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  1. #1
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    Default Labour Leadership race

    "Keir Starmer has opened up a solid lead over his rivals in the race to succeed Jeremy Corbyn, according to the first poll of Labour members seen by Sky News."

    A solid choice but he has two problems to solve.

    1. Ridding the party of the SWP loons.
    2. The Intersectional brigade who don't want yet another White straight male leader.

    I agree with Malcom Rifkind that every Government needs a strong Opposition party.


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Surprised.

    Thought RLB would be miles out ahead due to the grip that Momentum has on the party.

    Good news if true, means some people are coming to their senses and putting pragmatism and power above purity and wilderness.

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    I have always been surprised that Labour didn't bring Frances O'Grady into Westminster via a safe seat. I might not agree with her position on many issues but she comes over as very sincere, credible, capable and eloquent.


  5. #4
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Juif Rouge View Post
    I have always been surprised that Labour didn't bring Frances O'Grady into Westminster via a safe seat. I might not agree with her position on many issues but she comes over as very sincere, credible, capable and eloquent.
    Do Labour have any 'safe' seats any more?


  6. #5
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by congo_red View Post
    Do Labour have any 'safe' seats any more?
    Get Diane Abbott or Corbyn to resign.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Juif Rouge View Post
    Get Diane Abbott or Corbyn to resign.
    Abbott would probably manage to get that wrong too


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  8. #7
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    By far the best candidate, in my eyes.

    Sensible centre left candidate, with the experience as one of the country's top lawyers to offer effective opposition while Labour rebuilds. He has none of Corbyn's baggage, and while a bit dry his public speaking is generally good.

    I think he would have the broadest appeal across the nation, as well. A lot of centrists would find him a lot more palatable than Corbyn or Long-Bailey, and he would do well in high pressure interviews and PMQs. He has that all-important gravitas that wins elections, too, which I don't see much of in the other candidates.

    Not sure he'd be able to win a majority in 2024; the Conservatives' majority is probably too big to overturn in one cycle, but he'd give Labour their best chance.

    Gerrim in!

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  9. #8
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    By far the best candidate, in my eyes.

    Sensible centre left candidate, with the experience as one of the country's top lawyers to offer effective opposition while Labour rebuilds. He has none of Corbyn's baggage, and while a bit dry his public speaking is generally good.

    I think he would have the broadest appeal across the nation, as well. A lot of centrists would find him a lot more palatable than Corbyn or Long-Bailey, and he would do well in high pressure interviews and PMQs. He has that all-important gravitas that wins elections, too, which I don't see much of in the other candidates.

    Not sure he'd be able to win a majority in 2024; the Conservatives' majority is probably too big to overturn in one cycle, but he'd give Labour their best chance.

    Gerrim in!

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    I had a fiver on him at 6-1 the other week. I notice he’s down to less than 2-1 now. I agree what you say too by the way. I think the fact he didn’t shit on Corbyn either may mean he may be the broad church leader they go on about.


  10. #9
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    There is no doubt Zeus that Starmer as an individual has the potential to succeed, but he needs a team around him that will support him, and not a gang of bitter Corbynistas looking to undermine him.

    Most of those who would have supported him have exited the party and even if they rejoin they are not MPs. What does he actually do with Abbott, Corbyn, McDonnell, RLB, Thornberry, Burgon, Gardiner et al?

    How does he get rid of Milne and Murphy? How does he marginalise McCluskey and Lansman?

    Starmer is good but he is no canny Wilson or persuasive Blair.


  11. #10
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Juif Rouge View Post
    There is no doubt Zeus that Starmer as an individual has the potential to succeed, but he needs a team around him that will support him, and not a gang of bitter Corbynistas looking to undermine him.

    Most of those who would have supported him have exited the party and even if they rejoin they are not MPs. What does he actually do with Abbott, Corbyn, McDonnell, RLB, Thornberry, Burgon, Gardiner et al?

    How does he get rid of Milne and Murphy? How does he marginalise McCluskey and Lansman?

    Starmer is good but he is no canny Wilson or persuasive Blair.
    I'd be very surprised indeed if Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are on the shadow cabinet once the new Labour leader is in place and has had a reshuffle. Ex party leaders very rarely stay on the front bench. They'll either go back to being backbenchers like Milliband or will retire.

    I believe Corbyn has said he'll stay on as an MP but I wouldn't be surprised to see McDonnell step down. This lot are yesterday's news, let's be honest. The younger ones like RLB and Burgon will likely stay on the shadow cabinet, but you'd expect Starmer to bring in some more centre leftists to balance things.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Milne is an official element of the party's apparatus? I was under the impression he's Corbyn's advisor? Like Cummings is for Johnson. I'd expect him to be gone along with Corbyn as the new leader brings their own team in.

    I'm not too sure about the others, but you'd expect most of the established senior staff to step down/be moved on. Labour have a long time in opposition to rebuild these positions. Now is the time to do it.



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  12. #11
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Itíll be that Long-Bailey bird once the unions have had their say.

    Theyíll win a few seats back in the next elections once Brexit is done, continue to delude themselves that anyone outside of the loony Momentum London bubble wants any of this hard-left shit in power, then get fucking trounced in the election after that.

    Maybe then they might finally realise that the UK will never vote a Marxist into 10 Downing Street.

    The only way Labour will get back in power will be when the Tories, starved of any effective opposition for years, self-implode in an orgy of drugs, sex and bung scandals, by which time everyone will have forgotten how shit Labour are and give them another go.


