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View Poll Results: Where will we finish?

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Thread: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

      
  1. #26
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    The three coming down will all be awash with parachute money & come again. Warnock has every team firing & Parker looks like he's got something, Brom have good enough players if they get the right man & Boro have been held back by Pulis.

    All in all, if we're assessing teams on this seasons showing, then having us top two is optimistic to say the least.
    I hear you on the parachute payments thing, but a disjointed squad and downward momentum has been the curse of many sides dropping down from the Prem. Money can't always get you out of that hole. And as for Warnock, surely it's night nights for that old dog now?
    Boro? Look at the squad, it's ageing and looks lacklustre to me and what new manager is going to inspire that lot? they'll need a big summer, bigger than ours for sure.
    WBA, you may have a point, but I think it'll be next year or bust for them. They'll be in the mix.

    I'm basing my POV not just on this season, but the regular failings of clubs dropping down from the Prem, top clubs looking for new MGMT and the fact that Leeds United are the most detestable pile of shit I've seen since Robbie Savage era Derby County.

    Optimistic, but not unrealistic I think.


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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    It’s not as simple as looking at the teams coming down. Often the second or third season parachute clubs are more of a threat.

    The Championship is a two tier league with parachute teams in the top tier and the rest, including us, in the lower tier. Some parachute teams will under achieve - Boro, Swansea and Stoke this season. Some lower tier teams will overachieve - Sheff U, Leeds and Derby this season.

    Parachute teams dominate the top spots - 6 of the last 8 auto promoted teams. Although those 2 clubs, Wolves and Sheff U were in the past couple of seasons.

    Parachute teams dominate the top ten but Derby have finished in the top 6 in 3 out of the past 4 years to show it is possible to consistently finish in the play offs without parachute payments. Sadly, Huddersfield were the only non parachute club to be promoted through the play offs in the past 4 seasons.

    We may yet see a non parachute club promoted through the play offs this year, but most likely it will be Villa, yet another parachute club.



    Whichever way you look at it’s much harder for a non-parachute club like ours to go up. It’s easy to see why clubs are looking to learn from how Huddersfield, Wolves, Sheff U, and maybe Derby, achieved it in the past four years.

    Last edited by Ravi; 17-05-19 at 18:02.
    “A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and make sure you are.”

  4. #28
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    My money is on 3 managers with MoN gone by the end of September, if he starts the season.

    Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk


  5. #29
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    My money is on 3 managers with MoN gone by the end of September, if he starts the season.

    Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk
    Wouldn't be massively surprised if you're right. I think he'll be gone before Xmas. Either way I'm pretty sure we're gonna be left needing another 'rebuild' next summer.


  6. #30
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    I think we'll just miss out. 7th. Something is bound to fuck us up.


  7. #31
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    At least MON won't be under any illusion that he's got time to build here.

    Even AK naively thought he'd get 2.5 years. MON is only contracted until season end, so will be going for it full bore.



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  8. #32
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post
    , so will be going for it full bore.
    Dougies already tried that.


  9. #33
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    65 points 10th


  10. #34
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    It’s not as simple as looking at the teams coming down. Often the second or third season parachute clubs are more of a threat.

    The Championship is a two tier league with parachute teams in the top tier and the rest, including us, in the lower tier. Some parachute teams will under achieve - Boro, Swansea and Stoke this season. Some lower tier teams will overachieve - Sheff U, Leeds and Derby this season.

    Parachute teams dominate the top spots - 6 of the last 8 auto promoted teams. Although those 2 clubs, Wolves and Sheff U were in the past couple of seasons.

    Parachute teams dominate the top ten but Derby have finished in the top 6 in 3 out of the past 4 years to show it is possible to consistently finish in the play offs without parachute payments. Sadly, Huddersfield were the only non parachute club to be promoted through the play offs in the past 4 seasons.

    We may yet see a non parachute club promoted through the play offs this year, but most likely it will be Villa, yet another parachute club.



    Whichever way you look at it’s much harder for a non-parachute club like ours to go up. It’s easy to see why clubs are looking to learn from how Huddersfield, Wolves, Sheff U, and maybe Derby, achieved it in the past four years.
    Thanks Ravi, that's some great knowledge - A few general thoughts / questions...
    where does that put Forest? As non parachute club, do we have the financial reach to act like one? As a club with a 66 year old Manager who's been round the block do we have the cutting edge to create a progressive model like Hudders and Wolves?
    Or are we trying to do both?


