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Thread: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

      
  1. #26
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    My experience of actively supporting a football club for over sixty years is that most of the time shit happens; very, very occasionally, something happens that makes enduring all of those shit times somehow worth it.

    I'd strongly argue that the same experience applies to the vast majority of fans of the vast majority of clubs.


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  3. #27
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    What I want to see over the rest of the season....

    I want to see us get at the opposition. If fit, then we field players who are going to pose awkward questions of the opposition. Not like, ‘what is life?’, ‘how big is the universe?’. More like ‘when I skip past you, are you going to risk another yellow card by fouling me?’

    I want, if we (likely) fail to go up this season, is to see us practice our team identity for next season’s promotion campaign and stop our would-be wrist slashers spreading their depression! There is still a lot of entertaining football to see this season. Get behind the lads.


  4. #28
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by RRRREDUN View Post
    What I want to see over the rest of the season....

    I want to see us get at the opposition. If fit, then we field players who are going to pose awkward questions of the opposition. Not like, ‘what is life?’, ‘how big is the universe?’. More like ‘when I skip past you, are you going to risk another yellow card by fouling me?’

    I want, if we (likely) fail to go up this season, is to see us practice our team identity for next season’s promotion campaign and stop our would-be wrist slashers spreading their depression! There is still a lot of entertaining football to see this season. Get behind the lads.
    This. I have resigned myself to the fact that the top 6 is probably out of our reach, but I still want to see us finish as strongly as possible and try to put in some good performances during the remainder of the season. A top 10 finish with improved performances would still show considerable progress since last season, IMO.


  5. #29
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    The thing is you don't build a promotion team in half a season. You might buy one. Forest have done neither for years. The constant churn of managers ensures we will never build one. By the time the fruits of their labours begin to blossom it's already clear the unrealistic expectations will cast a frost over proceedings and the green shoots of hope wither ensuring a rotten harvest for the season. We've been blighted with the same approach season after season.

    Even the buying approach has been half hearted. Too often relying on unproven talent who first need to learn what the Championship is all about. Given time and opportunity most could thrive. Too often they get neither. New manger gets shovelled in. The ideology changes, the players get sidelined, changed or confused and another season slips away.

    It is what it is


  6. #30
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    It's all sliding doors stuff. When you're at the top you can't see it changing,similar to being mediocre or shite. There's no blueprint for success in football. Graham Taylor qualifies us for USA 94 and gets to stay on until Euro 96'. Ferguson gets sacked by Man Utd and goes on to manage somewhere else. Leicester keep Pearson on and don't win the title, Cloughie retires after winning the fa cup and we solidify ourselves in the premiership like Everton or Spurs. None of those seem that unrealistic really.
    Just got to radically accept that, for ninety percent of clubs, there's not enough success to share round, occasionally you get a Leicester, Wimbledon or Wigan winning something but it's very rare. The big four/five have been so for the last ten years now, and will likely continue to be so for the next ten years.
    It's not unique to Forest; clubs make daft signings,appoint daft managers and get bought by daft owners all the time. If it was predictable, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting would it? There's not that much between any of the managers we've had over the last fifteen years or so if you look at their history and what some have gone onto afterwards is there? If a continued 10th place finish was guaranteed, there's be no angst or worries and we'd all quickly get bored and go. Get in the premiership and stick mid-table? Would get pretty monotonous after a while and we'd still just be moaning about the same old shit (were two or three short of top seven, Chris Hughton/David Wagner/David Moyes/Nigel Clough has steadied us but will take us no further, Osborn isn't a mid table premiership player, why has the tenth manager continued to pick him).
    Just soak it up and gain enjoyment where you can, from those misty nights, a killer pass, the smells, the funny chants, chatting with a stranger, seeing and acknowledging a young talent who goes on to make it. Ultimately in ten years time were not going to be that much further or backward, accept it, stop getting so angry and remember why we got into football in the first place.


  7. #31
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTTT View Post
    A post in the Birmingham game thread by the Greek dude made me realise something, he said:

    "It's time to stop moaning over this season and start plannng for the next"

    Well that's the same story EVERY season - or it has been for 20 years now.

    I've supported Forest for over 40 years, and apart from the purple patches in the first years thanks to MR Clough & MR Taylor, and with one or 2 season of promise in between - the never ending merry-go-round of crap players, crap managers, and questionable owners has transpired to turn this into a club of despair.

    Football should give us joy, not despair, and yet every Saturday or other match day invariably ends with the weekend etc being ruined.

    Had enough, will check in in maybe 5 years time to see if anything has changed.

    But I'm not holding my breath.

    By the time I look again we'll have probably had another 30 managers, maybe a new owner or 2, and might be trying to avoid relegation to tier 4.

    That's how low we've sunk through crap ownership and bad management.
    All you youngsters are missing the point.
    Going to the match week in, week out isn't all about the football, nor is supporting a team all about getting promoted and winning the Premiership Title and the Champions League.
    Only 1 team can win the Premiership title each season, and only 1 team can win the Champions League.
    Only 3 teams can win promotion from the Championship to the Premiership.
    Therefore there will always be 19 teams in the Premiership who don't win it, and 21 teams in the Championship who don't get promoted.
    With such odds stacked against any 1 team from winning either, any fan who has "winning" as his (or her) sole motivation is going to be disappointed, disillusioned, and despondent.
    Us old fellas know that the real reason for supporting a team and attending matches is that for those 90 minutes playing time, and the couple of hours before we are taken out of the humdrum of routine existence.
    We get to be part of a throng of people who sing, clap, go "ooh" and who debate and argue over a pint or a soft drink in the pub, or at home, or on the bus.
    Go to the matches with that sense of being part of something; don't go with expectation that we will sweep all aside and get promoted.
    That is what the owners of clubs think; they get none of the joy that you, me and every other supporter gets.
    Yes, we'll play crap sometimes; yes, we'll disagree with the manager/ref/owner/the chap (or chappess) next to us at the game or in the pub, but if being top dog all the time every time is your be all and end all you will get no joy or elation from your supporting.
    Don't finish up bitter, twisted and having tantrums because we haven't won the league, or the game.
    Just take it for what it is: a beautiful, exciting and exhilarating few hours in the week when we can forget our mundane cares and woes.
    We travelled with our Blue-nose friends to the game and back.
    We had a great time, and had a laugh and some enjoyable debates about the game, about our teams' relative merits, about other results...
    It all made for a memorable and brilliant day out.
    It is the same every match for those of us to whom winning is not the be-all and end-all.


  8. #32
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Fair to say this seasons implosion had a much shorter run up. True to form though, we've chosen the wrong path again.

    Whatever, I'll go & support Forest come what may. I took this thing on for life.
    This in Bucketloads! As the saying goes “ A Dog is for Life, not just Christmas “


  9. #33
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    All you youngsters are missing the point.
    Going to the match week in, week out isn't all about the football, nor is supporting a team all about getting promoted and winning the Premiership Title and the Champions League.
    Only 1 team can win the Premiership title each season, and only 1 team can win the Champions League.
    Only 3 teams can win promotion from the Championship to the Premiership.
    Therefore there will always be 19 teams in the Premiership who don't win it, and 21 teams in the Championship who don't get promoted.
    With such odds stacked against any 1 team from winning either, any fan who has "winning" as his (or her) sole motivation is going to be disappointed, disillusioned, and despondent.
    Us old fellas know that the real reason for supporting a team and attending matches is that for those 90 minutes playing time, and the couple of hours before we are taken out of the humdrum of routine existence.
    We get to be part of a throng of people who sing, clap, go "ooh" and who debate and argue over a pint or a soft drink in the pub, or at home, or on the bus.
    Go to the matches with that sense of being part of something; don't go with expectation that we will sweep all aside and get promoted.
    That is what the owners of clubs think; they get none of the joy that you, me and every other supporter gets.
    Yes, we'll play crap sometimes; yes, we'll disagree with the manager/ref/owner/the chap (or chappess) next to us at the game or in the pub, but if being top dog all the time every time is your be all and end all you will get no joy or elation from your supporting.
    Don't finish up bitter, twisted and having tantrums because we haven't won the league, or the game.
    Just take it for what it is: a beautiful, exciting and exhilarating few hours in the week when we can forget our mundane cares and woes.
    We travelled with our Blue-nose friends to the game and back.
    We had a great time, and had a laugh and some enjoyable debates about the game, about our teams' relative merits, about other results...
    It all made for a memorable and brilliant day out.
    It is the same every match for those of us to whom winning is not the be-all and end-all.
    I'd guess you'd probably consider me a 'youngster' and everything you've said would be fine if it were true and we had good football to look forward to and a good atmosphere to be part of. I looked forward to seeing us play under Karanka pretty much every week because I got to see Carvalho, Grabban, Lolley free to try and make things happen. I can't afford to go to matches very often so I like to think when I do buy a ticket I'll get to see Carvalho gliding around and making those brilliant, little touches, Lolley unleashed in the attacking 3rd and so on. At the moment the most exciting thing is seeing how close Pantilimon lands it to Murphy and guessing whether he'll trap it or not, there's no fun in that and the atmosphere at the ground is crap. I can't bring myself to spend the £40-50 it spends to get down to Nottingham and get a ticket to watch that.


