed.

Wilson doesn't think wes and chambers are better CBs than him, McGoogle doesn't think McKenna or Magic are better than him, dele doesn't think earnie or dex are better than him. Smith .............. and so on.

Every player in our squad thinks they are good enough to start for us. If they dont think that they can f*** right off.
 
sedgred said:
Eleven games in, is the season unravelling before us ?
Click to expand...
It could be argued that the season had unravelled when the transfer window shut.

Which has been more debilitating - Billy's moaning and comments, or the failure to strengthen from a substantial position of strength in January (for valid reasons), or the failure to strengthen in areas we could all see were weak in the summer (again, for valid reasons)?

Billy's comments may have had an effect - possibly even to remove pressure from the team - but not as much as the club not strengthening the quality of the squad in the last 2 transfer windows - there are valid reasons for this - but you can't deny it's had an effect.

We are no longer a suprise package and have been found out.
 
MSG said:
But BD isn't the only manager talking about bringing in new faces to improve his squad. Nearly very manager does that.

Players are no different from the rest of us, we all think, 'it'll not happen to me'. Players think that we'll bring better players into the team that they play for and will make it better, someone else will be left on the bench or transfer listed.

Wilson doesn't think wes and chambers are better CBs than him, McGoogle doesn't think McKenna or Magic are better than him, dele doesn't think earnie or dex are better than him. Smith .............. and so on.

Every player in our squad thinks they are good enough to start for us. If they dont think that they can f*** right off.
Click to expand...

Whether he does or whether he doesn't, they are. And that's the problem, our squad isn't strong enough and the strength in depth isn't there to cope with the demands of a long, hard championship season.

The following are basically wastes of space in the squad imho: Smith, Lynch, Thornhill (?), Adebola, Tyson (and you might include Garner, and possibly Bennett in that given they have been loaned out deemed not good enough esp in Garner's case) which means our pool of actual players capable of playing to the sort of level required in the first team is even smaller, at 18. This is therefore only enough for a matchday squad and so with injuries/suspensions/loss of form you can see exactly why BD has been crying out for additions. We had the smallest squad in the division last season, and they massively overachieved, so it's unsurprising that without new arrivals and the playoff hangover, things are panning out as they are so far this campaign (especially when all other teams have strengthened substantially).
 
Le Juif Rouge said:
As I have said before ND has a "Plan" - whether it is the one we would like to hear, or one that we would not, we don't know? That stays behind closed boardroom doors.
At one level I can accept that as the club's owner (and a businessman with other assets) he can and does have the right to keep his strategies to himself. HOWEVER when you are dealing with a business asset as emotionally charged as a football club he also has a duty to show leadership and be upfront with the other important stakeholders - The Fans.
I still think the major factor in his future plans is "England 2018" and this is why the club is "treading water" and "keeping a tight lip".
We don't know what the real relationship is currently between ND & BD, nor do we know if promises made to Billy at his appointment have been reneged on.
Billy is ambitious and that can only be a good thing. He clearly overachieved last season and that has put him in a difficult position now, if ND will only declare his "war chest" and "Plans" once a decision on 2018 has been given.
Click to expand...

That I think may well be a valid point. I have never considered the treading water scenario..........thinks mmmmmmm
 
sedgred said:
I wonder at the moment how the players are feeling ? Billy Davies has whinged loud and long about wanting new signings, to gain promotion.

The obvious implication to the current playing staff, I don't think you are very good and want to ship you out at the first oppotunity. Massive affect on the players confidence especially the younger one's.

Billy Davies has blown his own trumpet for Billy Davies that much, got his excuses in at the expense of the current playing staff, for any problems this season, is it any wonder the team are struggling to play with any thing like a confident settled attitude ?

Yes it seems short term BD is a fine man motivator...............but how good is his motivation when all we hear are negative comments towards an attempt at promotion this season.

You are at work and you hear a consistant drone telling you, although you are alright, you're not good enough............how long will you continue to perform at your best ?
Click to expand...

How do you know there is a consistent drone when the players are at work telling them they are not good enough? Or that they are even aware of what he says to the media?

I don't think it makes any difference at all what he says in the media; at the end of the day what he says on the training ground and dressing room is what counts.
 
Dare I say it, but I'm a little tired of Billy right now.

Bored of his complaining,
Bored of him not getting results with a decent (at this level) squad,
Bored of him not being able to get on with the board/TAP,
Just bored of the general direction-less plight our club again finds itself in.

From last year to this it's like normal business is resumed after a one-year achieving blip.

The deeper problem for me is that if we got rid of BD at any point we will either have
a) another 'yes man' and endless spin, bullshit and failure.
b) another 'BD type' who can not get on with the board and the same shit will happen all over again with more spin, bullshit and failure.

It's such a shame but I really don't know where it will all end, and my only thought right now (which solves most of the problems) is a new owner which as we have all extensively discussed is easier said than done.
 
Collymore! said:
Dare I say it, but I'm a little tired of Billy right now.

Bored of him not getting results with a decent (at this level) squad
Click to expand...

This is my biggest complaint at the moment. Yes I would have liked us to invest in January and yes I would have liked us to invest in the summer. The fact we didn't means that our chances of repeating last season's achievements were much reduced. However, despite no reinforcements I expected much better from the squad we still have. I expected this squad to win more than 2 games from 11 and to keep more than 1 clean sheet in 11. That is down to Billy getting the best from the players at his disposal and, despite doing it last season, he is nowhere near doing it this season.

I believe that the lack of signings is blinding some people to the under-performance of the current squad.
 
andover red said:
I believe that the lack of signings is blinding some people to the under-performance of the current squad.
Click to expand...
Turn that on it's head - What if Billy is right and last season the current squad over-performed?

Just a thought.
 
Over 46 games you finish where you deserve, and I don't buy this 'we over-achieved' spin. Of course Billy is going to say that, doesn't mean it's true. At the moment we have several members of the squad underperforming - Cohen has been woeful, McKenna well below his best, Morgan reverting to pub player mode, Wilson godknowswhat, Raddy obviously out of favour, Earnie injured, Goldie returning from injury. Only McGugan and Gunter, maybe Ryan have been good. No wonder we aren't up in the top six at the moment. The thing is we only look a winger short of a good team, indivdual form notwithstanding.
 
Ravi

We're not saying we didn't 'deserve' to finish third over 46 games; we did, in what was our best season in years. But to ask for a repeat of that this season, or to go one better was always going to be a tough ask, without any new arrivals, because we had players playing to their absolute maximum almost all the time. Now, we weren't a 'Newcastle' who EXPECTED with their squad of players and size of club to be up there, so anything less than that for them would have been 'underachieving'. That's why we suggest with our resources (smallest squad in the division, albeit with SOME players of the calibre of a top of the table side) that we 'overachieved' (i.e: we didn't EXPECT to achieve what we achieved). Therefore without building on that this summer to help a squad that over-achieved anyway go one better, has seen things pan out as they have so far.
 
Overall I think we should be satisfied with the start, solid if unspectacular. Considering we have the same squad as last season which overperfomed and is lacking strength and depth it was inenvitable that we would find ourseleves not matching last seasons success.
 
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