  11. #35
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    All over your Mum‘s face.
    What, again?


  12. #36
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyTomato View Post
    Thanks Ravi, that's some great knowledge - A few general thoughts / questions...
    where does that put Forest? As non parachute club, do we have the financial reach to act like one? As a club with a 66 year old Manager who's been round the block do we have the cutting edge to create a progressive model like Hudders and Wolves?
    Or are we trying to do both?
    Sheff U had a settled squad and a settled and talented manager with momentum after promotion.

    Leeds spent £4m a year on appointing the best coach they could get.

    Derby have changed managers every season, moving from expansive passing football to a percentages approach and back to a progressive high intensity attacking game under a highly rated young manager.

    Wolves flouted ffp and brought in expensive Portuguese players playing expansive attacking football with a manager in his first full season.

    Huddersfield achieved promotion rapidly after appointing a highly rated German coach and signing half a team of German players in a high intensity system.


    Is there a pattern for success from those examples? If there is I can’t see it.

    Good recruitment is always essential. A coach who’s a good fit is essential. A stable and professionally run club is essential.

    As to your last question. I don’t know, but I would think it’s something similar to the Leeds approach - “Bielsa lite”. That is, appoint an experienced coach and hope he can get the squad performing above expectations for a season.

    What do you think?

    Last edited by Ravi; 17-05-19 at 22:26.

  13. #37
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Sheff U had a settled squad and a settled and talented manager with momentum after promotion.

    Leeds spent £4m a year on appointing the best coach they could get.

    Derby have changed managers every season, moving from expansive passing football to a percentages approach and back to a progressive high intensity attacking game under a highly rated young manager.

    Wolves flouted ffp and brought in expensive Portuguese players playing expansive attacking football with a manager in his first full season.

    Huddersfield achieved promotion rapidly after appointing a highly rated German coach and signing half a team of German players in a high intensity system.


    Is there a pattern for success from those examples? If there is I can’t see it.

    Good recruitment is always essential. A coach who’s a good fit is essential. A stable and professionally run club is essential.

    As to your last question. I don’t know, but I would think it’s something similar to the Leeds approach - “Bielsa lite”. That is, appoint an experienced coach and hope he can get the squad performing above expectations for a season.

    What do you think?
    I think in football terms the Greeks underestimated the challenge championship football represents, so we may have to prepare ourselves for a very high spending summer... and though the improvement in the final weeks and growing harmony in the first team could have been a false flag (due to us playing some pretty down and out teams) This momentum may be enough to set us up for a very rewarding season...if and I stress IF we are very smart in the transfer market.

    On that note I think there are two points you made that will really help us attract players that perhaps in recent times would have been totally out of our reach:

    1. A stable and pro run club - Whilst errors may have been made with Karanka, the Greeks have certainly turned us from laughing stock into what I imagine is one of the most attractive clubs outside the Prem
    2. Whatever we may think of MON and his team, their profile in the game is not to be scoffed at and I again think this will attract quality.

    I'd also venture that there are plenty of strikers and indeed players of other positions that could see playing with the likes of Carvs and Lolley as being very enticing. If Grabban can get 18 in a stop start season I'm sure we have the profile now to attract someone who could hit 25+ no problem... and its those 8 or 9 goals that can make the difference between 8th and promotion

    What method is this? Well perhaps its slow and steady improvement rather like (dare I say it) Derby County, yes we've had a revolving door of managers and our league position has been precarious on many an occasion but ever since Warburton and even Monty things have stepped up (yes the Kuwaitis were a shit show, but they did represent a broader scope and reach which has ultimately re-connected the club with the global football world)

    I think a combination of smart recruitment, belief in the core of the current squad and a galvanised fan base puts us right up there. Maybe we should call the method patience.


  14. #38

    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    FA Cup Final


  15. #39
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    I'll have to get back to you on this Harvey.

    Obviously I'm one of those who's happy with MON being our manager - I believe he can make things happen for us. But first I want to see what signings might be made and whether it looks like they are MON's or being made by others. Martin will know what he wants but how many other fingers are in his pie? Once the dust settles I'll make my mind up as to where I think he can take us.


