Welcome to the LTLF Forest Forum.
Page 217 of 224 FirstFirst ... 117167207215216217218219 ... LastLast
Results 5,401 to 5,425 of 5582

Thread: It's Martin !

      
  1. #5401
    It's all about mid-table...
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Wetherspoons
    Posts
    15,711

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    THIS is the most important season in TWO DECADES.

    Fuk this up, well me Ravz Oats OMR Cap Heisen Eugine etc might as well jump in a furnace or a 6ft hole.


  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many

  3. #5402
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    29,108

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymondo Ponte' View Post
    THIS is the most important season in TWO DECADES.

    Fuk this up, well me Ravz Oats OMR Cap Heisen Eugine etc might as well jump in a furnace or a 6ft hole.
    It could be the last chance for the more senior fans.


  4. #5403
    The Clapham Crusader
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    The Cockpit
    Posts
    22,123

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Kjetil Osvald's Cat View Post
    Damn it, now I feel bad for liking the responses to this mate!!

    It's all about opinions though I guess, and you are brave/bold for expressing that one (or maybe you just love winding people like me up lol - in which case I shouldn't feel bad about those likes!). To be fair I'm not as enthusiastic about Colback as some and I never felt Fox was as good as plenty had decided he was in the end, but I didn't want to enrage anyone with those opinions (or feel bad about putting the players down!).

    So no hard feelings, and I'll be helpful and leave this link here to help you out - I've just got a feeling it might
    https://www.visionexpress.com/book-e...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
    Don't worry about it mate.

    OK I'll admit Carvalho isn't exactly average, but Lolley has contributed more despite costing only a fraction of the price.

    The original point was about a manager spending lots of money on ineffectual players, and I'm sorry but for me Joao hasn't looked anything like worth £13m when assessed in light of the player mentioned above, as an example.

    So far.


  5. #5404
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    1,052

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
    Don't worry about it mate.

    OK I'll admit Carvalho isn't exactly average, but Lolley has contributed more despite costing only a fraction of the price.

    The original point was about a manager spending lots of money on ineffectual players, and I'm sorry but for me Joao hasn't looked anything like worth £13m when assessed in light of the player mentioned above, as an example.

    So far.
    I think there is a balance to be struck between the two. Lolley was massively undervalued and someone at Huddersfield should be getting a screwing for that. Yes we did pay over the odds for Carvalho although some may have been a punt on his potential. I still think this could be a Marinakis way of inflating his price to potentially purchase at bigger money for Oly without it raising too many eyebrows. In terms of the balance though it would be difficult to imagine we could have got 2 better quality players in their positions for an overall figure of less than £14M.




    Sent from my sweaty palms using Tapatalk

    Last edited by Notcher; 20-05-19 at 12:46.

  6. #5405
    The Clapham Crusader
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    The Cockpit
    Posts
    22,123

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Notcher View Post
    I think there is a balance to be struck between the two. Lolley was massively undervalued and someone at Huddersfield should be getting a screwing for that. Yes we did paid over the odds for Carvalho although some may have been a punt on his potential. I still think this could be a Marinakis way of inflating his price to potentially purchase at bigger money for Oly without it raising too many eyebrows. In terms of the balance though it would be difficult to imagine we could have got 2 better quality players in their portions for an overall figure of less than £14M.
    Sorry I hate to nitpick but my post was in response to another post about managers spending too much on players to the detriment of the club.

    As far as I can see if we hadn't signed Carvalho we'd still be in the same position we are now - ie. still in the Championship. Only £13m better off. He hasn't contributed anything to suggest that without him we'd have been relegated.

    I'm just wondering when we're going to see £13m worth of return. Cos we haven't yet.


  7. #5406
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    6,206

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
    Sorry I hate to nitpick but my post was in response to another post about managers spending too much on players to the detriment of the club.

    As far as I can see if we hadn't signed Carvalho we'd still be in the same position we are now - ie. still in the Championship. Only £13m better off. He hasn't contributed anything to suggest that without him we'd have been relegated.

    I'm just wondering when we're going to see £13m worth of return. Cos we haven't yet.
    Not easy to justify your price tag while sat on the bench as shit like Ben Watson lumber around the midfield


  8. #5407
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    queing up for a cob
    Posts
    4,417

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Carvalho has had plenty of opportunity this season.

    He's looked positive, but hasn't been the top performer despite being the most expensive.

    However, you could argue that it's an investment in time as well money. With a championship season under his belt he will hopefully perform even better in 2019-20.

    Pork - Stuffing - Apple Sauce

  9. #5408
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,521

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Carvalho has also been chucked in matches where we've gone direct which was pretty pointless. When we play the wingback 3-5-2 or 3-5-1-1 rather than 4-1-4-1 he is much more effective.

    You need to be phsyical in this league and Carv will be a lot more perpared this time around. I hope whoever gets brought in also has the technical ability to work on the same wavelength.


