Billy Davies: Massive U-Turn

[birkin youth]

BILLY Davies believes Nottingham Forest can force their way into the promotion race

He is convinced the Reds can challenge for a place in the Premiership if they are still close to the top ten in February


Isn't this a total u-turn on what he had been saying before?


Wasn't he saying things along the lines of "we're not ready for promotion yet" .... "don't get your hopes up"

And after the Cardiff match he said "they are where we want to get to" (i.e being a top Championship team, not a Premiership team")

 

[Beasty]

Well he either now knows he has the full transfer backing he wanted or has been hilariously misquoted. Or even something else!

 

[king_congo_red]

One thing I think we've all realised...Billy is a master of psychology. Whenever he says anything, it's very rarely for our benefit, it's all designed for the benefit of the players - if he thinks they're getting carried away and need grounding, then "We're not ready for pomotion" - If he thinks we need a confidence boost, then "We can get promoted".

 

[removed user]

One thing I think we've all realised...Billy is a master of psychology. Whenever he says anything, it#s very rarely for our benefit, it's all designed for the benefit of the players - if he thinks they're getting carried away and need grounding, then "We're not ready for pomotion" - If he thinks we need a confidence boost, then "We can get promoted".

I'm with you Congo

 

[garrilla]

Well he either now knows he has the full transfer backing he wanted or has been hilariously misquoted.

I hope its the former, but I suspect its the latter. He has sadi a few times that promotion race is largely determined what happens in Dec/Jan. So he simply stating what has been said before, if Forest come through this period it will set them up nicely for the business end.

 

[king_congo_red]

I'm with you Congo

You are? Have you informed Mrs_C? :blink:

 

[earthworm]

He also says

"We do have a very difficult December and a very difficult January," he said.

"If this club is going to achieve anything, it will happen in February, March and April.

http://www.thisisnottinghamforest.c...ys-Davies/article-1531311-detail/article.html

 

[birkin youth]

Yeah, I don't doubt that's the case.

Just seems a bit weird, and quite transparent, when such a direct change happens over the space of about 2 weeks.

 

[earthworm]

Also in today's NEP, this seems like he's still saying the same things ...

IT is a lesson Darren Ferguson has learned the hard way, with the price of failure being his job at Peterborough United.

But he is not the first. Nor will be the last.

Billy Davies has been through it at Derby County and, in the near future, the likes of Birmingham's Alex McLeish and Mick McCarthy at Wolves may start to become nervous that they could soon fall victim themselves.

They have all discovered that there is a very big difference between being good enough to win promotion – and strong enough to survive at the next level.

It is, in fact, a vast chasm.

Over the summer, reports suggest Ferguson was offered the chance to invest in more experienced players to bolster his squad.

But he chose to keep faith in the men who had guided Posh to consecutive promotions.

In Davies' case, it was not something he was too naive to appreciate, as he hounded the Derby board to spend big in the summer, after steering them into the top flight via the play-offs in 2006/07.

But it was still he who paid the price, when their subsequent struggle for survival appeared doomed to failure.

Only those Forest fans who have been hidden under a rock for the past few months will fail to be aware of Davies' opinion on such matters.

His insistence that the club is not yet equipped to challenge among the Premiership elite has been voiced repeatedly and without an iota of doubt.

But, when it comes to the very different question of whether Forest are good enough to challenge for promotion, Davies' blunt sense of reality does begin to waver. If only a little.

Forest, he admits, are developing into a good side.

But one of the best in the Championship?

Davies is not ready to admit that – at least not yet.

"There is a difference between being good enough to win promotion and being good enough to succeed when you get there, I will give you that," he said.

"When you look at things, there is a calmness, a level of experience and a cleverness about Newcastle. They have an arrogance with the way they go about things.

"We have not got that at the moment, we still have naivety and inexperience.

"Our squad is still not big enough and we do not have that calmness.

"For me, when it comes to Newcastle, Middlesbrough and teams like that, we are still an awful long way away from these people.

"Even Sheffield United, goodness knows what size of squad they have, goodness knows what they have spent.

"They have 15 players out at the minute and they can still put a good team out.

"We are missing two or three players at the minute, as well as the long-term injuries in Julian Bennett and James Perch, and we are down to a 17-man squad.

"In that group of 17, we have players who are still learning their trade.

