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Thread: Great comment style article in The Times today about Forest being hard done by by VAR

      
  1. #1
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    Default Great comment style article in The Times today about Forest being hard done by by VAR

    I hope the link works!





    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...a17974ea3d8e90

    If not - here is an excerpt of the relevant points:

    Take last week’s entertaining cup tie between Chelsea and Nottingham Forest, which the Londoners won 2-0. There seemed to me a grave injustice against the Championship side, which occurred in the 24th minute with the score already 1-0 to Chelsea.

    Forest broke and the ball was slipped through to their young striker Alex Mighten in the Chelsea penalty area. Mighten went down under a challenge from Fikayo Tomori and the referee, Peter Bankes, pointed to the spot. The matter was referred to VAR to ascertain that it had indeed been a foul. Having viewed the footage, however, the panel noticed that Mighten was marginally offside when the ball was played to him. The decision, then, was that the penalty be overturned and an indirect free kick awarded to Chelsea.

    Forest were short-changed in at least one of three ways. First, and most obviously, if the game had been played at their ground the penalty would have stood because VAR was available only to Premier League clubs playing at home, which seems unfair.

    Second, even if the referee, Mr Bankes, had spotted the hairline offside, he had not blown for it and his duty would have been to punish the more serious transgression, ie the foul on Mighten. Being in an offside position is not in itself an offence. The question then is did the foul occur at the time Mighten gathered the ball, or as he was about to do so, or had Tomori started his lunge before Mighten had properly collected the ball?

    The three things seemed to happen simultaneously and the rules are a little opaque. At the very worst for Forest, the supposed offside would have been awarded but Tomori either booked or sent off for his foul. Many referees would tell you that it is still, however, a penalty, because that is the more serious offence.

    Then there’s this. The VAR had been commissioned into activity to judge whether or not Tomori had fouled his man. Should the panel not then have stuck to that simple brief? Instead, they spotted an offside. How far back in time should VAR go? Two seconds? Five seconds? Twenty seconds? What if there had been an infringement farther back in time? Should VAR have adjudicated on that too? If this seems nitpicking, I apologise, but these sort of uncertainties, to my mind, render VAR a big problem for the game — which I believe is best played out in a real, objective time, despite what Bergson might contend.


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Great comment style article in The Times today about Forest being hard done by by

    Even after reviewing video evidence, it's still unclear what the rules of VAR are and what they are taking into account in their decision.

    It's too subjective and for that reason we should just allow the 3 men on the pitch to judge it for themselves in real time and keep the game flowing without all these disruptions.

    For where the ball is cleared off the goal-line and hard tackles it's great to have a look at to make the right decisions. For most other things like accidental handballs and offsides, it's quite a painful process.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: Great comment style article in The Times today about Forest being hard done by by

    I don’t think that is correct at all is it?

    Why would Tomori have been sent off? He didn’t come anywhere near committing a red card offence. It was such a minimal foul (if it even was one) I wouldn’t even give it a yellow card.

    I don’t think it could still be a penalty either because the ball has to be in play. The first offence is always given. Tomori could have two footed him and been sent off, it would still be a Chelsea free kick for offside.


  5. #4
    Billy Davies long lost lovechild.
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    Default Re: Great comment style article in The Times today about Forest being hard done by by

    Just rewind the game to the 90's please, where there was none of this bollocks & players could tackle too.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk


  6. #5
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    Default Re: Great comment style article in The Times today about Forest being hard done by by

    VAR is purely there for the capitalist profiteers who are running and ruining the game.
    The providers of match day live action via the telly to armchair couch potatoes see VAR as adding to the tension.
    The gaming houses see VAR as a way of proving that an event has or hasn't happened and thereby providing evidence to support them when they don't pay out on bets.
    There is nothing in VAR for the genuine supporter who goes to the match.
    In the end, why bother attending?
    You can't celebrate a goal for whatever time it takes VAR to rule it a goal or not.
    As for the poor old on-pitch officials, they are being overruled by someone in a warm office hundreds of miles away, with dozens of big screens and countless slow-mo action replays from every angle you can imagine.
    The ref and linos last vestiges of authority have been eliminated.
    "Players will not be allowed to petition the ref to check with VAR" was the mantra from bosses.
    What happens at every toss and turn?
    The players petition the refs...
    I don't know when or even if VAR will be consigned to the dustbin, but if it isn't then it will be the live game that is finished.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Great comment style article in The Times today about Forest being hard done by by

    Quote Originally Posted by adam09 View Post
    I don’t think that is correct at all is it?

    Why would Tomori have been sent off? He didn’t come anywhere near committing a red card offence. It was such a minimal foul (if it even was one) I wouldn’t even give it a yellow card.

    I don’t think it could still be a penalty either because the ball has to be in play. The first offence is always given. Tomori could have two footed him and been sent off, it would still be a Chelsea free kick for offside.
    The ball was in play as the ref had decided there was no previous offence.
    Therefore it was a penalty.
    As to a red or yellow - who cares?
    A foul was committed in the box that denied a goal scoring opportunity from developing.
    A foul in the box is either an indirect free kick, or a penalty.


  8. #7

    Default Re: Great comment style article in The Times today about Forest being hard done by by

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    The ball was in play as the ref had decided there was no previous offence.
    Therefore it was a penalty.
    As to a red or yellow - who cares?
    A foul was committed in the box that denied a goal scoring opportunity from developing.
    A foul in the box is either an indirect free kick, or a penalty.
    Didn't they bring in a double jeopardy rule so that a player can't be sent off when a penalty is awarded as it would be regarded as punishing the offending team twice, or was that just something they tried in a World Cup or something?


  9. #8
    May not be the best moderator on LTLF, but he's In The Top 1
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    Default Re: Great comment style article in The Times today about Forest being hard done by by

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Red Till Dead View Post
    Didn't they bring in a double jeopardy rule so that a player can't be sent off when a penalty is awarded as it would be regarded as punishing the offending team twice, or was that just something they tried in a World Cup or something?
    Only if the defender makes a legitimate attempt to get the ball. That's a yellow. Anything else is still a sending off and penalty/free kick

    By "relegation battle", do you mean 7th, 12th or 14th?

    Quote Originally Posted by willojack View Post
    flagman do me a f***ing favour remove me from this forum

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Great comment style article in The Times today about Forest being hard done by by

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Red Till Dead View Post
    Didn't they bring in a double jeopardy rule so that a player can't be sent off when a penalty is awarded as it would be regarded as punishing the offending team twice, or was that just something they tried in a World Cup or something?
    I believe that this rule still applies.


 

 

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