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  13. #12
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Starmer doesn't have tits, so he has no chance.

    Labour will go for a female leader next.


  14. #13
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Starmer is the obvious standout candidate. He has the demeanour of a leader, unlike LB.

    I’d imagine this will be a wake up call for the Corbynistas, who might now be more willing to unite round one left wing candidate. The last thing they would what is for Starmer to win.

    Stand Firm And Strike Hard

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    "Labour left-wingers sign petition pleading with Corbyn to refuse to stand down as leader."

    https://www.change.org/p/jeremy-corb...rbyn-as-leader


    Bojo asks all Tories to support this petition and sign it.


  16. #15
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    To get elected they need to appeal more to centre voters as well as the left. The hardcore lefties won't migrate to another party (unless that is Fartage's next desperate move)


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
    Labour quite simply need to do whatever it takes to get elected.

    Forget including ridiculous policies like free broadband for everyone in their manifesto and go popularist

    They can switch leader and change tack once they are in power
    I'm not sure I could support such a dishonest approach.


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
    Labour quite simply need to do whatever it takes to get elected.

    Forget including ridiculous policies like free broadband for everyone in their manifesto and go popularist

    They can switch leader and change tack once they are in power
    That is very much what Frederick Forsyth's novel The Fourth Protocol set around the 1987 General Election is all about.

    If your ideas are generally unpalatable to the voters then it is your ideas that are wrong not the public.


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Juif Rouge View Post
    That is very much what Frederick Forsyth's novel The Fourth Protocol set around the 1987 General Election is all about.

    If your ideas are generally unpalatable to the voters then it is your ideas that are wrong not the public.
    You keep spouting this but the Tories are masters of doing just that and *most* people despite election results tend to favour Labour type policies as you'll see in any indepdent vote-for-policy like surveys.

    Elections are complex things, people don't vote for a party based on just their policies. The average voter wants a party that will make decisions on their behalf without consultation, that will be aggressive against other nations when it comes to defence, they want a leader that is typically younger, deemed more "get-go'y" bla bla.

    Labour won the policy battle in 2017 but couldn't overcome the lack of trust both on domestic (still reeling from the GFC) and international (Corbyn a softie) matters. We got hammered last month because those factors were still in play but the policy aspect was more mixed with many people just sick of Brexit and putting getting that done on the same pedestal as progressive Labour policy. Johnson's u-turn to 'investing in the North' and thus parking his tanks on Labour territory also helped.

    Anyway, I'm rambling, but what I'm meaning to say is that many Labour policies are generally well regarded by the public. Our struggles this decade have been in leadership capability and trust.


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Maxi there is a big difference between telling normal election porkies and conspiring to pretend you are a Centre Left party when your intentions are to go Hard Left the moment you get into office.

    Labour did not "win the policy battle in 2017" - Labour have won nothing since Tony Blair. Keep on fooling yourself and you will keep on losing.

    Most UK voters are quietly conservative in nature and patriotic. Tony Blair understood that but no Labour leader since has.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Juif Rouge View Post
    Most UK voters are quietly conservative in nature and patriotic.
    Which, wouldn't necessarily be something I have a problem with, if it wasn't for the fact that so many Conservative politicians are absolute cuntpuffins.


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Juif Rouge View Post
    Labour did not "win the policy battle in 2017" - Labour have won nothing since Tony Blair. Keep on fooling yourself and you will keep on losing.
    Labour closed the gap on the Tories by almost 20% between the release of the manifesto and the election. Other factors had remained a constant for roughly two years before that. The only big change in that campaign was the clear message to the electorate the Labour would shift government policy from austerity to investment. 2017 policy was more concise, targeted to things people would vote for and crucially believable.

    Patriotism isn't owned by the right, but I agree Johnson (and May before him) were stronger in that regard than Corbyn. That's one of the reasons they both beat him but that's not a party policy concern that's a leadership personality thing. Like I said, elections aren't just won on policy. People are open to centre-left policy but it needs to be wrapped around patriotism, a strong leader, concern for the economy and business etc.

    Last edited by MaxiRobriguez; 03-01-20 at 13:26.

  23. #22
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Unless they come back to the centre ground they are knackered, need to banish corbyn and his cronies to the back benches, Nandy comes across well but the lunes from momentum wont approve. They'll go for another corbyn type and then blame the media when they get another kicking, clueless!


  24. #23
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Edited


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    Thought RLB would be miles out ahead due to the grip that Momentum has on the party.
    During a radio phone-in on this subject yesterday, I was surprised to hear a statistic claiming that Momentum supporters comprise as little as one-in-six of the overall party membership which, if true, suggests that a Corbynite like Long-Bailey might not have as clear a run at the leadership as many people seem to think. It could potentially open the door for a mainstream, centre-left candidate like Starmer.

    My own choice would be Dan Jarvis, a leader in the truest sense, and not just politically as the Mayor of Sheffield. Bucking the trend by retaining his seat in a solid leave area last month was also an achievement that shouldn't be underestimated.

    His centre-ground politics, coupled with his impeccable military service would make him untouchable to the attack-dogs in the right-wing Tory press, leaving Johnson unable to play his pathetic defender-of-the-nation, patriotic card. Nor does Jarvis fit the vulnerable "liberal, metropolitan elite" profile either.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Labour Leadership race

    Oh, and he's a Red.


 

 

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