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Thread: Warning signs..

      
  1. #1

    Default Warning signs..

    First post, but after reading many comments on Saturdays match have to give my two pennies worth...

    I know it has been mentioned by others, but am deeply concerned about what I saw Sat. After the 2nd goal went I spent alot of time watching the body laguage of the players and particular Davies (sadly in preference to watching us get outplayed).

    The worrying thing is that even though we have a inexperienced (but talented) squad, I always felt this could be overcome against more experienced sides and our fight and togetherness would keep us. However this appears to have been sucked out by BD critisicism and 'divide and conquer' strategy. Players body language was bad, heads went down and they started to look like a team who thought they were are as C*** as the great motivator BD claims. Even worse, BD was routed to his dugout for the last 20 mins saying nothing, while Nigel was still egging on his players even with a comfortable lead. Hardly a great leader of men in my eyes.

    For the record, although personally I was dissapointed that CC left and felt we were on the up, regardless of anyones personal views on CC the team seemed to play for him and were united.

    I hope i am wrong, but feel a horrible sense of de ja vu we have another Megson on our hands who destoys any unity due to his 'small man syndrome' mouthing off. It can be no coincidence that no club touched him for over a year out of the game, and the only people that seem to have anything decent to say about him are players with a reason for making the peace (i.e. Earnshaw and Camp).

    Even in todays Sun he can't keep his mouth shut, openly critiscising Pleat, saying we were outlcassed (fair enough we were but don't broadcast it publicy!). Got a feeling its not going to be a happy ending, and I am unfortunately starting to hope some of the rumours about BD walking are true...







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  3. #2

    Default Re: Warning signs..

    I think that's a really well written, constructive first post. Can't disagree with too much that you've said there.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    I agree with some things, but Megson and Davies have been quite succesful everywhere but at Forest, haven't they?

    You've got to wonder why managers and players do well at other clubs, but not at Forest.


  5. #4
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Great Post wish I could write what I mean like that


  6. #5

    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by wesizleftpeg
    I agree with some things, but Megson and Davies have been quite succesful everywhere but at Forest, haven't they?

    You've got to wonder why managers and players do well at other clubs, but not at Forest.
    This is true, although I guess Bolton fans want Megson out despite a decent league position, and both Megson and Davies have had big fallouts with previous club hierachy's etc. Certainly can't make a huge argument against Davies' record.


  7. #6

    Default Re: Warning signs..

    I am not a big B D fan but i have no problem what so ever about him speaking out against the players and as for D Pleat and our transfer policy the more he speaks out the better i say


  8. #7
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Excellent post

    I agree with your comments entirely. The manner of the defeat was a real cause for concern. The players seemed lacking in confidence and there was no drive or passion. This is very reminiscent of the Megson era and for me the alarm bells are ringing.

    Some postings on here stating that Forest played well Are you blind?? That was dross-end of!


  9. #8
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by Piotr
    This is true, although I guess Bolton fans want Megson out despite a decent league position, and both Megson and Davies have had big fallouts with previous club hierachy's etc. Certainly can't make a huge argument against Davies' record.
    I have a feeling board members, management types and players are cushty in their well paid roles and don't like having their feathers ruffled occasionally.


  10. #9
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    forest is an unleaded footballing side and when you fuel it with diesel hoofball, it doesnt work, it never has and never will.

    this is why megson, kinnear, davies doesnt work.......


  11. #10

    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by VanHooijdonks Son
    forest is an unleaded footballing side and when you fuel it with diesel hoofball, it doesnt work, it never has and never will.

    this is why megson, kinnear, davies doesnt work.......
    Apart from one season under Paul Hart,I don't remember a season where we played a style of football that resembled champagne quality,some people really are deluded.

    Davies has a lot to do to win myself and many others over it seems, I'm backing him over his swipe at Pleat however.


