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Thread: Kamil Grosicki

  1. #51
    Billy Davies long lost lovechild.
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    We ain't in a position to buy mainly young players, we've told Martin its promotion or bust so it makes sense to go for a older more proven player.

    The lad has good stats, is used to england/this league so gerrim in
    That's the key thing, club strategy.

    If it wants immediate promotion it needs to be prepared to invest in these players, and be in a position to write off said investment if it doesn't work out.

    If it's not, it shouldn't demand immediate promotion.

    If it's MONs task to get us up next year he needs players ready now. Not ones who need to settle or develop, but ones who know the league and will hit the ground running.



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  3. #52

    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Thing is, best route to success is building for now and the future.

    a 31yr old doesn't guarantee more success for your team than a 22yr old.

    Just two names because we've been linked to them...

    but O'Dowda gives you goals, assists, pace and the opportunity to keep getting better.

    So you likely improve as a team anyway, but you add someone who also likely gets better and increases in value.

    No brainer for me. Regardless of what you're demanding from your manager.

    Ultimately, I hope O'Neill isn't picking players anyway. I want to see consistency in approach, so have Modesto.. etc pick them, so we continue to get the same type/style. So regardless of the demand on the manager, the next one gets the same sort to work with which stops the need for massive changes.


  4. #53
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Stone's Mullet View Post
    Thing is, best route to success is building for now and the future.

    a 31yr old doesn't guarantee more success for your team than a 22yr old.

    Just two names because we've been linked to them...

    but O'Dowda gives you goals, assists, pace and the opportunity to keep getting better.

    So you likely improve as a team anyway, but you add someone who also likely gets better and increases in value.

    No brainer for me. Regardless of what you're demanding from your manager.

    Ultimately, I hope O'Neill isn't picking players anyway. I want to see consistency in approach, so have Modesto.. etc pick them, so we continue to get the same type/style. So regardless of the demand on the manager, the next one gets the same sort to work with which stops the need for massive changes.
    1 major issue with signing young proven players and that's they cost multiple millions an average young championship player now costs 5m+, we need a good balance we can't afford to sign alloy of proven players at a good age so a mix is very much needed.


  5. #54

    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by gamble View Post
    1 major issue with signing young proven players and that's they cost multiple millions an average young championship player now costs 5m+, we need a good balance we can't afford to sign alloy of proven players at a good age so a mix is very much needed.
    They do usually, agreed. IF you pick them up when they're into the last year of their contract though, you get a good deal considering. That's the situation with O'Dowda for instance.

    Sometimes you can spot a player on the up too, even if their stats haven't necessarily been ground breaking, you can see in their style it's coming, and you pick players up on the cusp of taking a big step at a good price too.

    As much as I don't rate him as am manager, Pearce seems to have an eye for that. Antonio for instance was seen as someone with real potential from his Reading days, and we got him at 1.5m or so when he then took that step.

    I think Toney at Posh is someone in a similar boat. Thought of highly as a kid, never really took that step but watching him last season for Posh and Scunny before that he looks like he's on the cusp of being a capable striker.

    James Justin would probably cost 3/4/5m now, but he's someone who'd still be a bargain, cos he's gonna play for England.


  6. #55
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Problem with signing young players who have done well in the Championship, like O'Dowda or Bowen, is that their clubs are unlikely to let such a prized asset go without us paying top whack (we are talking 10m+ here). Even if we are agree a fee, there's the issue of whether or not the player themself actually wants to come here (given that these kinds of players generally attract interest from Premier League and parachute payment clubs). I just don't see us being able to sign these kinds of players.

    Realistically our options are probably:
    1) Sign an older player who has a good record in the Championship (like Grabban or this Grosicki chap).
    2) Gamble on a younger player from the lower leagues or abroad (sometimes you get lucky with an Assombalonga or Figueiredo, but you can also end up with a Zach Clough or Lars Veldwijk).
    3) Look for a player out of favour somewhere and try and get the best out of them (like we did with Lolley)


  7. #56

    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    Problem with signing young players who have done well in the Championship, like O'Dowda or Bowen, is that their clubs are unlikely to let such a prized asset go without us paying top whack (we are talking 10m+ here). Even if we are agree a fee, there's the issue of whether or not the player themself actually wants to come here (given that these kinds of players generally attract interest from Premier League and parachute payment clubs). I just don't see us being able to sign these kinds of players.

    Realistically our options are probably:
    1) Sign an older player who has a good record in the Championship (like Grabban or this Grosicki chap).
    2) Gamble on a younger player from the lower leagues or abroad (sometimes you get lucky with an Assombalonga or Figueiredo, but you can also end up with a Zach Clough or Lars Veldwijk).
    3) Look for a player out of favour somewhere and try and get the best out of them (like we did with Lolley)
    Bowen isn't even on the radar.

    As I said before, there are times you can achieve them. EG O'Dowda having on 12 months left on his deal. Makes him much more affordable.


