A niggling worry....

[forest_girl]

This has been playing on my mind for some time - I feel I need some closure!

We told Dierby fans that Commons was a fat, lazy Judas. We acknowledged that he was a naturally talented player, who could turn a game in seconds, however we warned them that his laziness made him a liability most of the time.

We weren't trying to wind them up. We weren't jealous. We were being honest. They didn't believe us. And now we have been proved right.

Dierby fans are now telling us that Billy is a difficult manager. They acknowledge that he knows this league and how to get out of it. However, they also say that when things aren't going his way, he throws his toys out of the pram and leave the club high and dry, in debt and desperately short on confidence.

They genuinely hate him over there. And it does give me some cause for concern - what if this is Commons in reverse?

Just to clarify, I love Billy and I love what is happening at the club at the moment. But I can't help but worry about the message that is coming from the sheep-botherers.

At some point, things are going to go badly for Billy - it's the nature of football. Has he learnt his lesson sufficiently from his time at Dierby to react differently this time?

There, I've said it. Please don't hate me

 

[winnits]

I'm not worried about it.

He was a difficult manager because he was working for a shower of bastards.

 

[sebs]

i think at some stage we have to understand that what is good for billy davies is good for nottingham forest.

 

[Kier]

This has been playing on my mind for some time - I feel I need some closure!

We told Dierby fans that Commons was a fat, lazy Judas. We acknowledged that he was a naturally talented player, who could turn a game in seconds, however we warned them that his laziness made him a liability most of the time.

We weren't trying to wind them up. We weren't jealous. We were being honest. They didn't believe us. And now we have been proved right.

Dierby fans are now telling us that Billy is a difficult manager. They acknowledge that he knows this league and how to get out of it. However, they also say that when things aren't going his way, he throws his toys out of the pram and leave the club high and dry, in debt and desperately short on confidence.

They genuinely hate him over there. And it does give me some cause for concern - what if this is Commons in reverse?

Just to clarify, I love Billy and I love what is happening at the club at the moment. But I can't help but worry about the message that is coming from the sheep-botherers.

At some point, things are going to go badly for Billy - it's the nature of football. Has he learnt his lesson sufficiently from his time at Dierby to react differently this time?

There, I've said it. Please don't hate me

Interesting point you raise. To be fair I do think Billy probably isn't the easiest person to work with and he is too outspoken (The transfer panel have delivered big time this season but he still finds fault). However having a demanding manager rather than a yes man like Calderwood will only benefit us. However Doughty is a good chairman to work for in terms of giving a manager time to build a side and providing ample funds so I cannot see any big falling out occuring like there was down the road.

Remember also things didn't always go well last season or indeed at the start of this season but I don't recall any toys being thrown out of the pram.

 

[Seargant Reddog]

The niggling thoughts i have had about 'our Billy ' from day one is this is a manager know what it takes to be one of the best sides in the country and that you cant do that without INVESTMENT!
This year he's been backed with INVESTEMENT and i do believe we will make the playoffs. funny thing with Davies i think his managment skills and pyschogical ones would have any side in 'this' league there or there abouts and that is a sign of a quality manager.

Billy in the premiership with cash aka ya Man Citys and Chelsea

a new Special One ?

 

[winnits]

The only reason Dirty fans thought these things was partly because the board scapegoated him (admittedly, he made poor signings upon getting promoted too - but then he did have to basically rebuild a side that really had no business getting promoted anyway).

And the other reason is they believed what he said in the press was what he really thought. He said himself at The Approach that you should basically ignore his media comments.

 

[T.B.T.]

This has been playing on my mind for some time - I feel I need some closure!

We told Dierby fans that Commons was a fat, lazy Judas. We acknowledged that he was a naturally talented player, who could turn a game in seconds, however we warned them that his laziness made him a liability most of the time.

We weren't trying to wind them up. We weren't jealous. We were being honest. They didn't believe us. And now we have been proved right.

Dierby fans are now telling us that Billy is a difficult manager. They acknowledge that he knows this league and how to get out of it. However, they also say that when things aren't going his way, he throws his toys out of the pram and leave the club high and dry, in debt and desperately short on confidence.

