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View Poll Results: Have NFFC done the right thing?

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Thread: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

      
  1. #176
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Footballers don't need to be paid the amount they currently are.

    Prize money and TV revenues doesn't need to be as high as it currently is.

    Season and match day tickets don't need to be so expensive.

    TV football subscriptions don't need to be so high.

    Everything in football needs reining in significantly, and I couldn't give 2 shits if it damages the top leagues in any way shape or form. The players and agents who don't like it can fook of and play in China for all I care.

    It's time to derail the gravy train.

    Last edited by Frank Clarks Tash; 10-04-20 at 01:06.

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  3. #177
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    I totally agree with your comments, it’s about time the Footballing community realise this ridiculous money making vehicle called football cannot carry on in its present form.
    I hope this makes a difference to these overpaid Prima-donnas who think they can keep fleecing the watching fans whilst they live this ridiculous lavish lifestyle at the expense of the hard working fans.
    Football stand up and get your house In order because the game needs a change because it cannot carry on in its current format forever and there as never been a better time to sort it out


  4. #178
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by MansfieldRed View Post
    I'm sorry, but all this talk of morality kind of annoys me a little as I find it hard to blame Marinakis or Forest on this and is to me is just another sign of the house of cards English football has been built on since the inception of the Premier League. With each passing season more and more money has been thrown at English football and more and more of it got pumped into the Premier Leagu while the rest of the EFL got handed essentially a pittance to share between the rest of the 72 clubs.

    The first sign that English fooball was in a precarious position was when football clubs were being relegated out of the Premier League and incurring massive debts due to the huge gulf between the inflated wages that were being paid and the revenue they were now receiving outside of the Premier League. That there should have been an indication that something huge was wrong and a massive overhaul was needed, but instead of that they just threw money at the relegated teams to try to keep them solvent. This caused a massive imbalance and meant it more likely that relegated teams would go straight back up meaning teams had to take massive financial risks in a vain struggle to compete leading pretty much all teams to incure massive losses just for that rare opportunity to compete in the Premier League.

    Then the millionaires and billionaires jumped in seeing an opportuniy to pump in, what to them is probably a small amount of money, and make bank by getting and staying in the Premier League. This meant even more money going to insane wages and inflated prices in a league that really couldn't sustain it and more losses were incurred. Again, instead of trying to resolve the issue being caused by the ludicrous jump in revenue of hitting the Premier League and distributing it more evenly the hasitly threw in FFP in a hope to make clubs balance the books, a decision that only increased the imbalance in the Championship.

    Now the coronavirus has hit and it's the straw that broke the camels back. It has shown how unsustainable the model is as the main source of revenue that the EFL relies on is just gone. The PFA hasn't exactly done anything to help insisting that players should refuse all deals for any cuts to wages because it would punch a hole into the U.K. taxes, which to me sounds like it could be an excuse hiding a more selfish motive. Let's not forget that the PFA is essentially a union and if they are indeed acting in a way to prevent players agreeing to wage cuts then the only option for a lot of clubs at this moment is to do something that most of us find distasteful.

    We've all known that football in this country has been unsustainable and ultimately things have got to change. We have one of the richest and most expansive pyramid structures in Europe, but the life blood is being squeezed out of it and that it was only a matter of time that something would come along and collapse the house of cards that pyramid now is. This is why I find it so hard to blame Forest or any othe EFL club that does this. The bosses of football need to seriously rethink how the structure works, but I have this horrible feeling that when we finally get past this awful period that they won't learn the lessons and just go right back to how it was before.

    Essentially, I can't help think it's more a multitude of horrible decisions that have led us to this situation as opposed to it just being a lack of morality by the clubs.
    1:- We need to get rid of stupid transfer windows that cause inflationary transfer fees, wages and line the pockets of agents that put nothing back into the game.
    2:- Stop parachute payments to relegated clubs so that clubs have to build possible relegation into financial planning.
    3:- Look into the the possibility of club wage caps, but protect the players by having a minimum wage for each division.
    4:- Limit the number of players that a club can send out on loan to stop hording of talent for financial gain.


  5. #179
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by GreeksBearingGifts View Post
    As far as the players' wages are concerned: don't think for a minute that Forest (and practically every other club) will not try to cut them down. But most clubs wait until FIFA decides how to enforce the cutback, which it will do in the near future: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52188913
    FIFA has issued some sort of regulations for the cutbacks: https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/zy...pp6pshcrtg.pdf

    When a club and the players cannot reach an agreement, unilateral cutbacks are still permissible if they follow national law, and may be permissible even regardless of national law, pending recognition by a FIFA panel.

    It is only now that the real negotiations for a cutback of players' wages may begin worldwide.