  10. #5409
    Forum Tactician
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    B C UPPER
    Posts
    13,701

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Yates View Post
    Not easy to justify your price tag while sat on the bench as shit like Ben Watson lumber around the midfield
    Exactly, Id be far happier to question Carvalho had

    a) Karanka been given the whole season.
    b) Martin not decided to take Irelands ridiculous lead & bench one of our only three viable attacking outlets.
    c) Martin not compounded that problem by leaving him out of the passing game.

    Irrespective of all that, its too soon to suggest Carvalho hasnt justified the price anyway.

    He'll come on for the run, IF he's given a fair go next season.


  11. #5410
    Best served cold
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Cliftonia
    Posts
    24,398

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Exactly, Id be far happier to question Carvalho had

    a) Karanka been given the whole season.
    b) Martin not decided to take Irelands ridiculous lead & bench one of our only three viable attacking outlets.
    c) Martin not compounded that problem by leaving him out of the passing game.

    Irrespective of all that, its too soon to suggest Carvalho hasnt justified the price anyway.

    He'll come on for the run, IF he's given a fair go next season.
    Carvalho was a key part of a side pushing for the play offs. He might not have been setting the league on fire with eye catching displays every week, but he was still an influence and an important part of the way the side was set up to play. Once he was taken out of the side we gradually fell further and further away. That wasn't the only reason but it was a factor.

    4 starts under MON - 3 of which resulted in victories.

    "I've been blessed with many things in this life: an arm like a damn rocket, a c**k like a burmese python, and the mind of a f**king scientist" - Kenny Powers

  12. #5411
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,521

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    Carvalho was a key part of a side pushing for the play offs. He might not have been setting the league on fire with eye catching displays every week, but he was still an influence and an important part of the way the side was set up to play. Once he was taken out of the side we gradually fell further and further away. That wasn't the only reason but it was a factor.

    4 starts under MON - 3 of which resulted in victories.
    I take those end of season victories with a pinch of salt. QPR was a Pants masterclass and Bolton was a friendly. What they did show is that if Carv is the focal point in a flowing passing game, he is much more effective than when you're punting it high to the target man every time.

    My biggest worry is that this will be MON's Plan B or C when his tried and tested direct game doesn't go to plan.


  13. #5412
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    2,721

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Trents View Post
    I take those end of season victories with a pinch of salt. QPR was a Pants masterclass and Bolton was a friendly. What they did show is that if Carv is the focal point in a flowing passing game, he is much more effective than when you're punting it high to the target man every time.

    My biggest worry is that this will be MON's Plan B or C when his tried and tested direct game doesn't go to plan.
    But we won 3 on the bounce so gonna win the league next year don’t ya know that?


  14. #5413

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post

    I'm just wondering when we're going to see £13m worth of return. Cos we haven't yet.
    If anyone can get it out of him MON can. His time on the bench will have done him the world of good, and this pre-season will hopefully see MON match his brilliance with consistancy.


  15. #5414
    Miserable bastard
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    , Location, Location.
    Posts
    20,674

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Realistically, I don't think you spend £13m on a young player, with a total of around 20 first team games under his belt, moving abroad for the first time to a very different style of football - and expect to get your moneys worth in just one season.


  16. #5415

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Trents View Post
    I take those end of season victories with a pinch of salt. QPR was a Pants masterclass and Bolton was a friendly. What they did show is that if Carv is the focal point in a flowing passing game, he is much more effective than when you're punting it high to the target man every time.

    My biggest worry is that this will be MON's Plan B or C when his tried and tested direct game doesn't go to plan.
    I get not reading into those last games as much, but MON was trying to play a more passing game for several games before that too. So factor that in to how we play.

    I also don't think MON will have a plan A, B or C. I just think he'll have several plans which are opposition dependant, and that's why we saw a fair bit of change throughout the arse end of last season.


  17. #5416
    Forum Tactician
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    B C UPPER
    Posts
    13,701

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post
    His time on the bench will have done him the world of good,
    I don't see how, I also find that small consolation for missing out on the play offs.

    I think the spell on the sidelines was a step back in his Forest career, great performance against Boro, but that was more Boro than it was an indicator that martin had managed him effectively by benching him at such a critical time.

    He'll get consistency by playing, something he wasnt afforded, Im definitely not in the camp that suggests that was a smart move for the player or his confidence.

    Last edited by MASE; 20-05-19 at 13:08.

  18. #5417

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    I don't see how, I also find that small consolation for missing out on the play offs.

    I think the spell on the sidelines was a step back in his Forest career, great performance against Stoke, but that was more Stoke than it was an indicator that martin had managed him effectively by benching him at such a critical time.

    He'll get consistency by playing, something he wasnt afforded, Im definitely not in the camp that suggests that was a smart move for the player or his confidence.
    We weren't making the playoffs IMO, so I've no issue with it. That boat sailed, as you yourself have said, when the board decided to pull the plug on investing properly in Jan. I've said that all season and stand by it.