  16. #40
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Too many potential twists & turns to get a clear idea on where we'll finish. Its pissing in the wind without an idea of who we're signing, how much we're forking out & who replaces Martin at Christmas.

    I see us setting out on next seasons win or bust season playing some football, struggling, reverting to the default direct style & ultimately losing touch by Christmas. How far we've lost touch will determine whether the next guy has a shot.

    The only thing that would convince me Martin gets the season, is a monumental raid into the transfer market to paper over the cracks & ensure sentimental shouts like Yates dont feature too much. I dont think that will happen though, I suspect Martins initial selling job on EM involved doing the business with a minimal spend.

    Last edited by MASE; 18-05-19 at 10:15.

  17. #41
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Critical season for me personally, everything that I think that can make us bring some good times back is in place, EM must not interfere.

    We can make a name for ourselves once more, but it's essential MoNaRK pull all the strings.

    Don't fuck this up EM.


  18. #42
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymondo Ponte' View Post
    Critical season for me personally, everything that I think that can make us bring some good times back is in place, EM must not interfere.

    We can make a name for ourselves once more, but it's essential MoNaRK pull all the strings.

    Don't fuck this up EM.
    But Ray, surely we should let some random suit who's never played the game, hasn't anywhere near as many years in the game, and can barely speak English decide the transfers instead?


  19. #43
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post
    But Ray, surely we should let some random suit who's never played the game, hasn't anywhere near as many years in the game, and can barely speak English decide the transfers instead?
    Proceed with caution though mate. One season shoot out, theres a very good chance we get left with the players Martin thought gave him the best chance of promotion.

    History suggests they wont be the players who play the football the club & fans want us too.


  20. #44
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Proceed with caution though mate. One season shoot out, theres a very good chance we get left with the players Martin thought gave him the best chance of promotion.

    History suggests they wont be the players who play the football the club & fans want us too.
    The biggest concern.

    Birmingham got slapped with a 12 point deduction last season for letting Redknapp do exactly that. Maybe if they had a "random suit who's never played the game, hasn't anywhere near as many years in the game, and can barely speak English" rein him in a bit they wouldn't have gotten into that mess.


  21. #45
    Billy Davies long lost lovechild.
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Proceed with caution though mate. One season shoot out, theres a very good chance we get left with the players Martin thought gave him the best chance of promotion.

    History suggests they wont be the players who play the football the club & fans want us too.
    Meh, it's the same shit every year mate so I really don't care anymore. For that to change the owners have to back the manager and not make it all about one season.

    Until that happens, we'll just keep cycling players at cost whoever the manager is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heffing Psycho! View Post
    The biggest concern.

    Birmingham got slapped with a 12 point deduction last season for letting Redknapp do exactly that. Maybe if they had a "random suit who's never played the game, hasn't anywhere near as many years in the game, and can barely speak English" rein him in a bit they wouldn't have gotten into that mess.
    You may as well say "All footballers are rapists coz of Ched Evans" mate Few managers spend like Redknapp.

    I'm easy either way so long as there is harmony & stability. I think we've a damn sight more chance seeing harmony here between MON & the board than with AK, so that's another step forward to me.


  22. #46
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    I daresay old Vangelis can speak better English than some of our fans.

    I met someone who thought angry is spelt with an "I" recently. "It's ingry, innit!", he exclaimed, when I pointed it out.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


  23. #47
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    I daresay old Vangelis can speak better English than some of our fans.

    I met someone who thought angry is spelt with an "I" recently. "It's ingry, innit!", he exclaimed, when I pointed it out.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Fortunately the fans don't sign players or employ managers.


  24. #48
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    7-12th again for me. Occasional sniffs of play offs and time spent in there but ultimately not quite enough to make it. Think Cardiff will be strong again and Fulham still have some quality. Stoke or Birmingham my random picks to have a great season.


  25. #49
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by Project Zeus View Post
    I daresay old Vangelis can speak better English than some of our fans.

    I met someone who thought angry is spelt with an "I" recently. "It's ingry, innit!", he exclaimed, when I pointed it out.
    Fucking peasant. Not academic or middle class enough for Nottingham Forest.


  26. #50
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    Default Re: Where Will We Finish in May 2020?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes' Organ View Post
    Fortunately the fans don't sign players or employ managers.
    Exactly, given the great job Forest have done.


 

 

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