  8. #57
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Stone's Mullet View Post
    Bowen isn't even on the radar.

    As I said before, there are times you can achieve them. EG O'Dowda having on 12 months left on his deal. Makes him much more affordable.
    Year left on his contract or not, O'Dowda will be far from cheap and most likely will go to the Premier League or a parachute payment club who'll offer him wages that we can't compete with.


  9. #58
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    We need to find our Geoff Thomas, our Dave Phillip's, our Chris Bart William's, our Lars Bohienen, our Colin Cooper and either our SVC or PVH.

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    Last edited by Barry; 27-05-19 at 14:46.

  10. #59
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    Even if we are agree a fee, there's the issue of whether or not the player themself actually wants to come here
    Plus there's the eye test


  11. #60

    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    Year left on his contract or not, O'Dowda will be far from cheap and most likely will go to the Premier League or a parachute payment club who'll offer him wages that we can't compete with.
    Yeah he's not gonna be 500k.

    But even if you stump up 3m, I bet you're paying less in wages than a Grosicki would want. You're getting someone who can contribute already and likely improvement from him so if he goes above and beyond, you're getting more than your money back.

    I'm not against experienced players either. But they're players you want to pick up cheaply. Not 2.5m at 31 and then a 2/3yr deal on likely 15/20k pw.

    There's a smart way of doing business. And in this example, O'Dowda is the smarter business.


  12. #61
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Stone's Mullet View Post
    Yeah he's not gonna be 500k.

    But even if you stump up 3m, I bet you're paying less in wages than a Grosicki would want. You're getting someone who can contribute already and likely improvement from him so if he goes above and beyond, you're getting more than your money back.

    I'm not against experienced players either. But they're players you want to pick up cheaply. Not 2.5m at 31 and then a 2/3yr deal on likely 15/20k pw.

    There's a smart way of doing business. And in this example, O'Dowda is the smarter business.
    O'Dowda will cost a hell of a lot more than 3m, even with a year left on his contract. Imagine if Lolley only had a year left on his contract and we sold him for as little as 3m? There would be uproar.

    O'Dowda will also be in a position to demand higher wages than Grosicki, as he is younger and will have more clubs interested in him. He'll go to a lower Premier League club or someone like Fulham on 40k+ per week.


  13. #62

    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    O'Dowda will cost a hell of a lot more than 3m, even with a year left on his contract. Imagine if Lolley only had a year left on his contract and we sold him for as little as 3m? There would be uproar.

    O'Dowda will also be in a position to demand higher wages than Grosicki, as he is younger and will have more clubs interested in him. He'll go to a lower Premier League club or someone like Fulham on 40k+ per week.
    Hugely disagree with all of that. But no point going around in circles.


  14. #63
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    This scouting lark is clearly a piece of piss. It seems the market is full of young, quick, skillful wingers who can be had at bargain basement prices but Forest just turn a blind eye to it all!

    It's mad really, people were wetting their knickers over Soundani (and looking in the thread, some still are) despite doing the square root of f all since being here (bar being injured). For similar money what we paid, we can get a guy who is a year younger and proven to have similar production as our best player.

    Flog Soundani off to Qatar or China or wherever he was linked to before we signed him and get Grosicki in with the money.


  15. #64

    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    This scouting lark is clearly a piece of piss. It seems the market is full of young, quick, skillful wingers who can be had at bargain basement prices but Forest just turn a blind eye to it all!
    There are a hell of a lot of talented players in this league that clubs signed who people on here would have loved for Forest go for and were relatively fair priced, but we didn't because there's been an obsession at this club for proven experience for sometime.


  16. #65
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Stone's Mullet View Post
    There are a hell of a lot of talented players in this league that clubs signed who people on here would have loved for Forest go for and were relatively fair priced, but we didn't because there's been an obsession at this club for proven experience for sometime.
    I'd love for you to justify that statement because it is simply not true. Last summer we signed a lot of young players (guys under the age of 24), signed some established players (24-30 with experience in this league) and some older players (30+). Just because people can pull names out of a hat on here doesn't mean a) they are/were fairly priced or b) Forest were never interested in the first place.


  17. #66

    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    I'd love for you to justify that statement because it is simply not true. Last summer we signed a lot of young players (guys under the age of 24), signed some established players (24-30 with experience in this league) and some older players (30+). Just because people can pull names out of a hat on here doesn't mean a) they are/were fairly priced or b) Forest were never interested in the first place.
    Our squads over the past decade evidence we've chased proven quality and ended up supplementing the pensions of the like of Greening... etc


  18. #67
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    This scouting lark is clearly a piece of piss. It seems the market is full of young, quick, skillful wingers who can be had at bargain basement prices but Forest just turn a blind eye to it all!

    It's mad really, people were wetting their knickers over Soundani (and looking in the thread, some still are) despite doing the square root of f all since being here (bar being injured). For similar money what we paid, we can get a guy who is a year younger and proven to have similar production as our best player.