    Regards his time on the bench,we can both have our opinions on this but time alone will tell. After seeing how he responded at Boro, my money is on him both stepping up a notch this year, and us also having a more rounded team which isn't as reliant on him too.


  19. #5418
    Best served cold
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Cliftonia
    Posts
    24,398

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Trents View Post
    I take those end of season victories with a pinch of salt.
    So do I - but you still have to win them. They also still offer insights into the squad and it's workings, as you point out what they showed MON RE: Carvalho as a focal point to a passing game.


  20. #5419
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    The leafy, rarified suburb of Sneinton, Nottingham.
    Posts
    9,761

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post
    But don't trust the evil ooutdated Forest men sho sign Prem players for under 2m, Soudani's where it's at
    I take it you couldn't quite resist that one Alf?


  21. #5420
    Best served cold
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Cliftonia
    Posts
    24,398

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post
    After seeing how he responded at Boro.
    I am still not convinced his performance in that game was a response to MON not playing him. IMO it was just as much a response from the rest of the side for MON not setting us up to just shut the opposition down and spoil the game. The whole side were given a freedom to pass it around and play football in a manner much more suited to the squads makeup.

    Whether or not that leads to anything next season is another story, but I don't believe Carvalho will ever be suited to MON's favoured direct approach. Interesting summer ahead whatever happens


  22. #5421
    Forum Tactician
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    B C UPPER
    Posts
    13,701

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post
    We weren't making the playoffs IMO, so I've no issue with it.
    Giving up that easily, I don't see us making them any time soon. I agree the boards input into January was a contributory factor, but so was Martins failure to react. Its the elephant in the room mate, its why his recruitment strategy will be watched with a great deal of hesitancy this summer. Does what we've seen so far suggest he's got a handle on what it takes to recruit for a promotion push in this league.


  23. #5422
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,521

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    We were still in with a sniff of 6th spot though well after MON arrived. He'd been in the post long enough to assess the squad by the time we drew at Ipswich and stole a win at home v Swans. We then went into April and lost against Rotherham, Wednesday, Blackburn and Sheff Utd. The lack of urgency and ideas in those matches was horrible to watch. No fight to be seen.

    We missed out on the playoffs by 8 points, to say we would never have made them is a bit much IMO.


  24. #5423

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Otis Redd'un View Post
    I take it you couldn't quite resist that one Alf?


    Quote Originally Posted by incapable hulk View Post
    I am still not convinced his performance in that game was a response to MON not playing him. IMO it was just as much a response from the rest of the side for MON not setting us up to just shut the opposition down and spoil the game. The whole side were given a freedom to pass it around and play football in a manner much more suited to the squads makeup.

    Whether or not that leads to anything next season is another story, but I don't believe Carvalho will ever be suited to MON's favoured direct approach. Interesting summer ahead whatever happens
    Tbh it's a fair POV mate. I definitely think there was an element to Boro allowing us to exploit them, which resulted in said exploitation.

    But ultimately it was Carva's best game for us without a doubt, and I personally feel as if there was an element of freedom which came from his development with MON.

    Time will tell. Personally I'm very excited for next season.

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Giving up that easily, I don't see us making them any time soon. I agree the boards input into January was a contributory factor, but so was Martins failure to react. Its the elephant in the room mate, its why his recruitment strategy will be watched with a great deal of hesitancy this summer. Does what we've seen so far suggest he's got a handle on what it takes to recruit for a promotion push in this league.
    I'm more than happy to judge on signings rather than worry about the what if's beforehand. I've also accepted that every year will be a overhaul to smoe degree with these owners, so facing another next year doesn't bother me.

    Folk may worry about FFP, but that ball started rolling last year, not this. So we've just got to go with it now.


  25. #5424
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    269

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    I don't see how, I also find that small consolation for missing out on the play offs.

    I think the spell on the sidelines was a step back in his Forest career, great performance against Stoke, but that was more Stoke than it was an indicator that martin had managed him effectively by benching him at such a critical time.

    He'll get consistency by playing, something he wasnt afforded, Im definitely not in the camp that suggests that was a smart move for the player or his confidence.
    What was this great performance at Stoke? I was there to see Carvalho come on as sub,do nothing apart from give ball away to concede second goal and turn a 1-0 defeat into a 2-0 defeat. Did I miss something?


  26. #5425
    Forum Tactician
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    B C UPPER
    Posts
    13,701

    Default Re: It's Martin !

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post

    But ultimately it was Carva's best game for us without a doubt, and I personally feel as if there was an element of freedom which came from his development with MON.
    Agree on the good will of Pulis & Boro, Ive never seen a more accommodating side come to us & give us the freedom of the pitch yet be just high enough to allow us in behind every time.

    Have to say, you've made some tenuous statements re Martins input so far, but the above is a total headscratcher. Martins done absolutely zero for Carvalhos development.


 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •