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  1. #376
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    So, let me get this right, Mir starts forthe first time in the season and has one decent chance and a couple of half chances, while Grabban comes on for the last 20 minutes or so and has what was probably the best scoring opportunity from a Forest perspective, but fluffs his lines!

    Yet Mir is branded a useless waste of space?

    On one fucking game?

    Behave!

    Don't get me wrong, if fit, Grabban should start, but slaughtering a lad for a few misses on his first league start is a sign of entitled fans thinking the team are better than they are.

    Mir got into several good goal scoring positions, but he needs time, as every player does, to prove what he can do, but the internet cynics obviously aren't going to give him that.



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  3. #377
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    So, let me get this right, Mir starts forthe first time in the season and has one decent chance and a couple of half chances, while Grabban comes on for the last 20 minutes or so and has what was probably the best scoring opportunity from a Forest perspective, but fluffs his lines!

    Yet Mir is branded a useless waste of space?

    On one fucking game?

    Behave!

    Don't get me wrong, if fit, Grabban should start, but slaughtering a lad for a few misses on his first league start is a sign of entitled fans thinking the team are better than they are.

    Mir got into several good goal scoring positions, but he needs time, as every player does, to prove what he can do, but the internet cynics obviously aren't going to give him that.
    Problem we have Keith is we are set up to create very few chances and therefore have to be clinical when the chances present. You cant really have a passenger otherwise you go down to no marks like Wigan

    It's an oversight of Mondeoman to not bring in guaranteed goals if that's the set up, Mir doesn't come with high regard from Wolves in terms of his goalscoring exploits and to me seems more of a favour signing rather than someone that's gonna be productive.

    Of course goals cost money but if goals get you up, does the cost matter?

    Keane threw a curve ball on Sky on Sunday that left a few mouths open but he was exactly right, "how can United solve their goalscoring problem?"

    Keane "Go buy Harry Kane"

    I'm not advocating buying Kane of course but if you want guaranteed goals you go buy them

    What's wrong with having standards?

    What's wrong with that kind of thinking?

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    Last edited by Barry; 22-10-19 at 11:13.

  4. #378
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I'm not advocating buying Kane of course but if you want guaranteed goals you go buy them
    Jeez, you really think it's thst easy? Some people live in cloud cuckoo land. A top striker wold not only cost a wedge, he'd also want to be playing regularly, not playing second fiddle to Grabban. Oh, and if you did happen to find one of those, you'd then have an unhappy Grabban.


  5. #379
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    So, let me get this right, Mir starts forthe first time in the season and has one decent chance and a couple of half chances, while Grabban comes on for the last 20 minutes or so and has what was probably the best scoring opportunity from a Forest perspective, but fluffs his lines!

    Yet Mir is branded a useless waste of space?

    On one fucking game?

    Behave!
    C'mon Keith, you know they're the rules.


  6. #380
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkshire Red View Post
    Jeez, you really think it's thst easy? Some people live in cloud cuckoo land. A top striker wold not only cost a wedge, he'd also want to be playing regularly, not playing second fiddle to Grabban. Oh, and if you did happen to find one of those, you'd then have an unhappy Grabban.
    Manchester City are outside, waving their trophies enthusiastically and a bag of cheque-book stubs.

    Unfortunately this is modern football - at all levels. You want success quickly, you have to pay for it.

    Keane was right, too. United need to spend, and spend big, on quality.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    — Joe Strummer

  7. #381
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkshire Red View Post
    Jeez, you really think it's thst easy? Some people live in cloud cuckoo land. A top striker wold not only cost a wedge, he'd also want to be playing regularly, not playing second fiddle to Grabban. Oh, and if you did happen to find one of those, you'd then have an unhappy Grabban.
    Tyler Walker would cost £0 and has 30+ goals since the start of last season.

    Is he good enough to replace Grabban? Who knows, but out of trying Tyler, buying a more proven striker, or loaning in an unproven player with a goalscoring record worse than Tyler's 8n Mir, I think we should have chosen more than 1 of those 3 options.

    Olivera was a name I put forward, went to Greece for around 3m, I'd have had him here. Folk say "yeah but it costs", but we've spent 2m for an injured right back not as good as our original one, so it was affordable.

    And Grabbans been dropped for Mir already, so suggesting he'd be any unhappier being dropped for the likes of Olivera I don't buy. If anything I think we'd see 2 strikers more if Mouch had better than Mir here.

    We're 4th, no panic, just need to be aware of things we may have to address in a few months.

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    Last edited by Alf-aSemedoBlueJeans&Chinos; 22-10-19 at 11:48.

  8. #382
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Manchester City are outside, waving their trophies enthusiastically and a bag of cheque-book stubs.