They genuinely hate him over there. And it does give me some cause for concern - what if this is Commons in reverse?

Just to clarify, I love Billy and I love what is happening at the club at the moment. But I can't help but worry about the message that is coming from the sheep-botherers.

At some point, things are going to go badly for Billy - it's the nature of football. Has he learnt his lesson sufficiently from his time at Dierby to react differently this time?

There, I've said it. Please don't hate me

Not really sure what 'closure' you're looking for.

I think you're comparing apples and pears here. Forget about Kris Commons. We know that Billy can be assertive and clear about what he wants in a professional manner and we also hear that he can be determined when it comes to dealing with the board and directors. This has worked in our favour so far and I see no reason to worry or judge on circumstances that are not comparable and things that may or may not happen at some point in the future. There's nothing to say that things will 'go badly for Billy'.

I think any hatred is born of envy rather than anything else so my advice would be to ignore any 'messages from the sheep botherers' and enjoy being a Forest fan.

 

[sedgred]

Until Clough arrived at Forest he had been a on a huge learning curve, from what was successful and where he had failed to bring the best out of himself and the situation he was in.

Clough's years at Forest, especially the early ones, was marked with various throwing dummy out of pram episodes, Forest had a strong Chairman who stood up to him and the results were spectacular.

History starting to repeat it's self, only time will tell, but you can bet your last pound Billy Davies will have learned from his and the clubs mistakes back down the A52.

 

[JtheNorwegianRed]

Didn't Brian use to grab a bag of money, and go buy a player without even talking to the chairman?

It's nothing to lose any sleep over! I'm sure our chairman knew what he was getting into when he appointed Billy for the job. And I'm also sure that he knows how to handle him.

Billy was a bit naive last January, talking about January signings, which didn't work out.
I'm sure he won't do the same mistake again, even though the media will be asking about in nonstop for a month now ...
It's strange that we are now 3rd in the league, we're playing great stuff, but if Billy said he was looking to buy 3 more players in January, and failed to do so, the fans would turn on someone. If not Billy, then Mark Arthur or the transfer panel. That's why he's not playing up expectations about promotion, since if that is expected, mid-table consolidation would be failure in the eyes of many supporters.

The media wants us to panic about every little detail that they think is going on behind closed doors at the club.
McGugan to Coventry (haha), Billy for the Scotland (QPR, Reading, Sheffield Wednesday) job. It's nothing.
They are professionals under contract, and if they want to go work elsewhere they either have to wait until their contract is ended, or they have to pay a significant amount of money to release them from contracts, and to provide ££ for worthy replacements!

We may have been a club who's been hurt by bad decision making the last 15 years, but things are changing!
Only way is up!
And I feel very confident that the current board and staff is capable of doing a great job!

 

[dellaroc]

Also, the bit about leaving clubs in debt isn't fair. Derby's overdraft wasn't his fault.

 

[Barbus]

They're bitter. Bitter that they've sunk and may be still sinking and we're obviously on the rise and we have now overtaken them. What makes it worse for them is that the architect of our revival is the manager they now wish hadn't been sacked.
But they can't bring themselves to be honest and admit it.
Their loss our gain.

 

[kreemie]

Until Clough arrived at Forest he had been a on a huge learning curve, from what was successful and where he had failed to bring the best out of himself and the situation he was in.

Clough's years at Forest, especially the early ones, was marked with various throwing dummy out of pram episodes, Forest had a strong Chairman who stood up to him and the results were spectacular.

History starting to repeat it's self, only time will tell, but you can bet your last pound Billy Davies will have learned from his and the clubs mistakes back down the A52.

I think that is one of the crucial things. Has he learned from his mistakes? Obviously I hope so, but it still wouldn't completely surprise me if when Billy eventually leaves this club it will be down to some kind of argument with the board. I'm not getting too concerned because I imagine Billy must be happy with 95% of what the board has done for him so far, the only moot point perhaps being the imposition of the acquisition panel. But at some point the honeymoon period with the board will probably end and it remains to be seen how Billy will react. My hope is that: a) this won't happen for a long time and we will already be an established premiership side by then; b) Neither Billy nor the board will throw their toys out of the pram if there ever is a major disagreement.