  10. #34
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Heffing Psycho! View Post
    I'd guess you'd probably consider me a 'youngster' and everything you've said would be fine if it were true and we had good football to look forward to and a good atmosphere to be part of. I looked forward to seeing us play under Karanka pretty much every week because I got to see Carvalho, Grabban, Lolley free to try and make things happen. I can't afford to go to matches very often so I like to think when I do buy a ticket I'll get to see Carvalho gliding around and making those brilliant, little touches, Lolley unleashed in the attacking 3rd and so on. At the moment the most exciting thing is seeing how close Pantilimon lands it to Murphy and guessing whether he'll trap it or not, there's no fun in that and the atmosphere at the ground is crap. I can't bring myself to spend the £40-50 it spends to get down to Nottingham and get a ticket to watch that.
    I understand your points, particularly the cost of attending, and the time commitment with you travelling from Sheffield.
    And I agree that I would rather see the silky skills of the creative players rather than Cotterill-esgue hoof-ball.
    As Sir Brian used to say "football is meant to be played on the ground; there are no pitches in the clouds".
    Or as me and some others round me say "gerrit on the green bit".
    However, surely you get my points about the rest of the match-day experience: the meeting up with old mates, sitting in among a crowd of like-minded individuals, being part of something more than just "me".
    We might get promoted one day; we moght (heaven forbid) get relegated.
    But as it the quotation from Kipling over the Players' Entrance at Wimbledon says:
    "If you can meet with triumph and disaster
    And treat those two imposters just the same"

    You will enjoy life more in general, and you will certainly enjoy your occasional visits to the City Ground (Barrie: day-tripper alert!!).


  11. #35
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    I understand your points, particularly the cost of attending, and the time commitment with you travelling from Sheffield.
    And I agree that I would rather see the silky skills of the creative players rather than Cotterill-esgue hoof-ball.
    As Sir Brian used to say "football is meant to be played on the ground; there are no pitches in the clouds".
    Or as me and some others round me say "gerrit on the green bit".
    However, surely you get my points about the rest of the match-day experience: the meeting up with old mates, sitting in among a crowd of like-minded individuals, being part of something more than just "me".
    We might get promoted one day; we moght (heaven forbid) get relegated.
    But as it the quotation from Kipling over the Players' Entrance at Wimbledon says:
    "If you can meet with triumph and disaster
    And treat those two imposters just the same"

    You will enjoy life more in general, and you will certainly enjoy your occasional visits to the City Ground (Barrie: day-tripper alert!!).
    Problem is I am treating them the same and both are equally boring at the moment I get your point Cap and I do usually enjoy my trip for the most part, it just rankles a bit when you see the talent we have left on the bench. I enjoyed watching us yesterday when Bonatini, Grabban and Carvalho were on the pitch, if MON can get us playing like that week in week out Marinakis might even give him next season, though I wont hold my breath.


  12. #36
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    All you youngsters are missing the point.
    Going to the match week in, week out isn't all about the football, nor is supporting a team all about getting promoted and winning the Premiership Title and the Champions League.
    Only 1 team can win the Premiership title each season, and only 1 team can win the Champions League.
    Only 3 teams can win promotion from the Championship to the Premiership.
    Therefore there will always be 19 teams in the Premiership who don't win it, and 21 teams in the Championship who don't get promoted.
    With such odds stacked against any 1 team from winning either, any fan who has "winning" as his (or her) sole motivation is going to be disappointed, disillusioned, and despondent.
    Us old fellas know that the real reason for supporting a team and attending matches is that for those 90 minutes playing time, and the couple of hours before we are taken out of the humdrum of routine existence.
    We get to be part of a throng of people who sing, clap, go "ooh" and who debate and argue over a pint or a soft drink in the pub, or at home, or on the bus.
    Go to the matches with that sense of being part of something; don't go with expectation that we will sweep all aside and get promoted.
    That is what the owners of clubs think; they get none of the joy that you, me and every other supporter gets.
    Yes, we'll play crap sometimes; yes, we'll disagree with the manager/ref/owner/the chap (or chappess) next to us at the game or in the pub, but if being top dog all the time every time is your be all and end all you will get no joy or elation from your supporting.
    Don't finish up bitter, twisted and having tantrums because we haven't won the league, or the game.
    Just take it for what it is: a beautiful, exciting and exhilarating few hours in the week when we can forget our mundane cares and woes.
    We travelled with our Blue-nose friends to the game and back.
    We had a great time, and had a laugh and some enjoyable debates about the game, about our teams' relative merits, about other results...
    It all made for a memorable and brilliant day out.
    It is the same every match for those of us to whom winning is not the be-all and end-all.
    This, in spades.

