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Thread: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

      

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  1. #1
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    Default Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run


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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Yeah good luck with that one.


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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    If labour get in power they will spend 5 years arguing if they hate Jews or not.

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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Good Lord, how progressive!

    If only there were a league whose rules mandate that no owner can hold more than 49% of the shares, and that supporters be compulsorily represented as members?

    Football Utopia!

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    — Joe Strummer

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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Vote for Jeremy!!

    Why?


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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by valspoodle View Post
    Vote for Jeremy!!

    Why?
    Well. To get Diane Abbott of course!

    By "relegation battle", do you mean 7th, 12th or 14th?

    Quote Originally Posted by willojack View Post
    flagman do me a f***ing favour remove me from this forum

  8. #7

    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Good Lord, how progressive!

    If only there were a league whose rules mandate that no owner can hold more than 49% of the shares, and that supporters be compulsorily represented as members?

    Football Utopia!
    Utopia for 8-in-a-row Bayern. Pretty shit for everyone else.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by Itsy-bitsy Bonatini Yellow Polkadot Bikini View Post
    Utopia for 8-in-a-row Bayern. Pretty shit for everyone else.
    Maybe not:




  10. #9
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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Good Lord, how progressive!

    If only there were a league whose rules mandate that no owner can hold more than 49% of the shares, and that supporters be compulsorily represented as members?

    Football Utopia!
    So Germany has broader fan ownership than in the UK? What impact has that had? Better responsiveness to fans, or more generally better run clubs?

    Do you think it has prevented owners otherwise intent on using the club purely as a financial investment?

    What level of say do they have? E.g. who makes decisions on hiring and firing the coach?


  11. #10
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    Default Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by CommonTree View Post
    So Germany has broader fan ownership than in the UK? What impact has that had? Better responsiveness to fans, or more generally better run clubs?

    Do you think it has prevented owners otherwise intent on using the club purely as a financial investment?

    What level of say do they have? E.g. who makes decisions on hiring and firing the coach?
    (For a more comprehensive answer, see my (many) posts on the subject in the „La Liga/Bundesliga/Ligue Un/Serie A and other World Football thread“ in „Football banter“, but):

    The German FA mandates the „50+1“ rule, which says that no one individual can own 50% (or more) of a Club. The clubs must have a membership scheme, and those members can own 50+1% of the clubs‘ shares (usually administered through a Stiftung or charitable foundation.

    That makes them unattractive for speculators (unlike their English counterparts) because an unpopular single owner can always be blocked by a club‘s membership.

    With a couple of historical exceptions (Bayer 04 Leverkusen and Wolfsburg, who were founded by the Bayer and Volkswagen companies respectively for their employees) all German clubs operate this way, with an open membership - anyone can sign up (with the exception of RB Leipzig, which is why everybody else hates them).

    Another oddity is Hoffenheim, who are owned by club members and Herr Dietmar Hopp (Herr Hopp founded and owns SAP, and he is from Hoffenheim, so he has bankrolled „his“ local club somewhat).

    The interaction with supporter groups is significantly better than in England, because the fans own the majority of the Club, and representatives sit on the clubs‘ board.

    Let’s for example take VfB Stuttgart, my local club. I am a Mitglieder (Club member) of VfB, so I (theoretically) own part of it.

    VfB has a Supervisory Board, composed of various local figures from business and sporting backgrounds, who are responsible for the daily running of the Club. Membership of this board is voted for in part by the clubs‘ members (there is an annual meeting for those purpose). This close relationship means that the Supervisory Board is very accountable to the supporters - indeed, over the summer, fan pressure forced out the (very unpopular) Chairman, Wolfgang Dietrich, who’d made a number of unpopular decisions, and had presided over the clubs‘ relegation to the 2. Bundesliga.

    The Supervisory Board appoints the Club Head Coach and the „Sporting“ roles (Sporting Director and Head of Recruitment, for example).

    Also unique to Germany is that each club has to present to the German FA it’s accounts and an audited business-plan, before the start of each season. If the sums don’t add up, then the German FA will not issue a license to allow the Club to play, and in some cases, will enforce relegation (most recently, 1860 München were relegated down to the fourth-Tier for financial irregularities).

    The upshot of this of course is that the clubs seem to be much more aligned to their supporters; that results in much higher levels of engagement with „their“ clubs, and this typically means better facilities, better atmospheres in grounds (the Bier might help there) and higher attendances.

    VfB have over 70.000 current members; as a member, as well as being able to vote for those running the Club (and other policy choices) you get a number of other benefits, like priority access to tickets, invitations to various events around the Club, and other freebies.

    You get a funky card like this:



    And they send you a personalised mini-kit:



    And there are often „member only“ social events too, where current and former players turn up. In 2017, when the Club was promoted to the Bundesliga, there was a massive piss-up on the famous Wasen showground, and last summer, an open-air Party was held to celebrate the clubs‘ 125th anniversary, featuring lots of former players, even Jürgen Klinsmann turned up, and was happily wandering round, posing for selfies.

    Last edited by Strummer; 08-10-19 at 14:27.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    (For a more comprehensive answer, see my (many) posts on the subject in the „La Liga/Bundesliga/Ligue Un/Serie A and other World Football thread“ in „Football banter“, but):

    The German FA mandates the „50+1“ rule, which says that no one individual can own 50% (or more) of a Club. The clubs must have a membership scheme, and those members can own 50+1% of the clubs‘ shares (usually administered through a Stiftung or charitable foundation.

    That makes them unattractive for speculators (unlike their English counterparts) because an unpopular single owner can always be blocked by a club‘s membership.