Like you say, Clough may have been a similar character and yet it never came to a full bust-up at Forest. He probably learned a few valuable lessons after his Derby/Leeds days. We've read a lot about Davies taking stock after his sacking by Derby, travelling around Europe to improve on his coaching techniques etc. This gives me some hope he is the type to learn from his mistakes.

 

[Ravi]

I think that is one of the crucial things. Has he learned from his mistakes? Obviously I hope so, but it still wouldn't completely surprise me if when Billy eventually leaves this club it will be down to some kind of argument with the board. I'm not getting too concerned because I imagine Billy must be happy with 95% of what the board has done for him so far, the only moot point perhaps being the imposition of the acquisition panel. But at some point the honeymoon period with the board will probably end and it remains to be seen how Billy will react. My hope is that: a) this won't happen for a long time and we will already be an established premiership side by then; b) Neither Billy nor the board will throw their toys out of the pram if there ever is a major disagreement.

Like you say, Clough may have been a similar character and yet it never came to a full bust-up at Forest. He probably learned a few valuable lessons after his Derby/Leeds days. We've read a lot about Davies taking stock after his sacking by Derby, travelling around Europe to improve on his coaching techniques etc. This gives me some hope he is the type to learn from his mistakes.

Excellent post. I agree entirely.

 

[red army]

hello new to the board and if there is spelling problems i'm sorry in advance because of dyslexic and beer.

I agree in some points made about billy and his signings in dierby but i feel he did not get full backing from the board. Although he did buy certain players for the prem. from his own choice. I believe the panel is a good thing as it gives support and is not a narrow minded decision. Although billy had made few mistakes i would still not like to see the re-movement of the panel because of the great work of last summer. billy has obviously proved himself as a great tactical manger and with financial backing required ( which to a small extent was given by dierby) he could make a great squad. i think the fans should stop worrying because its 2 early. stay positive yes, dont go over board with ambitions its 2 early cheers. red army ( welcome 2 any feed back and responses) yet again sorry for and spelling errors YOU REDS !

 

[marshal99]

To be fair , both Preston & Derby fans have said the same things. They acknowledged that Billy is a good manager but when things doesn't go for him , i.e the board denying what he wants , he tends to throw his toys out of his pram (and we did see a bit of that last season when we didn't bring in anyone in january ).

When the preston chairman deny him funds , he engineered his own way out via the media and went to derby , when the derby chairman deny him funds , he once again went to the media. He uses the media for his own sounding board . Hopefully , with a chairman that can suport him well , he won't have to resort to that again. He does need a bit of vetoing at times. At derby , he brought in all his own people and give them jobs including his own brother , John to coach , it's basically billy looking after his own extended family and giving one and all jobs. When derby sacked billy , they had to pay off his backroom staff (about 9 or so) to leave as well (which was rumored to be around the cost of 8 million in all so it's not surprising that they are skint).

 

[red army]

marshal you make some fair points but as you said he didn't really get the full financial backing from mainly deirby and also i believe preston didn't have the funds. I know its hard for the board to regain confidence in a manger after previous mangers i just hope they give him a fair shot. They have in the summer and a couple/few could be a big decision for promotion push. I think it is easy to be hypercritical of his management at previous clubs but why not have a shot hes done this much in a short amount of time cheers red army

 

[andyred]

Whilst they'd have you believe he killed all their premiership standard players, filled his car boot with all their cash and trophy's and drove down the A52 they are just jealous.

Simple fact is Derby sacked him. He didn't walk. He had no choice. If they hadn't done that he would probably still be there now and they would be either in the Premiership or challenging in this league.

 

[marshal99]

I do think that Billy's ambition is to make his mark in the premiership and looking for a suitable club to fulfill that ambition. Nothing to say that he can 't do it with forest but ultimately depends on ND & his panel since they are the ones who control the finances and budget for Billy.

 

[Erik]

I know several Derby supporters who don't feel that way about him, know he massively over acheived in getting them up and feel he wasn't supported in a way to help them make a fist of it.

They told me when he joined Forest he would make a massive difference.