  12. #11

    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Who's Warning and how much did he cost? It's good to see we're making some effort now


  13. #12

    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Just a quick word on Mr Pleat ,surely the money the club are paying him each year would be better spent on players the manager actually wants to buy? Does anyone know how Mr Pleat is on


  14. #13
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by VanHooijdonks Son
    forest is an unleaded footballing side and when you fuel it with diesel hoofball, it doesnt work, it never has and never will.

    this is why megson, kinnear, davies doesnt work.......
    Which is perhaps why Forest, as a club, if we want success, needs to change their attitude and style. We're too intent on this, nicey nice, passing football, lovey dovey with the players stuff.


  15. #14
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    I totally agree with BD having a go at Pleat and the role he alledgedly plays. For 60k a year there has not been a lot of evidence of his involvement or success. I have heard him commentate on various levels of game and he has prattled on about players etc but never have I seen a signing acknowledged as his introduction etc.

    I have an issue with BD's current style as I fail to see that it will serve a purpose in the time which is crucial ie now. The point about a small and inexperienced squad needed to be made but not repeatedly and he has crossed a line by singling out individuals and by denegrating the others as kids even Garner who cost us a lot of money and had looked very promising.

    Like it or not, this is what he has to work with now, infusing belief and confidence is most important but he is preferring to almost mock them and give out that he expects them to fail. At one point he used the close knit unity of the squad as a positive but now he is trying to break that by favouring others and even calling players like Chris Cohen inexperienced when he has played something like 100 league games.

    I think he should back off and get this group back together. He is playing a game by trying to force the hands of certain people to loosen the purse strings. Fair enough, point made now get back to what you acknowledged you knew you would be doing ie working with and developing young inexperienced players.


  16. #15
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken
    Even in todays Sun he can't keep his mouth shut, openly critiscising Pleat, saying we were outlcassed (fair enough we were but don't broadcast it publicy!)
    Great 1st post and this bit is the main thing that has annoyed me (probably a bit stronger than this after Sat actually) about Davies.

    Stop airing our dirty laundry in public! It clearly isn't working and you haven't been here long enough to earn the respect to get away with it!

    Fair enough, criticise players in the dressing room (if you feel it's the right approach), but don't keep doing it publically! If you did it once and we went out and battered someone 5-0, then fair enough, your approach has been justified. However, the last few games (not even results-wise for me, cos Feb was always gonna be tough, but performance/attitude-wise) have been bad.

    Another post-match comment that got me really worried was him saying "February AND MARCH" were always gonna be tough. Even if you think that might be the case, there's no requirement for you to say it to the world!

    Instead of the players going into games believing we can win, they're gonna start thinking "you know what, you might be right gaffer." I have got a massive issue with this mentality. We have a young, impressionable squad who it appears (based on recent peformances) take what you saying literally and guess what, the results haven't been good. Team's are gonna be going into games, knowing we're not up for it and don't fancy our chances. How is this a good thing?

    If you're willing to wright-off the following games as well, then we may as well start planning our trips to Hartlepool again:

    Preston (Home)
    Swansea (Home)
    Watford (Away)
    Burnley (Away)
    Wolves (Home)

    We still need 5 or so wins Billy and IMO, we need at least 3 from that lot (maybe 2 if a couple of draws are thrown in). Otherwise we're gonna be looking at a situation where we need 4 wins out of 5 at the end of the season, which by default we'd be going into in poor form.


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by wesizleftpeg
    I agree with some things, but Megson and Davies have been quite succesful everywhere but at Forest, haven't they?

    You've got to wonder why managers and players do well at other clubs, but not at Forest.
    Davies has had success everywhere, as he says his record is second to none , Megson has had a torrid time in management and only had success at WBA and now at Bolton.


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by VanHooijdonks Son
    forest is an unleaded footballing side and when you fuel it with diesel hoofball, it doesnt work, it never has and never will.

    this is why megson, kinnear, davies doesnt work.......
    Football players are football players.

    If we suddenly imported Boltons players into the Garibaldi with their 'hoofball' would they somehow fail?

    Its down to the majority of players not being good enough.


  19. #18

    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by clusternakker
    Football players are football players.

    If we suddenly imported Boltons players into the Garibaldi with their 'hoofball' would they somehow fail?