    Flog Soundani off to Qatar or China or wherever he was linked to before we signed him and get Grosicki in with the money.
    Bit harsh on Soudani. He didnt have any history of injuries, looked really promising then picked up a freak knee injury.

    ODowda will be 5m+ at minimum which is a fair price. Im not saying we should buy Grosicki over him, or him over Grosicki; its all down to what the players want to do, what their agents advise, what the club offers and who else comes into the market at both clubs. Transfers are proper complex things!

    Ideally wed buy both


  19. #68
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    I just don't get the excitement around Soundani, from what I remember he had one half of decent football where he scored and the rest of the time he offered little to nothing. If you had the choice between him and Grosicki it is a complete no-brainer.

    I understand people want young players with resale value, and that is fine if you want to be a Brentford type in this league. But if you have any ambitions of getting promotion you need a good mix of established players in there too. Grosicki in 16/17 played 15 times in the Premiership and had 5 assists. 17/18 in the Championship 9 goals and 6 assists. 18/19 9 goals and 12 assists. From the wide position that is a great return for in the grand scheme of things little money.


  20. #69
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    I just don't get the excitement around Soundani, from what I remember he had one half of decent football where he scored and the rest of the time he offered little to nothing. If you had the choice between him and Grosicki it is a complete no-brainer.

    I understand people want young players with resale value, and that is fine if you want to be a Brentford type in this league. But if you have any ambitions of getting promotion you need a good mix of established players in there too. Grosicki in 16/17 played 15 times in the Premiership and had 5 assists. 17/18 in the Championship 9 goals and 6 assists. 18/19 9 goals and 12 assists. From the wide position that is a great return for in the grand scheme of things little money.
    With Soudani it's more that we haven't seen enough of him yet, for me at least anyway. Too early to write him off IMO. I certainly wouldn't pin my hopes on him as a first choice starting XI player though.

    Completely agree with regards to Grosicki, he's been an effective player in this league with the stats to back it up. He hasn't magically turned crap just because he's turned 30, he plays in a position where we are crying out for quality and improves the starting XI. Provided the wages are doable, adding him is a no brainer for me.


  21. #70
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Is he messi? Its a no from me

    The above applies to every player we are interested in


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  22. #71
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki



    https://twitter.com/James_Smailes/st...87158083751942


  23. #72
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Heffing Psycho! View Post


    https://twitter.com/James_Smailes/st...87158083751942
    Can't blame him. Last serious contract and maybe some European football.

    Honsetly, in the attacking areas would love some energy and freshness. Would have taken Grosicki but the more I look at it Whyte looks the perfect fit.

    Last edited by BryanRoy; 19-06-19 at 10:05.

  24. #73
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Looks like Steve McDonald of Coronation Street.


  25. #74
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy View Post
    Can't blame him. Last serious contract and maybe some European football.

    Honsetly, in the attacking areas would love some energy and freshness. Would have taken Grosicki but the more I look at it Whyte looks the perfect fit.
    I agree with you I'd rather some youthful legs out wide, I do wonder about the formation as well; if it's the 3-4-2-1 then I think we've already got two starters in Carvalho and Lolley, a crosser from left wing back would be the more important signing in that case considering Carvalho's likelihood to drift inside from that position. I'd say someone off the bench with a bit of pace and the ability to run in behind from wide would be the missing piece, so Whyte perhaps a good fit there.

    Conversely if we switch to a formation with actual wingers and revert to a back 4 I think the addition on the wing becomes a much more important one i.e. would need to be a starter and able to replicate or come close to Lolley's numbers.


  26. #75
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    Default Re: Kamil Grosicki

    Quote Originally Posted by Heffing Psycho! View Post
    I agree with you I'd rather some youthful legs out wide, I do wonder about the formation as well; if it's the 3-4-2-1 then I think we've already got two starters in Carvalho and Lolley, a crosser from left wing back would be the more important signing in that case considering Carvalho's likelihood to drift inside from that position. I'd say someone off the bench with a bit of pace and the ability to run in behind from wide would be the missing piece, so Whyte perhaps a good fit there.

    Conversely if we switch to a formation with actual wingers and revert to a back 4 I think the addition on the wing becomes a much more important one i.e. would need to be a starter and able to replicate or come close to Lolley's numbers.
    100% agree. Got to be aware on the full-back/winger match-up.

    There is so much to like about the 3-4-2-1 system I feel but we also need to be adaptable and I think MON is always been open to that.

    I think Carvalho is such an important player. Say we start him wide of the front 3 but he could also be behind a front 2. We expect that. But I still reckon as he is getting stronger and used to the league he definitely becomes a tactical change during a match where he can drop into the 2 midfielders (have Colback/Yates etc next to him & you got the 3 CB protection and we can use his passing and we can bring on new attacker/Appiah).


 

 

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