    With a couple of historical exceptions (Bayer 04 Leverkusen and Wolfsburg, who were founded by the Bayer and Volkswagen companies respectively for their employees) all German clubs operate this way, with an open membership - anyone can sign up (with the exception of RB Leipzig, which is why everybody else hates them).

    Another oddity is Hoffenheim, who are owned by club members and Herr Dietmar Hopp (Herr Hopp founded and owns SAP, and he is from Hoffenheim, so he has bankrolled „his“ local club somewhat).

    The interaction with supporter groups is significantly better than in England, because the fans own the majority of the Club, and representatives sit on the clubs‘ board.

    Let’s for example take VfB Stuttgart, my local club. I am a Mitglieder (Club member) of VfB, so I (theoretically) own part of it.

    VfB has a Supervisory Board, composed of various local figures from business and sporting backgrounds, who are responsible for the daily running of the Club. Membership of this board is voted for in part by the clubs‘ members (there is an annual meeting for those purpose). This close relationship means that the Supervisory Board is very accountable to the supporters - indeed, over the summer, fan pressure forced out the (very unpopular) Chairman, Wolfgang Dietrich, who’d made a number of unpopular decisions, and had presided over the clubs‘ relegation to the 2. Bundesliga.

    The Supervisory Board appoints the Club Head Coach and the „Sporting“ roles (Sporting Director and Head of Recruitment, for example).

    Also unique to Germany is that each club has to present to the German FA it’s accounts and an audited business-plan, before the start of each season. If the sums don’t add up, then the German FA will not issue a license to allow the Club to play, and in some cases, will enforce relegation (most recently, 1860 München were relegated down to the fourth-Tier for financial irregularities).

    The upshot of this of course is that the clubs seem to be much more aligned to their supporters; that results in much higher levels of engagement with „their“ clubs, and this typically means better facilities, better atmospheres in grounds (the Bier might help there) and higher attendances.

    VfB have over 70.000 current members; as a member, as well as being able to vote for those running the Club (and other policy choices) you get a number of other benefits, like priority access to tickets, invitations to various events around the Club, and other freebies.

    You get a funky card like this:



    And they send you a personalised mini-kit:



    And there are often „member only“ social events too, where current and former players turn up. In 2017, when the Club was promoted to the Bundesliga, there was a massive piss-up on the famous Wasen showground, and last summer, an open-air Party was held to celebrate the clubs‘ 125th anniversary, featuring lots of former players, even Jürgen Klinsmann turned up, and was happily wandering round, posing for selfies.
    How good is their coffee though?


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
    How good is their coffee though?
    VfB serve the local (ish) Hochland Kaffee:

    https://www.hochland-kaffee.de/

    And it is thoroughly excellent.


  14. #13
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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run




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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Just when you thought this terrorist sympathiser couldn't get anymore ridiculous.

    Corbyn: "hold my beer"

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  16. #15

    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Long shot, but I'm backing Bayern to overhaul that two point deficit over the final 27 matches.


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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Benali (on loan) View Post
    Long shot, but I'm backing Bayern to overhaul that two point deficit over the final 27 matches.
    That's crazy talk

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  18. #17
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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by eugenboppboppbopp View Post
    That's crazy talk



  19. #18
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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    The German FA have a rule regarding membership but three clubs don't comply.

    If three clubs can get away with bending the rules why don't others?


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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by valspoodle View Post
    The German FA have a rule regarding membership but three clubs don't comply.

    If three clubs can get away with bending the rules why don't others?
    The exceptions for Leverkusen and Wolfsburg are historic; but in both cases, there is legal separation between the parent company and the Club, where the Club (in both cases) has an independent governing board totally isolated from the owning company.

    The issue with RB Leipzig is a little more complex; the Red Bull Company bought up the assets of a lower-league Club and rebranded it, then set up a closed-membership system, which currently has 17 members, all of whom are either employees of Red Bull or a Red Bull subsidiary, which is entirely against the spirit of the Rule, and that’s why they are the subject of derision from opposing supporters, despite the Leipzig club‘s excellent reputation for player development.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    What they mean to say is that if they ever win an election ... yeah right lol


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Just trying to get votes from football fans. Clegg did it with the students when he promised to get rid of Uni fees, that ended well didn’t it.

    It would just get hijacked by gangsters anyway, too much money involved in football, it would be a nice loophole for them. Like in other countries were the mafia run certain clubs.


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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    Just trying to get votes from football fans. Clegg did it with the students when he promised to get rid of Uni fees, that ended well didn’t it.

    It would just get hijacked by gangsters anyway, too much money involved in football, it would be a nice loophole for them. Like in other countries were the mafia run certain clubs.
    The mafia don't own football clubs. There's not enough money in it.

    They can own players, fan groups etc... but the they know the quickest way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire who buys a football club.

    "Salvare il mondo è un lavoro del diavolo"

  24. #23
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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley View Post
    The mafia don't own football clubs. There's not enough money in it.

    They can own players, fan groups etc... but the they know the quickest way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire who buys a football club.
    I did say run them, they pull the strings without owning the clubs. Like Barry said, there’s been evidence of money laundering through clubs in Italy. God only knows what goes on at clubs in countries like Columbia.


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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post
    I did say run them, they pull the strings without owning the clubs. Like Barry said, there’s been evidence of money laundering through clubs in Italy. God only knows what goes on at clubs in countries like Columbia.
    Escobar defo had his finger I'm footie pies

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    Default Re: Labour to give fans bigger say on how clubs are run

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Escobar defo had his finger I'm footie pies

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    His family weren't too happy when that poor bastard Andres Esobar scored that own goal in the world cup. Probably thought it brought shame to the family name.

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