    Unfortunately this is modern football - at all levels. You want success quickly, you have to pay for it.

    Keane was right, too. United need to spend, and spend big, on quality.


    Which is fine if you're a rich club, but we're not. We have to operate within FFP rules with an income of around £20m a season. Not only is that peanuts compared to massive clubs like Man City, its also only a proportion of what clubs like WBA, Fulham, Swansea, Cardiff etc bring in. Leeds would easily be the biggest Championship club financially if there were no parachute payments. Remember it is wages which are the big expenditure.


    We already "went out and bought Kane" when we brought Grabban in. We aren't going to buy another top striker to sit on the bench, but if we're in the top six in January I'd expect boats being pushed out at that point.

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  9. #383
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkshire Red View Post
    Jeez, you really think it's thst easy? Some people live in cloud cuckoo land. A top striker wold not only cost a wedge, he'd also want to be playing regularly, not playing second fiddle to Grabban. Oh, and if you did happen to find one of those, you'd then have an unhappy Grabban.
    Why couldn't we play someone like Mitrovic as the line leader with Grabban playing off him?


  10. #384
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Has Mir signed yet?


  11. #385
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkshire Red View Post
    Jeez, you really think it's thst easy? Some people live in cloud cuckoo land. A top striker wold not only cost a wedge, he'd also want to be playing regularly, not playing second fiddle to Grabban. Oh, and if you did happen to find one of those, you'd then have an unhappy Grabban.
    Yes it is that easy, you want success you have to have good enough players with back ups in every position.

    With how I'm reading your post you dont think we should have genuine competition for Grabs as not to upset him.... what a load of bollocks, successful teams have players playing who have earnt the shirt and are not there by default.... honestly some people deserve to watch championship football for ever more.



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  12. #386
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    I don't buy into this rubbish of 'a player needs time'. Just Wigan game alone, Mir has proved he's not very good! That glorious chance end of first half was poor and so was the shot in 2nd half. Given he has a great first touch but in terms of shooting he just doesn't have it.

    However those banging on about Tyler Walker - not exactly set League One alight has he!


  13. #387
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Manchester City are outside, waving their trophies enthusiastically and a bag of cheque-book stubs.

    Unfortunately this is modern football - at all levels. You want success quickly, you have to pay for it.

    Keane was right, too. United need to spend, and spend big, on quality.
    Agree, I also took it that Keane was saying why spunk say 50 million on somebody who might when you can spunk say 120 million on Kane and you know he will... its arrogant to say but they are Manchester United that's what they should be doing if its success they crave.

    To me to be a winner you have to think like a winner, now I'm not advocating derisory offers again but if your going for it, go for it dont play at it.

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  14. #388
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    Why couldn't we play someone like Mitrovic as the line leader with Grabban playing off him?
    Because 2 up front would blow peoples minds...(I agree with you by the way)

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  15. #389
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Agree, I also took it that Keane was saying why spunk say 50 million on somebody who might when you can spunk say 120 million on Kane and you know he will... its arrogant to say but they are Manchester United that's what they should be doing if its success they crave.

    To me to be a winner you have to think like a winner, now I'm not advocating derisory offers again but if your going for it, go for it dont play at it.

    Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk

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  16. #390
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    Why couldn't we play someone like Mitrovic as the line leader with Grabban playing off him?
    why would Mitrovic take a drop in wages to come to Forest?


  17. #391
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    If we’re signings players on loan they have got to hit the ground running otherwise they’re a waste of time.


  18. #392
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Problem we have Keith is we are set up to create very few chances and therefore have to be clinical when the chances present. You cant really have a passenger otherwise you go down to no marks like Wigan

    It's an oversight of Mondeoman to not bring in guaranteed goals if that's the set up, Mir doesn't come with high regard from Wolves in terms of his goalscoring exploits and to me seems more of a favour signing rather than someone that's gonna be productive.

    Of course goals cost money but if goals get you up, does the cost matter?

    Keane threw a curve ball on Sky on Sunday that left a few mouths open but he was exactly right, "how can United solve their goalscoring problem?"

    Keane "Go buy Harry Kane"

    I'm not advocating buying Kane of course but if you want guaranteed goals you go buy them

    What's wrong with having standards?

    What's wrong with that kind of thinking?

    Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk
    Agree 100% with that Bazza, but slaughtering Mir isn't the answer. The manager made the wrong call, should have started with Grabban instead.


  19. #393
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Yes it is that easy, you want success you have to have good enough players with back ups in every position.
    No, it's not, we're Nottingham Forest and not Man City. Reading some of the stuff on here you'd think that playing Football Manager on your consoles was the same as running a real football club.

    Alf says "just buy Oliveira". Well maybe they tried, maybe Oliveira didn't want to come. Of course they don't have to tell everyone that. But it's assumed that they didn't try to get anyone in.


  20. #394
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    why would Mitrovic take a drop in wages to come to Forest?
    Because Alf and Barry say they would. Not that other clubs might be able to entice them wit more or a different option. Because they live a in a bubble and it's all really easy, especially criticising the management and owners when they didn't do what you like.


  21. #395
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    why would Mitrovic take a drop in wages to come to Forest?
    Did you misread my post?
    I didn't say Mitrovic would be the "line leader" at Forest.
    My post said someone like Mitrovic, and by that I meant a big, agile, physical footballing line leader who could score goals and work in conjunction with Grabban who would benefit from playing off someone "like Mitrovic".
    As to wages, if Forest are serious about getting into the Premiership they are not going to do it unless and until we sign someone with Mitrovic's potential.
    And, yes, of course those players will expect high wages... probably.
    Compared to the reward of >£100 million minimum for being in the Premiership, those wages would seem worth paying... assuming the owner has the deep enough pockets.
    And last season Norwich recruited a chap called Pukki.
    They got him on a free transfer (although I am not so naive as to believe no "golden hello" was paid!).
    I doubt he was on the same wages as Mitrovic, but who knows?
    My point stands: unless and until we recruit a line-leader of that quality we will struggle to compete over the full season with those that are prepared to invest.
    This season there are 7 clubs in the Championship receiving parachute payments.
    History shows that on balance those clubs have a better chance of getting promoted back to the Prem because they can afford the sort of player who makes a difference over the whole season.
    I hope that clarifies my point which you seem to have misconstrued in your response.


  22. #396
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    Did you misread my post?
    I didn't say Mitrovic would be the "line leader" at Forest.
    My post said someone like Mitrovic, and by that I meant a big, agile, physical footballing line leader who could score goals and work in conjunction with Grabban who would benefit from playing off someone "like Mitrovic".
    As to wages, if Forest are serious about getting into the Premiership they are not going to do it unless and until we sign someone with Mitrovic's potential.
    And, yes, of course those players will expect high wages... probably.
    Compared to the reward of >£100 million minimum for being in the Premiership, those wages would seem worth paying... assuming the owner has the deep enough pockets.
    And last season Norwich recruited a chap called Pukki.
    They got him on a free transfer (although I am not so naive as to believe no "golden hello" was paid!).
    I doubt he was on the same wages as Mitrovic, but who knows?
    My point stands: unless and until we recruit a line-leader of that quality we will struggle to compete over the full season with those that are prepared to invest.
    This season there are 7 clubs in the Championship receiving parachute payments.
    History shows that on balance those clubs have a better chance of getting promoted back to the Prem because they can afford the sort of player who makes a difference over the whole season.
    I hope that clarifies my point which you seem to have misconstrued in your response.
    Yes I see what you mean, although the current coach doesn't really favour a "line leader" type forward. And we already signed a proven striker on big wages called Grabban.

    As for the risk-reward equation of reaching the Premier League, I doubt there isn't anyone who doesn't understand the huge rewards on offer, but like some of the others you seem to be ignoring Financial Fair Play rules. Surely this is why the club have invested in bringing in good recruiters who, as we saw in the summer, know how to maximise the limited resources at the club?


  23. #397
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    * cant edit, but the last sentence is in reference to looking for players of good value and potential.


  24. #398
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    We’re in the same predicament as spurs.

    We play with one striker who is our key player. All out efforts and resources are put in to that one striker.

    That means that any other striker coming is going have to either be:

    Happy sat on the bench
    Not good enough to start regular
    Young and unproven

    Or we buy someone better than Grabban.


  25. #399
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Mirs a striker, he's here to score goals & push Grabban for a starting spot. He's far from putting any markers down yet, think that's the mild frustration.

    I've seen Grabban on the bench cheering the team on, he's a team player, I'm sure he'd welcome the competition.


  26. #400
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    Default Re: Rafa Mir is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkshire Red View Post
    Because Alf and Barry say they would. Not that other clubs might be able to entice them wit more or a different option. Because they live a in a bubble and it's all really easy, especially criticising the management and owners when they didn't do what you like.
    Where have I said Mitrovic would take a drop in wages?

    I suggested Olivera. A Championship, now Greek, player who won't be on as much as the Prem player we loaned.

    Your the one living in a bubble if you're just choosing to make things up.

    I'm not expecting the unreasonable. Olivera was a realisticly achieveable signing, with Jenks costing almost as much & likely earning as much too.


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    Last edited by Alf-aSemedoBlueJeans&Chinos; 22-10-19 at 16:12.

 

 

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