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Thread: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

      
  1. #1
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    Default Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Clubs with parachute payments are twice as likely to be promoted.


    ...an increase in the number of clubs with parachute payments and the overall value of these payments coincides with a reduction in competitive balance in the Championship. Furthermore, clubs with parachute payments are twice as likely to be promoted to the English Premier League and considerably less likely to suffer further relegation to the third tier (League 1).
    https://tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1...nalCode=rgsm20

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    You mentioned this before I think, but is it the case that only Wolves and Huddersfield have been the only non parachute clubs to gain promotion in recent years?

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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    It’s full on inequality driven by greed and completely goes against the ethos of ‘sport’

    Parachute payments were originally devised to support teams that were paying premier League wages once relegated. This gives no incentive to manage finances and an unfair advantage.
    What would have been more sporting would have been for the Premier League to cover the balance in wages for the remaining contracts of any players paid greater than a set figure (25k/week for example). And this to only for contracts in place at the end of the August transfer window prior to relegation.
    If the player leaves the club then payment stops
    If the player signs a new contract then payment stops
    This would level the playing field whilst compensating for relegation far fairer than parachute payments


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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyT View Post
    You mentioned this before I think, but is it the case that only Wolves and Huddersfield have been the only non parachute clubs to gain promotion in recent years?

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    Sheff Utd, Brighton...

    I have mentioned this before. Quite topical when we are facing Swansea at the weekend, a club who are in their second season of PP.


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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    And in addition, Player-contracts should be mandatorily written to include clauses relating to wage-reductions in the event of Relegation.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    — Joe Strummer

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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    And in addition, Player-contracts should be mandatorily written to include clauses relating to wage-reductions in the event of Relegation.
    This would just be sensible business practice and you would hope and suspect clubs already do this. However this means that the relegated clubs are now just massively benefiting from a system that was devised to simply assist with the initial implications of relegation.

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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    The Premier League is drowning in money and a few million given to relegated clubs is, I'm sure, neither here nor there to them. Consequently, with more important things to consider, they are content to just jog along with the status quo.


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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Premier League Foreign Owners have tried in the not-too-distant-past to end relegation from and promotion to the Premiership.
    The vote went against them (needed a 2/3rds majority), but as a sop to the foreign owners it was agreed to introduce parachute payments so that the movement between the Championship and the Premiership was restricted to the chosen few.
    Parachute payments cannot be supported by any pro-football arguments at all.
    They, like the loan system (another iniquity) ought to be banned if English professional football is to remain a competitive institution.
    If not then the protectionism they offer to those clubs benefiting will be responsible for the ultimate demise of the working man's game.
    And yes, I realise I am stuck in an arcadian past.
    But times were better then; the football was more exciting, and I was young with a rosey future ahead of me.


  10. #9
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    The 'Premier League 2' idea hasn't gone away. It is still on the agenda. In the meantime, parachute payments were introduced.


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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Firstly - yes, its crap.

    Secondly - if we were subject to it, would we complain then?

    Thirdly - money isn't everything and brings its own evils with it.
    It is still susceptible to a less wealthy opponent that 'has its shit together' with a manager / coach / squad that is fully focused, bonded together and committed to the cause. The money gap is a handy excuse for those who aren't.



    We've been waiting and yearning to be a club that has its shit together. When we are, everyone else will know about it too.


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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    The 'Premier League 2' idea hasn't gone away. It is still on the agenda. In the meantime, parachute payments were introduced.
    It's essentially a power play to create the same thing, albeit more slowly:

    Propose something unreasonable, but settle for something that slowly but surely creates similar conditions by stealth, pivot back to the original proprposal at some point in the future as by then you've pretty much achieved the original objective and what's the difference


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Clubs should just (voluntarily) sign players on contracts that have clauses with wage drops upon relegation.

    And that is from what I gather becoming the norm. I read for example that Fulham’s wage bill was set to go down to just £28m this year after relegation due to the clauses. That’s less than ours.

    So having become the norm for such clauses, the parachute payments are an explicit promotion advantage, hence Fulham being able to sign the likes of Cavaleiro, Lockhart etc as they have a massive sack of spare cash.

    I would most definitely object to it if Forest were benefitting from it, just like I would criticise a British athlete if he doped to win an Olympic gold. It’s against the ethos of sport.

    The parachute payments are part of the larger Faustian pact that allows the top 6 to become untouchable. That’s your compensation. You can’t sit at the head of the table but at least you can keep your place at the top table. It’s just a massive bag of shit.

    Society more broadly relies on people having the possibility to achieve what they want. You take that opportunity away in any walk of life and it goes to shit. I look forward to the (football) revolution.



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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    last 10 season, no parachute payments (the first guest, let's corrrect it)

    2009–10
    Newcastle United
    West Bromwich Albion
    Blackpool
    2010–11
    Queens Park Rangers
    Norwich City
    Swansea City
    2011–12
    Reading
    Southampton
    West Ham United
    2012–13
    Cardiff City
    Hull City

    Crystal Palace
    2013–14
    Leicester City
    Burnley
    Queens Park Rangers
    2014–15
    Bournemouth
    Watford

    Norwich City
    2015–16
    Burnley
    Middlesbrough
    Hull City
    2016–17
    Newcastle United (4)
    Brighton & Hove Albion
    Huddersfield Town

    2017–18
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Cardiff City
    Fulham
    2018–19
    Norwich City
    Sheffield United
    Aston Villa


  15. #14
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Redemption View Post
    last 10 season, no parachute payments (the first guest, let's corrrect it)