"The squad is still lacking the calmness, the craft, the astuteness and the experience to go and cope in certain places at certain times.

"What worries me is that we are thin on the ground. This club cannot afford to play without the likes of Dexter Blackstock, who was flying, Nathan Tyson, who was playing very well and Robert Earnshaw, who will bring you goals left, right and centre."

There are, of course other clubs with far worse injury problems than Forest.

But Davies feels that only emphasises his point when it comes to his current squad's ability to sustain a season-long challenge for promotion.

"I won't change my mind on that, because I look at Newcastle United, Sheffield United and Derby County – they have 15 or 16 players missing and are still fielding a strong side," he said.

"We are not in that position.

"They can still field 18 players on a match day.

"If we pick up another two or three, we could end up with a 14-man squad.

"It is the key players who are missing that concern me.

"If we get one or two more injuries, it can have a negative affect.

"All we need is for Paul McKenna, Lee Camp, David McGoldrick or Dele Adebola to pick up an injury – then you are missing crucial players.

"Hopefully, we can stay injury-free. Hopefully, we can get the four or five currently-injured boys back very quickly.

"In the meantime, I will sit down and look at things between now and the January window and hopefully we can land some very good signings."

Meanwhile, Davies does at least concede that the Championship is a division in which many teams could flourish this season.

A quick glance at the League table shows that even 12th placed Watford are only three points behind third-placed Cardiff and, in theory, therefore still very much involved in the promotion race.

"The Championship has been the same over the last few years. It is not a weak division, that is for sure," said Davies.

"What we have seen more recently is that there are a number of big clubs throwing big money at trying to get to the Premiership.

"Look at the squad sizes – look at the Sheffield United v Newcastle game recently.

"The squad sizes were massive, they have spent large amounts of money and had plenty of players missing – but were still able to name a strong team.

"Similar can be said about teams like Cardiff.

"Everyone is spending money to chase success. The competition is very fierce at this moment in time.

"We have been together for two minutes. It was a massive achievement to avoid relegation, then we brought in a lot of players in the summer time and we have had a little time to work with them.

"But we have had to face clubs who have enjoyed stability over a number of years and who have thrown big money at assembling big squads.

"That is why we are delighted now – but there is still work ahead."

When it comes to such opinions, Davies has reached the stage where he feels the need to apologise for repeating himself.

But that, perhaps, is only because he does not want to see history repeat itself for him if, by some chance, he does manage to guide Forest into the promised land.

 

[JoeBaker]

For me his comments are aimed at the January Transfer window, he is as good as saying give me some serious cash and we just might be there or thereabouts. Classic Billy

 

[removed user]

this means we won't go up. Nothing ever goes the way we hope it will.

You are? Have you informed Mrs_C? :blink:

not that way man! I'm actually your trousers, I have a keyboard under your desk and use the hem to press the keys and type on here. I thought you would have noticed before now! That's why I don't post in the summer when you wear shorts, he can't reach far enough down to reach the keyboard.

 

[Dadford]

Billy may be talking up our players for the transfer window.

 

[zigga-zagga]

What confuses me is that recently, when he was telling all and sundry that we were not ready, he stated that the infrastucture of the club was not up to Premiership standard.

Every player we have signed has said that we have a Premiership set up and that the Club looks after the players really well - so what do you reckon he means when he says the infrastucture of the club isn't up to it.

He can't be referring simply to the system of buying players surely.

 

[Dadford]

What confuses me is that recently, when he was telling all and sundry that we were not ready, he stated that the infrastucture of the club was not up to Premiership standard.

Every player we have signed has said that we have a Premiership set up and that the Club looks after the players really well - so what do you reckon he means when he says the infrastucture of the club isn't up to it.

He can't be referring simply to the system of buying players surely.

I think it's the fans forums

 

[kezz]

The thing for me here, is that I trust him. If managers in the past have either contradicted themselves or sounded like they were just rambling, I'd have made my worries known..

Though with our Bill, I trust him to do the right thing..
Maybe its to soon for me to place such trust as afterall he hasnt achieved anything yet, though we defiantly recgonise the progress he is making.

 

[south coast red]

The thing for me here, is that I trust him. If managers in the past have either contradicted themselves or sounded like they were just rambling, I'd have made my worries known..