  6. #180
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by GreeksBearingGifts View Post
    FIFA has issued some sort of regulations for the cutbacks: https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/zy...pp6pshcrtg.pdf

    When a club and the players cannot reach an agreement, unilateral cutbacks are still permissible if they follow national law, and may be permissible even regardless of national law, pending recognition by a FIFA panel.

    It is only now that the real negotiations for a cutback of players' wages may begin worldwide.
    And a unilateral wage cut imposed by the Clubs would like as not result in players going on strike, certainly in England.
    They are all members of the PFA (the footballers' Union), and the PFA has already voted to oppose pay sacrifice.


  7. #181
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by brian1783 View Post
    1:- We need to get rid of stupid transfer windows that cause inflationary transfer fees, wages and line the pockets of agents that put nothing back into the game.
    2:- Stop parachute payments to relegated clubs so that clubs have to build possible relegation into financial planning.
    3:- Look into the the possibility of club wage caps, but protect the players by having a minimum wage for each division.
    4:- Limit the number of players that a club can send out on loan to stop hording of talent for financial gain.
    I totally agree, with the added proviso that all loans have to have a maximum of 3 months with a right to buy clause at a pre-loan agreed price.


  8. #182
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    And a unilateral wage cut imposed by the Clubs would like as not result in players going on strike, certainly in England.
    They are all members of the PFA (the footballers' Union), and the PFA has already voted to oppose pay sacrifice.
    They can go on strike if they want, but not only will they face public wrath, they will now have no help from FIFA, i.e. football's 'supreme government'.


  9. #183
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Let them strike. As this whole thing has shown, they're not as in demand as they, or their agents, think they are.


  10. #184

    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Footballers in England would protest these cuts by refusing to play in the indefinitely suspended Football League??




  11. #185
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Start from scratch. Local players for local teams. I’ll stick um in the onion bag for free.


  12. #186
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by adam09 View Post
    Start from scratch. Local players for local teams. I’ll stick um in the onion bag for free.
    I really wouldn't be against that at all. Yeah the quality may take a bit of adjusting too, but after watching Forest for so long it won't be that much of a drop.


  13. #187
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    I'd be interested to hear when most of you feel that football sold its soul to money.

    Considering we spent a million pounds on a player in the seventies, and Clough received £98k for forty-four days' work forty-six years ago in 1974, you could argue it was some time ago.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


  14. #188

    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    I'd be interested to hear when most of you feel that football sold its soul to money.

    Considering we spent a million pounds on a player in the seventies, and Clough received £98k for forty-four days' work forty-six years ago in 1974, you could argue it was some time ago.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    20th February 1992.


  15. #189
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes' Organ View Post
    20th February 1992.
    Why not before then? The monetisation of the game had been gathering pace for decades before 1992.

    The Premier League was the inevitable result.

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  16. #190

    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    Why not before then? The monetisation of the game had been gathering pace for decades before 1992.

    The Premier League was the inevitable result.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    It was essentially when clubs were unable to self sustain and challenge for promotion (prize money) to the premier league.
    As far as I'm aware we didn't have anyone propping us up when we bought Trevor Francis. (I could be wrong but I was still in short trousers in my defence).


  17. #191
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    I'd be interested to hear when most of you feel that football sold its soul to money.

    Considering we spent a million pounds on a player in the seventies, and Clough received £98k for forty-four days' work forty-six years ago in 1974, you could argue it was some time ago.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Trevor Francis was bought by money earned on the back of substantial success


  18. #192
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Yates View Post
    Trevor Francis was bought by money earned on the back of substantial success
    That was achieved by wheeling & dealing, a million miles away from today’s premier league nonsense which is based on subscription tv


  19. #193
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    Why not before then? The monetisation of the game had been gathering pace for decades before 1992.

    The Premier League was the inevitable result.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    There's a balance in everything in life, and I think everything was a lot more proportionate back then.

    Blackburn spiked Sutton's wages to 10k/wk back in the 90's, and that was around the happy medium IMO. Plenty of actors, rock stars, top CEO's earn that amount.

    MP's earned around 40k/year back in 94, so Sutton earned 13x as much as them. Whereas now they earn avg 80k/year, and Prem's top players get 18.2m/year. 227x what they earn.

    Top wage cap IMO should be 30k/wk. That's 1.56m/year, 15.6m over a 10 year career obv. Good enough to make you rich & set you up, not obscene enough that you're totally detached from the everyman,

    A club like ours should be paying it's top players 10k/wk, with players like Carvalho at his stage in his career on around 1k/wk. They can still have their mortgage paid before they're 30 even at lower levels, and that's more than a lot of people can say. Let's not forget, sponsorship, bonuses & suchlike will top them up too.