    2009–10
    Newcastle United
    West Bromwich Albion
    Blackpool
    2010–11
    Queens Park Rangers
    Norwich City
    Swansea City
    2011–12
    Reading
    Southampton
    West Ham United
    2012–13
    Cardiff City
    Hull City

    Crystal Palace
    2013–14
    Leicester City
    Burnley
    Queens Park Rangers
    2014–15
    Bournemouth
    Watford

    Norwich City
    2015–16
    Burnley
    Middlesbrough
    Hull City
    2016–17
    Newcastle United (4)
    Brighton & Hove Albion
    Huddersfield Town

    2017–18
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Cardiff City
    Fulham
    2018–19
    Norwich City
    Sheffield United
    Aston Villa
    Fulham received £16.6m PP in 2017/18


  16. #15
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    typically, I can't edit the original post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Redemption View Post
    last 10 season, no parachute payments (the first guest, let's corrrect it)

    2009–10
    Newcastle United
    West Bromwich Albion
    Blackpool
    2010–11
    Queens Park Rangers
    Norwich City
    Swansea City
    2011–12
    Reading
    Southampton
    West Ham United
    2012–13
    Cardiff City
    Hull City

    Crystal Palace
    2013–14
    Leicester City
    Burnley
    Queens Park Rangers
    2014–15
    Bournemouth
    Watford

    Norwich City
    2015–16
    Burnley
    Middlesbrough
    Hull City
    2016–17
    Newcastle United (4)
    Brighton & Hove Albion
    Huddersfield Town

    2017–18
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Cardiff City
    Fulham
    2018–19
    Norwich City
    Sheffield United
    Aston Villa



  17. #16
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    As the researchers argue, the parachute payment system is no longer relevant now that broadcast revenues for EPL clubs are so large. £100m a season just for turning up ought to make sustainability arguments redundant.


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jumper View Post
    It's essentially a power play to create the same thing, albeit more slowly:

    Propose something unreasonable, but settle for something that slowly but surely creates similar conditions by stealth, pivot back to the original proprposal at some point in the future as by then you've pretty much achieved the original objective and what's the difference
    I think so. It's a slow creeping formation of Premier League 2.

    It's no surprise that as well as over spending some non PP clubs have attempted to come up with creative solutions - Wolves creating an alliance with a super agent and the Portuguese contingent, Leeds bringing in Bielsa on a huge salary, Derby bringing in Chelsea's academy coach and a few of their star young players etc


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by valspoodle View Post
    The Premier League is drowning in money and a few million given to relegated clubs is, I'm sure, neither here nor there to them. Consequently, with more important things to consider, they are content to just jog along with the status quo.
    I can’t imagine Richard Scudamore going jogging with Francis Rossi


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Redemption View Post
    last 10 season, no parachute payments (the first guest, let's corrrect it)

    2009–10
    Newcastle United
    West Bromwich Albion
    Blackpool
    2010–11
    Queens Park Rangers
    Norwich City
    Swansea City
    2011–12
    Reading
    Southampton
    West Ham United
    2012–13
    Cardiff City
    Hull City

    Crystal Palace
    2013–14
    Leicester City
    Burnley
    Queens Park Rangers
    2014–15
    Bournemouth
    Watford

    Norwich City
    2015–16
    Burnley
    Middlesbrough
    Hull City
    2016–17
    Newcastle United (4)
    Brighton & Hove Albion
    Huddersfield Town

    2017–18
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Cardiff City
    Fulham
    2018–19
    Norwich City
    Sheffield United
    Aston Villa
    Is it possible to put a note against those clubs that breached FFP regulations at the time and subsequently had a fine levied at them? Off the top of my head that would be QPR, Leicester and Bournemouth, may also want to put a note against Watford who found a nifty way of hiring in the players needed to get them up?

    That way a truer picture of how clubs playing on a level field fared?


  21. #20

    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Redemption View Post
    last 10 season, no parachute payments (the first guest, let's corrrect it)

    2009–10
    Newcastle United
    West Bromwich Albion
    Blackpool
    2010–11
    Queens Park Rangers
    Norwich City
    Swansea City
    2011–12
    Reading
    Southampton
    West Ham United
    2012–13
    Cardiff City
    Hull City

    Crystal Palace
    2013–14
    Leicester City
    Burnley
    Queens Park Rangers
    2014–15
    Bournemouth
    Watford

    Norwich City
    2015–16
    Burnley
    Middlesbrough
    Hull City
    2016–17
    Newcastle United (4)
    Brighton & Hove Albion
    Huddersfield Town

    2017–18
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Cardiff City
    Fulham
    2018–19
    Norwich City
    Sheffield United
    Aston Villa
    You can see the amounts clubs received here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prem...arity_payments (assuming it's correct of course)


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Look at the teams we've played so far. All above us, with the exception of Fulham who are just below us.
    Now we need to start beating the teams below us and we'll begin to climb as the top teams pull away and that gap starts to develop. Barnsley is a huge game, as will be Stoke, Blackburn, etc.

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  23. #22
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Is anyone else, like me, just starting to feel a little bit of the very outer shell of that built-over-20-seasons pessimism starting to microscopically crack?


  24. #23
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Yes


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    I am. But then I’m tempered by the two decades of experience that Forest will find some way to metaphoricallly shoot themselves in the foot, again.

    I hope I’m wrong though. It could be the year.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Promotion...are you Serious? The two tier Championship

    Not me. I'm still riding on the crest of the wave of staying up under Cotterill


 

 

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