    Its down to the majority of players not being good enough.
    Yes agree some are not up to the job and we need some new experienced faces. My concern is that in the short period of 6 weeks BD has managed to put a gloom around the club I have not felt since the GM days and for the first time this season I think we may be going down.

    His job is to work with what he has got/given. In the space of 6 weeks we have gone from a young fighting team on a downward curve....afraid to play and making mistakes, keeper a bag of nerves, own goals, defensive errors. Looks like he's lost the dressing room already since hardly a motivator when your boss won't take any resposablity and blames everyone but himself.

    To round it off he's p***** off alot of supporters and looks like many other people at the club. Good work Billy!


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by secko
    Just a quick word on Mr Pleat ,surely the money the club are paying him each year would be better spent on players the manager actually wants to buy? Does anyone know how Mr Pleat is on
    I read somewhere today but can't remember where that Pleat is on 60,000 a year which wouldn't buy too much.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    It'd buy a Garath McLeary for the left wing


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by wesizleftpeg
    It'd buy a Garath McLeary for the left wing
    That would by 3 GM's


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    And I would take 3 Garath McLeary's thankyouverymuch!

    He's set up our last 2 goals for Tyson and Earnie with crosses from either flank, with his left and right foot. I love to see a player with a turn of pace and two good feet.

    So why the hell he doesn't he start!


  24. #23
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Good Post.


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    He does need to rally the group together and quickly....I havent liked all the criticism (true as it may be) - these players are our players who have given us an awful lot over this season and last, and then for billy to just come in and start slagging them off after 5 minutes - to me is not on. He may not be used to working with young, inexperienced players but taking too hard a line with them, and criticising them publicly, is the wrong way to go about it IMO and unlikely to do much for their confidence....i think most are probably the sort that would benefit from an arm round, which is probably what calderwood gave them. What failed colin was his lack of knowledge of the championship, but at least he knew how to work with young players, and developed them into a united, spirited young group over nearly 3 seasons. Obviously Colin ultimately was really too soft, but we have gone from chalk to cheese from Calderwood to Davies...what was needed I think was some middle ground. Whether that was available at the time, well is debatable, but if we go down, I think a big fat finger should be pointed at the board for another poor appointment.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Warning signs..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken
    First post, but after reading many comments on Saturdays match have to give my two pennies worth...

    I know it has been mentioned by others, but am deeply concerned about what I saw Sat. After the 2nd goal went I spent alot of time watching the body laguage of the players and particular Davies (sadly in preference to watching us get outplayed).

    The worrying thing is that even though we have a inexperienced (but talented) squad, I always felt this could be overcome against more experienced sides and our fight and togetherness would keep us. However this appears to have been sucked out by BD critisicism and 'divide and conquer' strategy. Players body language was bad, heads went down and they started to look like a team who thought they were are as C*** as the great motivator BD claims. Even worse, BD was routed to his dugout for the last 20 mins saying nothing, while Nigel was still egging on his players even with a comfortable lead. Hardly a great leader of men in my eyes.

    For the record, although personally I was dissapointed that CC left and felt we were on the up, regardless of anyones personal views on CC the team seemed to play for him and were united.

    I hope i am wrong, but feel a horrible sense of de ja vu we have another Megson on our hands who destoys any unity due to his 'small man syndrome' mouthing off. It can be no coincidence that no club touched him for over a year out of the game, and the only people that seem to have anything decent to say about him are players with a reason for making the peace (i.e. Earnshaw and Camp).

    Even in todays Sun he can't keep his mouth shut, openly critiscising Pleat, saying we were outlcassed (fair enough we were but don't broadcast it publicy!). Got a feeling its not going to be a happy ending, and I am unfortunately starting to hope some of the rumours about BD walking are true...
    Good post but it is superb to see a manager being given eff all support by the chuckle brothers using the press for his end - saying it like it is.

    How can his tune change when he isn't being allowed to do his job. He has a set of players which everyone knows is not enough or good enough and is not allowed to bring anyone else in.

    How can it possibly be his fault - long may he use the press to attack the buffoons in charge


 

 

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