  20. #194

    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Forest went from being an average div two side to a side that could break British transfer record in two and half years.

    Never really understood the claim that Forest spending a million pound in 1979 when they were the best team in the country is proof that football competition has always been decided by money. The money didn't get Forest there, a coach did. A great manager building a good team virtally from scratch in div two put the club in a position to break the transfer record. That isn't possible now, so the Francis transfer is another of example of how football used to be better and less spoilt by the monopolising of the big few..

    It's really a good example of why football now is nothing like it was then.

    Last edited by Francis Benali (on loan); 10-04-20 at 20:38.

  21. #195
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    I'm not sure there's a need for any footballer to earn more than say £500k/year? If they think they could earn better money in another profession they're welcome to go for it.

    Any extra they can earn from sponsorship etc. if they're that good.


  22. #196
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    I'd be interested to hear when most of you feel that football sold its soul to money.

    Considering we spent a million pounds on a player in the seventies, and Clough received £98k for forty-four days' work forty-six years ago in 1974, you could argue it was some time ago.
    Forest bought Francis on the back of success, Liverpool bought on the back of success, Manchester United were a huge club and could bank on that.

    The precise moment when football changed is difficult to pinpoint but I would suggest the moment Jack Walker decided to bankroll Blackburn to the title was the beginning of the main change and the moment Roman Abramovich bought a total non entity of a club like Chelsea in order to launder money on the pretext of winning them the title was the beginning of the end.

    Bang average second division footballers earn more in 1 month than people who make significant contributions to society do in a year and that is considered 'normal',

    Football sold it's soul to TV and that's the point at which it changed.

    Seeing as you referenced Clough, he'll be sat wherever he is now, getting God to do whatever he wants him to do, looking down and saying 'told you so'.


  23. #197
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Forest bought Francis on the back of success, Liverpool bought on the back of success, Manchester United were a huge club and could bank on that.

    The precise moment when football changed is difficult to pinpoint but I would suggest the moment Jack Walker decided to bankroll Blackburn to the title was the beginning of the main change and the moment Roman Abramovich bought a total non entity of a club like Chelsea in order to launder money on the pretext of winning them the title was the beginning of the end.

    Bang average second division footballers earn more in 1 month than people who make significant contributions to society do in a year and that is considered 'normal',

    Football sold it's soul to TV and that's the point at which it changed.

    Seeing as you referenced Clough, he'll be sat wherever he is now, getting God to do whatever he wants him to do, looking down and saying 'told you so'.
    Clough said in 1979 that football on tv would reach saturation point & as usual he was right


  24. #198
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Forest dont make profits so furloughing staff is the absolute right thing to do. As for footballers they do get paid a lot but its because of fans. Football is not to blame for this they get the money from paying punters obviously football fans are dim enough to pay that. Maybe fans should form fan groups that stop paying for the product then it will soon change.


  25. #199
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    All great points, guys.

    It's an interesting discussion - a quick glance at clubs' expenditures shows exponential growth since at least the seventies, a trend which (up until this point, at least) shows no sign of slowing down as yet.

    You could argue that the process began in the sixties, a time where football became an increasingly marketable product: the expansion, introduction and development of international and european competitions, the increase in commercial air travel, TVs being made available for many more homes.

    It's not my argument at all that Forest didn't deserve to spend money on Francis; I was using it to demonstrate the growth in the financial demands in the game.

    What's the difference between Forest spending £1m on a player in 1979 and Man United spending £50m on a player in 2020 if both fees are the same percentage of their annual income?

    Wes made a fair point that 2nd division clubs can't self-sustain and make the jump up to challenge that kind of money, but then others have said that Forest earned that money through success (which is also a fair point). Isn't this contradictory? I'm sure Man United feel they earn their money fair and square, just as we did. As would all clubs who get into the Premier League and can subsequently spend the money that that success brings.

    I understand that the opportunity is more limited now as it involves debt and requires benefactors, but if the end result has always been success=money=access to buying the best players, then surely the end result of this is always going to be a pyramid, and today we are seeing the same thing, just with bigger numbers?

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

    Last edited by Project Zeus; 10-04-20 at 22:59.

  26. #200
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    Default Re: NFFC to furlough non-playing staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Clarks Tash View Post
    I'm not sure there's a need for any footballer to earn more than say £500k/year? If they think they could earn better money in another profession they're welcome to go for it.

    Any extra they can earn from sponsorship etc. if they're that good.
    You could say no human needs that amount of money.

    And I’ve just read the Spurs owner has a net worth of £8.4 billion, yet they are furloughing staff.


 

 

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