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Thread: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

      
  1. #1
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    Default Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    I've noticed that scouting is not mentioned in Forest's organigram (apart from a Head of Academy recruitment, which is a differnt story), nor was it back in the days when you had a DoF. I'm not familiar with how scouting works in British football below the level of top clubs. So how does it work for you?

    I know basically three scouting models. The first is practiced in very big clubs, or in very successful selling clubs (like Porto), which rely on bying cheap and selling expensively: they have a large team of dedicated scouters, usually with areas of expertise (Latin America, Eastern Europe, British football, etc.). Members of this team are often affiliated with local scouting networks, which means that, when they're on a trip to see a player they don't go blind, they know who to look for.

    The second model is a single DoF or a chief scout making key scouting decisions; he is usually left on his own as to how he forms his unofficial network of collaborating scouts.

    The third model basically foregoes scouting in favour of the agents' network. Proposals by some powerful agents are evaluated on an individual basis by the DoF (if there is any) and the manager.

    So how does scouting work at Forest?

    In my view, for a club like Forest the most crucial part of scouting is scouting for the academy. You need to attract the best young talent available there.


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Whether you are asking how it works now or how it’s worked in the past I don’t know.

    If your asking how it worked in the past, we haven’t had one. Our old scouting system was scrapped and was non-existent and we just relied on managers market knowledge, which is scandalous.

    As for the academy, that’s managed by Gary Brazil with plenty of local scouts and a fair few in Scandinavia too.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Some one from the office reads LTLF, Vital Forest and The Twitter to get a long list off options .

    They get the players stats from FM17 and build a forest team and try to win the champions league.

    THe players they like go onto the playlist on YouTube.

    The manager is invited to watch the playlist and identify his choices.

    Scouting the Forest way.

    I perform an important role here by making the early post about upcoming transfers. It gives us a broader selection of options.

    It's not improvable imho.

    Last edited by Redemption; 27-01-18 at 10:57.
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  5. #4
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Organigram

    By "relegation battle", do you mean 7th, 12th or 14th?

    Quote Originally Posted by willojack View Post
    flagman do me a f***ing favour remove me from this forum

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Unity View Post
    Some one from the office reads LTLF, Vital Forest and The Twitter.

    They get the players stats from FM17 and build a forest team and try to win the champions league.

    THe players they like go onto the playlist on YouTube.

    The manager is invited to playlist and identify choices.

    I perform an important role here by making the early post about upcoming transfers. It gives us a broader selection of options.

    It's not improvable imho.
    Can't be improved on? I disagree... They need to start using FM18.

    It's funny you mention it though, I was playing the new one around the time it came out and decided to get a new keeper (Birmingham City offered £500k for Henderson so he was straight out). The main stats I set for my scouts to look out for were passing, first touch and throwing, stuck with the whole play it out from the back thing. When they came back they had a shortlist of about 6 keepers, I checked it and lo and behold 3 of the 6 were Federici, Bogdan and Ronnow did make me wonder...


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Our North West scout is a guy called Jose Mourinho.

    It only takes a second to score a goal.

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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by J'Psycho'C66 View Post
    Can't be improved on? I disagree... They need to start using FM18.

    It's funny you mention it though, I was playing the new one around the time it came out and decided to get a new keeper (Birmingham City offered £500k for Henderson so he was straight out). The main stats I set for my scouts to look out for were passing, first touch and throwing, stuck with the whole play it out from the back thing. When they came back they had a shortlist of about 6 keepers, I checked it and lo and behold 3 of the 6 were Federici, Bogdan and Ronnow did make me wonder...
    There was a documentary a few years ago where the club manager, can't remember who, was sat in an office going through a list of potential signings scouted on Football Manager.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    There was a documentary a few years ago where the club manager, can't remember who, was sat in an office going through a list of potential signings scouted on Football Manager.
    The son of our previous owner was a great fan of FM and it was reported that he had made some rather astute transfer suggestions based on his FM knowledge.


  10. #9
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    There was a documentary a few years ago where the club manager, can't remember who, was sat in an office going through a list of potential signings scouted on Football Manager.
    I think Sports Interactive who make FM have a more detailed database of player stats which clubs can actually buy/ subscribe to. It's interesting because the way players stats are made up are based on scouts opinions not just plucked out of the sky so I'm not against it as an aid to transfers, just not as the main driving force behind them. They're often looking for people to go to lower league games on their forums, I don't know the ins and outs (how many times a player has to be watched for valid stats to be added etc.) so I wonder how accurate and detailed they really are but at least they make an effort to get close to how the actual players are.

