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  1. #301
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rzarecteh View Post
    We have too many CBs, Wague has been fine in my eyes but when you have players like Worrall & Figuerido coming back there is no point in signing him.
    Wague has been ok. But given his lack of appearances over the years it’s only a matter of time before a sniper puts him out for a decade.


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  3. #302
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Colback having a year left might work in our favour as we could be favourites for another season-long loan as opposed to parachute-payment clubs throwing big wages at him. It's next summer when the big decision is to be made.


  4. #303
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by eugenboppboppbopp View Post
    It's funny how Yates was allowed by Boro 'giving us the midfield' to make him look good but Pele and Carv just tore them apart with no mention of this.

    The previous game v Sheff U, Yates got slated but was far better than Pele...
    Pele & Yates are playing two different roles, Yates is clearing up, given Pele is the more dynamic he naturally catches the eye. I've certainly given the gash Boro caveat in any appraisals of anything from Monday.

    Both players have got it to prove when theyre pressed in our half.


  5. #304
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Pele & Yates are playing two different roles, Yates is clearing up, given Pele is the more dynamic he naturally catches the eye. I've certainly given the gash Boro caveat in any appraisals of anything from Monday.

    Both players have got it to prove when theyre pressed in our half.
    Both Yates and pele played well on the weekend, Pele played some very loose balls early on but then dominated...and with Yates i’m Totally blinded by his enthusiasm and tenacity so will have to pass holding logical judgement, but I don’t doubt there will be a CM signing in the summer that will improve on all of them Colback included....bugger knows who that will be though!


  6. #305
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Pele has so much we looking for in type of midfielder.

    When he is good , he is good but when he has been poor he has been really poor. But then again a new league and a new environment is never easy for anyone. Doesn't have his wife or new born child with him for example.

    The fact is, what do players of his pedigree and type usually cost ? Are there lots of alternatives out there ? Definitely not many realisitc in England. He is a good age too but I do think it is highly unlikely we will bring him back.


  7. #306
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    If he cost Monaco £9m last summer then I can’t see us being able to afford him even if he’s available. Maybe another loan, but that seems unlikely.

    It only takes a second to score a goal.

  8. #307
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy View Post
    Pele has so much we looking for in type of midfielder.

    When he is good , he is good but when he has been poor he has been really poor. But then again a new league and a new environment is never easy for anyone. Doesn't have his wife or new born child with him for example.

    The fact is, what do players of his pedigree and type usually cost ? Are there lots of alternatives out there ? Definitely not many realisitc in England. He is a good age too but I do think it is highly unlikely we will bring him back.
    This then begs the question as to what is the purpose of the loan system?
    Is it:
    a) To get a player fit and a few matches under his belt before he returns to his parent club?
    b) Part of a "try before you buy" strategy?
    c) Parent club dumping unwanted dross onto lower league teams in a bid to cut the wage bill?
    With Forest in the position of aspiring to secure promotion I would hope the reason we took Pele was because MON identified a weakness in our playing resources, and the possibility that Pele could be the right player to strengthen us in that weak area.
    And along side this I would hope that before taking a loan player there would be a side agreement of some form giving us the opportunity to purchase the player should the loan be successful for the player and for us.
    If it was just a panic measure, and Pele was the only option available for a short period I would be disappointed.
    Every step we take ought to have a positive driving strategy behind it.
    If it doesn't, it just panic and without plan or form.
    So, I hope Pele will be with us next season, as our player, and that he becomes as much-loved a character as say Moussi, or even Gueds.
    If we are going places, let's hope we have a proper plan and we only take actions that support that plan and its objectives.


  9. #308
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    If he cost Monaco £9m last summer then I can’t see us being able to afford him even if he’s available. Maybe another loan, but that seems unlikely.
    I hadn't realised he went for quite that much. Do we think that fee is over-inflated by the co-ownership issue?


  10. #309
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by congo_red View Post
    I hadn't realised he went for quite that much. Do we think that fee is over-inflated by the co-ownership issue?
    That is highly probable, as is the possibility that the owner gets the Club to pay an inflated price for the player, then has an under the counter arrangement with the selling club and the player's agent for a decent "private" back-hander.
    Football is kind of corrupt, and money corrupts absolutely.


  11. #310
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    Default Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    „We can’t afford Judilson! He went for €9m!“

    Yes, and Ben Brereton went for £7m also.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    — Joe Strummer

  12. #311
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    „We can’t afford Judilson! He went for €9m!“

    Yes, and Ben Brereton went for £7m also.
    Looking at that coldly - neither are worth those amounts.


  13. #312
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by congo_red View Post
    Looking at that coldly - neither are worth those amounts.
    Well, yes, that’s kind of my point. The transfer fee attached to some players is often just randomly made up I reckon (if being harsh, you could throw that accusation at João Carvalho also, but he will come to be worth it).


  14. #313
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Well, yes, that’s kind of my point. The transfer fee attached to some players is often just randomly made up I reckon (if being harsh, you could throw that accusation at João Carvalho also, but he will come to be worth it).
    The price agreed between a willing seller and a willing buyer is the market price for the commodity that is the subject of the contract.
    Whether we believe that price is "value for money" or not is irrelevant.
    And just because a contract is exchanged at £x million today doesn't actually mean that any future transactions regarding the subject of that contract will be transacted at the same price.
    Taking a loss or making a profit will be a factor in the arriving at a price the seller will accept, but it will be one of many factors.


  15. #314
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    This then begs the question as to what is the purpose of the loan system?
    Is it:
    a) To get a player fit and a few matches under his belt before he returns to his parent club?
    b) Part of a "try before you buy" strategy?
    c) Parent club dumping unwanted dross onto lower league teams in a bid to cut the wage bill?
    With Forest in the position of aspiring to secure promotion I would hope the reason we took Pele was because MON identified a weakness in our playing resources, and the possibility that Pele could be the right player to strengthen us in that weak area.
    And along side this I would hope that before taking a loan player there would be a side agreement of some form giving us the opportunity to purchase the player should the loan be successful for the player and for us.
    If it was just a panic measure, and Pele was the only option available for a short period I would be disappointed.
    Every step we take ought to have a positive driving strategy behind it.
    If it doesn't, it just panic and without plan or form.
    So, I hope Pele will be with us next season, as our player, and that he becomes as much-loved a character as say Moussi, or even Gueds.
    If we are going places, let's hope we have a proper plan and we only take actions that support that plan and its objectives.
    You are right Cap.

    My summation is that we had our list of possible additions and considering there was a change in management a loan looked the most likely. The club then used their connections to get a player of decent pedigree.

    What is clear under the current manager is the loanee is seen ahead of our own players at the moment in Watson, Guedioura, Yacob. It possibly may effect these guys to. Who knows.


  16. #315
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Although Pelé is not officially Mendes' client, it is widely rumoured that he controls Pelé's future, which is why his name continues to pop up in the Greek press as a target for us. Given that we are in the middle of complex negotiations with Mendes (we currently employ five of his clients, two of them excellent, one OK, two utter dross, including the one you've burdened us with), Pelé's future will probably be decided as an integral part of these negotiations.


  17. #316
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    I'd imagine we will be matching or even surpassing our transfer record this summer, I doubt it would be for Pele, but then what do I know! But based on last summer, the depth of the pockets and the level of the aspirations, I'm sure da management will have plenty of spending power.

    Last edited by TommyT; 24-04-19 at 12:48.

  18. #317
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyTomato View Post
    I'd imagine we will be matching or even surpassing our transfer record this summer, I doubt it would be for Pele, but then what do I know! But based on last summer, the depth of the pockets and the level of the aspirations, I'm sure da management will have plenty of spending power.
    Nah, James McLean won't set us back more than £1m


  19. #318
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    I think he is absolutely worth the investment in the summer. He is a natural replacement for Guedioura who is ageing and not as reliable on the ball.


  20. #319
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    If he were to come back it would probably be a loan. He has 4 years left on his Monaco deal, and don't see why they would be in a rush to sell him when he won't recoup the fee they paid.

    Between Oly & us we have signed 9 Mendes connected players this season - 7 loan and 2 perm (Podence [free] & Carvalho [13m]).

    Last edited by Rzarecteh; 24-04-19 at 16:03.

  21. #320
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by congo_red View Post
    I hadn't realised he went for quite that much. Do we think that fee is over-inflated by the co-ownership issue?
    No, he did have an excellent season for Rio Ave before he moved, he was all set to go to Wolves but ended up going to Monaco instead. He's been very highly rated at big clubs all his career he has just never managed to get game time there so ends up going out on loan.

    I think his general game suits England, the games he has struggled is where he has got hassled because of the speed of the game. He will get used to that, his physicality is more than good enough.


  22. #321
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Thats fair, he does look like an O'Neill type of player.

    Sadly I speak as someone who wants pace, creativity & an ability to move the ball quicker. Don't think he'll bring that, but he'll likely fit into the O'Neill ethos all the same.
    Maybe not real pace, but motors forward well. Some great passes, some of them instant, so yes for creativity and moving the ball quickly.

    Hasn't been consistently good but he's only played a handful of games.


  23. #322
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ubik View Post
    Maybe not real pace, but motors forward well. Some great passes, some of them instant, so yes for creativity and moving the ball quickly.

    Hasn't been consistently good but he's only played a handful of games.
    He is very good with the ball, he reminds me of Bouchalakis but with better mobility and physicality - something that stopped Bouchalakis being a real success here.

    I love those tackles he does where he swings his body weight around and just leaves the opposition player behind him.


  24. #323
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Sorry, that was a reply to a comment made on 2 April! Thought I was on the latest page of the thread. Mase has already updated his opinion of Pele.


  25. #324
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Carvel View Post
    I think he is absolutely worth the investment in the summer. He is a natural replacement for Guedioura who is ageing and not as reliable on the ball.
    Could be, feel like I haven't seen enough of him, certainly better than Watson that's for damn skippy.


  26. #325
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    Default Re: Judilson Mamadu Tuncará Gomes (Pelé!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rzarecteh View Post
    Between Oly & us we have signed 9 Mendes connected players this season - 7 loan and 2 perm (Podence [free] & Carvalho [13m]).
    There's no guarantee that the situation will be similar next year. Apart from Podence, we really want to keep the goalkeeper, José Sá, who's excellent; but, althought we agreed to pay the pre-arranged option to his team, he asks for a lot of money for his contract and Mendes may ship him elsewhere. If this happens, I doubt the joint owner will agree to such an extensive arrangement with both teams.

    Dias, incidentally, is utter dross, much worse than how he played for you.


 

 

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