    If winning becomes all consuming then everything else will pale into insignificance.

    All that is left after continual hope is cynicism and despair.

    I'm not giving up my Saturday afternoon to become even more of a miserable **** than I am already.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


  13. #37
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    You are absolutely right, so much of being a fan is about the social interaction. Our day will come again, on the law of averages it should be soon. But football in England is bloody competitive and there are generally more ups than downs.Unfortunately, being a football fan is a life sentence!


  14. #38
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wred View Post
    You are absolutely right, so much of being a fan is about the social interaction. Our day will come again, on the law of averages it should be soon. But football in England is bloody competitive and there are generally more ups than downs.Unfortunately, being a football fan is a life sentence!
    I completely agree with your general point, except I'd argue that there are far more downs than ups.


  15. #39
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Plus, it gives us all a free license to have a good rant and moan on-line to a bunch of anonymous, like minded, long time suffering Forest fans.


    'Intelligence without ambition is a bird without wings' - Salvador Dali 1904-1989

    I think 'odd' is a good thing. Oddness shows originality, uniqueness and a desire to be different from the masses. Oddness is, maybe, only deemed 'odd' by the majority who are considered less odd but only by their own blinkered observations and understanding. Oddness should never be criticised but be encouraged to nurture, develop individualism and to explore the mind rather than conform to expectation and 'normality'. Many of the world's greatest works of art and prose were born from those minds many considered to be 'odd'.
    [/url]

  16. #40
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post
    Annoying, but expected.

    Maybe if when the club sacked Warbs more fans had kicked up a stink they'd have been more aware of how much an AK "sacking" would have caused an upset, and tempered their actions & reactions slighty?

    Just a suggestion.
    Again Alf, you’re ignoring the differing contexts. Warburton came to a club in a mess and was one of the few managers still daft enough to come to work for Fawaz. None of the better managers would have touched the club with a barge pole. A year later it was the right decision for a club under new owners and out of ‘intensive care’ to look to push on and appoint a proven Championship manager instead of Warburton. You might disagree that Karanka is a better manager, but objectively that is what the club were looking to do.

    Last edited by Ravi; 03-02-19 at 17:45.
    Stand Firm And Strike Hard

  17. #41
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Some of you may be interested in this extract from a recent edition of Anthropology Today which identifies characteristic “human tribes”.

    On of the markers for this group is the triumph of hope over experience. This group contains inveterate gamblers,City financiers and, most markedly, football fans.

    We believe this marker must have given the group an evolutionary advantage. After all, if food was very scarce and days of hunting provided no prey the most natural response must have been to lie down and die. However, the “h over ex” as we shall call them never gave up and kept plugging away until some source of food was eventually discovered. Without them humans would have ceased to exist many thousands of years ago.

    It is our fervent belief that there has to be some reason for football fans to exist, and their ancestors actions should provide a justification for them and an explanation for their continuing and persistent presence in the population.”


  18. #42
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Again Alf, you’re ignoring the differing contexts. Warburton came to a club in a mess and was one of the few managers still daft enough to come to work for Fawaz. None of the better managers would have touched the club with a barge pole. A year later it was the right decision for a club under new owners and out of ‘intensive care’ to look to push on and appoint a proven Championship manager instead of Warburton. You might disagree that Karanka is a better manager, but objectively that is what the club were looking to do.
    IMO, both then & now, it was a premature change.


  19. #43
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    Default Re: The Sun Will Come Out, Tomorrow...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post
    IMO, both then & now, it was a premature change.
    I think we get it.


 

 

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