Don't forget, many of the Derby posters on here are quite happy to sow the seeds of doubt because they are feeling very insecure themselves at the moment and can only see us getting stronger and pulling away from them - hence the constant little digs about Davies.

It depends on his ambition and the ambition of the board, but Billy Davies could go a long way to making a real name for himself here and he knows it.

 

[T.B.T.]

You also have to remember that a great manager will take the occasional risk. These risks may not always be fully supported by everyone and they may not always work out. Didn't Clough take more than a handful of risks himself, most of which were good ones but I'm sure there was a couple of errors of judgement in there somewhere.

One of the secrets and difference between a good manager and a great one is taking risks with inspired and intelligent knowledge of the game, the players and their potential, working with them and making them successful.

 

[marshal99]

You also have to remember that a great manager will take the occasional risk. These risks may not always be fully supported by everyone and they may not always work out. Didn't Clough take more than a handful of risks himself, most of which were good ones but I'm sure there was a couple of errors of judgement in there somewhere.

One of the secrets and difference between a good manager and a great one is taking risks with inspired and intelligent knowledge of the game, the players and their potential, working with them and making them successful.

Like when Billy spend 3 million on Claude Davies and he looked like monkey p*ss in the premiership ? :wink:

 

[kreemie]

It's probably fair to say Derby didn't back Billy in the same way Doughty has so far. My feeling is that Doughty is looking for an exit in the next 3-4 years but he's a shrewd man who knows his asset is worth a lot more in the Premiership. Most of us were taken by surprise in the Summer at the magnitude of spending.....perhaps I'm too cynical but maybe he has noticed the crescendo of activity amongst wealthy foreigners who want their own Premiership club? Certainly there seems to have been a change in attitude from the Chairman. The last time we were in this division there was a different feeling about the place - we were selling key players and Harty didn't quite get the same backing as Billy. We heard lots of stuff about Doughty prioritising his charitable causes over Forest. Now I fail to belive this sudden spending frenzy was the result of Doughty getting wealthier.....the credit crunch has been very very tough on private equity. My suspicion is that Doughty took a conscious decision to spend heavily for 3-4 seasons, a sustained investment in an undervalued asset. The end goal being to sell the club for a lofty sum in the Premiership.

Of course this is wild speculation and people closer to Doughty may have a more accurate picture of his intentions. But this is how it looks to me, and if I'm correct it can only be good news for the near-term. It's hard to see Billy falling out with anybody while there's substantial backing in place. But what happens if Doughty doesn't get the return on investment he was hoping for? He doesn't have a bottomless pot of money. All I'm saying is it's not impossible to see how future tensions might arise..... but for now we can probably just sit back and enjoy this exhillarating season!

 

[earthworm]

Of course this is wild speculation and people closer to Doughty may have a more accurate picture of his intentions. But this is how it looks to me, and if I'm correct it can only be good news for the near-term. It's hard to see Billy falling out with anybody while there's substantial backing in place. But what happens if Doughty doesn't get the return on investment he was hoping for? He doesn't have a bottomless pot of money. All I'm saying is it's not impossible to see how future tensions might arise..... but for now we can probably just sit back and enjoy this exhilarating season!

A more rosy picture is that he wants to get us in the Prem to do "A Blackburn", buy sensible, sell where needed, live on good gates and Sky money, have the odd cup run. We basically belong in the Prem, we're built for it, and we'd be more self sufficient and less of a drain on his wallet if we got there.

 

[puds1970]

They're bitter. Bitter that they've sunk and may be still sinking and we're obviously on the rise and we have now overtaken them. What makes it worse for them is that the architect of our revival is the manager they now wish hadn't been sacked.
But they can't bring themselves to be honest and admit it.
Their loss our gain.

Bang on Barbus you have it there in a nutshell.
Weve had to take their stick for a while now so IMO they should expect a return gesture from us and be gracious about it.

 

[the mask of zorro]

They also told us that Billy would get us results, but that we would be playing boring, hoofball football, and grinding out 1-0 wins.

That said, it wouldn't suprise me at any stage if he walked out, as I can imagine he is a very difficult person to work with, and very demanding.

But whenever he goes, I would imagine that we will be in a far stronger position than when he came.