Though with our Bill, I trust him to do the right thing..
Maybe its to soon for me to place such trust as afterall he hasnt achieved anything yet, though we defiantly recgonise the progress he is making.

i do agree with most of that but I would say keeping us up from what most people were saying was an impossible postion last year was acheiving something

 

[adam09]

It's not really a u-turn is it? He's just saying we could gain promotion (which of course is possible), which I don't think he denied before, he just said we're not ready, which is still true.

 

[birkin youth]

Maybe its to soon for me to place such trust as afterall he hasnt achieved anything yet

Keeping us up last season was an achievement. Kept us up by 7 points as well, which is actually quite a decent margin.

 

[Ravi]

Billy's banging on about the same stuff he always bangs on about - I need more players, look at so-and-so they have lots of players and are light years ahead of this club blah blah, at Derby/Preston etc I had hundreds of players whereas here we only have 6 players in the whole squad, so I need more players, blah blah all the loan players arent good enough to play in the first team ie I need more players, blah blah just in case I'm not getting the message across, I NEED MORE PLAYERS!

 

[Alex C]

Billy could be at Ibrox by then...

 

[goatboy]

Billy's banging on about the same stuff he always bangs on about - I need more players, look at so-and-so they have lots of players and are light years ahead of this club blah blah, at Derby/Preston etc I had hundreds of players whereas here we only have 6 players in the whole squad, so I need more players, blah blah all the loan players arent good enough to play in the first team ie I need more players, blah blah just in case I'm not getting the message across, I NEED MORE PLAYERS!

Because he's still being asked all the same questions. Debate the quality of our journalists before you debate the quality of our manager. We've a gifted manager with his head screwed on, canny and bold. The pig's ear he inherited is looking more like a silk purse all the time, I simply hope this will not be forgotten when we inevitably lose a few games. Forest fans being Forest Fans, we'll surely have a good number who expect not to lose very often at all now, god help us if we get to the top two and stay there for any length of time, we'll be inundated with posts saying how shit everything is if we fail to go up.

Billy has promised us mid-table, more or less, and we must be satisfied if he makes good on that promise. We won't, though, we'll piss and moan all summer.


/edit: Reasons to be cheerful, from the BBC site...


Nottingham Forest

• Forest are the only club in the top four divisions still holding an unbeaten away league record this season.

• They have used 19 players in their Championship matches this season - fewer than any other club.*

• Wes Morgan is in line for his 300th club career appearance and Lewis McGugan his 100th for Forest.





* which is Billy's point exactly. Luckily for us they're a good 19 players, well managed and playing towards their best abilities, even though no-one could be said to be on top form, really. Many are doing well but there's no-one who couldn't do better.

 

[Ravi]

Because he's still being asked all the same questions. Debate the quality of our journalists before you debate the quality of our manager. We've a gifted manager with his head screwed on, canny and bold. The pig's ear he inherited is looking more like a silk purse all the time, I simply hope this will not be forgotten when we inevitably lose a few games. Forest fans being Forest Fans, we'll surely have a good number who expect not to lose very often at all now, god help us if we get to the top two and stay there for any length of time, we'll be inundated with posts saying how shit everything is if we fail to go up.

Billy has promised us mid-table, more or less, and we must be satisfied if he makes good on that promise. We won't, though, we'll piss and moan all summer.


/edit: Reasons to be cheerful, from the BBC site...


Nottingham Forest

• Forest are the only club in the top four divisions still holding an unbeaten away league record this season.

• They have used 19 players in their Championship matches this season - fewer than any other club.*

• Wes Morgan is in line for his 300th club career appearance and Lewis McGugan his 100th for Forest.





* which is Billy's point exactly. Luckily for us they're a good 19 players, well managed and playing towards their best abilities, even though no-one could be said to be on top form, really. Many are doing well but there's no-one who couldn't do better.

I am delighted that Billy is our manager, and I agree that he is doing a very good job. His 'dog-with-a-bone' approach to press interviews does make me chuckle though

 

[mouldy]

This is probably a tactic for more money in january.

He has been saying we aren't ready so he comes out with this and the board will think we need to give him more money.

The feburary timing is all too ironic.

 

[adam09]

Not in the slightest. The board/acquisition panel will have been looking at players for all possibilites regardless of how much money they give BD in January, and regardless of what he says. They will have plans and be planning for the future (hopefully a Premiership one!) already whether we get promoted or not. Either way, we need strengthening, they don't need Billy Davies to tell them that.