    As most will have seen they now use the stats on SSN when comparing players which still seems ridiculous every time you see it, "Morata has 16 for heading while Batshuayi only has 13 but Batshuayi has 15 pace while Morata only has 12, who should start for Chelsea this weekend? Let us know on Twitter."


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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Our North West scout is a guy called Jose Mourinho.
    He’d probably do it for free too.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    — Joe Strummer

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by J'Psycho'C66 View Post
    I think Sports Interactive who make FM have a more detailed database of player stats which clubs can actually buy/ subscribe to. It's interesting because the way players stats are made up are based on scouts opinions not just plucked out of the sky so I'm not against it as an aid to transfers, just not as the main driving force behind them. They're often looking for people to go to lower league games on their forums, I don't know the ins and outs (how many times a player has to be watched for valid stats to be added etc.) so I wonder how accurate and detailed they really are but at least they make an effort to get close to how the actual players are.
    Judging from a Greek FM forum, it must be a very user-based affair. There are very silly, detailed technical discussions there of the type "I think 15 for pace is too much, I would put it at 14", which result on an official request by the forum to the company to change the figures.


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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by J'Psycho'C66 View Post
    I think Sports Interactive who make FM have a more detailed database of player stats which clubs can actually buy/ subscribe to. It's interesting because the way players stats are made up are based on scouts opinions not just plucked out of the sky so I'm not against it as an aid to transfers, just not as the main driving force behind them. They're often looking for people to go to lower league games on their forums, I don't know the ins and outs (how many times a player has to be watched for valid stats to be added etc.) so I wonder how accurate and detailed they really are but at least they make an effort to get close to how the actual players are.

    As most will have seen they now use the stats on SSN when comparing players which still seems ridiculous every time you see it, "Morata has 16 for heading while Batshuayi only has 13 but Batshuayi has 15 pace while Morata only has 12, who should start for Chelsea this weekend? Let us know on Twitter."
    I can't find the link now but I've posted it on ltlf previously about some young kid who started out as a volunteer at a non-league club, got to know the manager (because you do at that level) made some suggestions for loans from FM... The manager followed up, loans came in and helped them go up. The lad, at 17, went on to join Plymouth or Exeter or similar as an analyst.

    True story!

    Last edited by Redemption; 27-01-18 at 11:07.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Everton were the first big club to utilise the FM database a few years ago as official club strategy in scouting.

    Interesting reading at the time.

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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreeksBearingGifts View Post
    Judging from a Greek FM forum, it must be a very user-based affair. There are very silly, detailed technical discussions there of the type "I think 15 for pace is too much, I would put it at 14", which result on an official request by the forum to the company to change the figures.
    That would be then the fourth model - crowd sourced scouting.


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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    You go somewhere like a village hall, say the oath and the promise, learn to tie knots, first aid and how to make a fire. Then you go home and play with your toggle


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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?




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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Unity View Post
    I can't find the link now but I've posted it on ltlf previously about some young kid who started out as a volunteer at a non-league club, got to know the manager (because you do at that level) made some suggestions for loans from FM... The manager followed up, loans came in and helped them go up. The lad, at 17, went on to join Plymouth or Exeter or similar as an analyst.

    True story!
    Not quite as true as I recalled... but some similarity

    https://www.theguardian.com/football...lymouth-argyle

    for the purists

    I’m now an analyst at Plymouth Argyle. We’ve signed the goalkeeper Marc McCallum, who some Football Manager players will remember was an incredible prospect at Dundee United as a kid. I used to sign him all the time. When he came for a trial this summer, he walked in and it was one of the strangest moments in my life. I’ve never met him in person – I’d only ever seen his face on a computer game – but straight away I knew it was him.
    Maybe it's a career for you too?



    Last edited by Redemption; 27-01-18 at 12:49.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Can't speak for the new regime but the method used to be:

    Step 1: Fawaz asks their agent if they're any good
    Step 2: We buy them


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    We sit down with the manager, look at his targets, then sack him because Tim Cahill wasn't on the list.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Unity View Post
    I can't find the link now but I've posted it on ltlf previously about some young kid who started out as a volunteer at a non-league club, got to know the manager (because you do at that level) made some suggestions for loans from FM... The manager followed up, loans came in and helped them go up. The lad, at 17, went on to join Plymouth or Exeter or similar as an analyst.

    True story!
    People like to joke and laugh about people using Football Manager but it's a good tool. It's a good judge of players and displays the information simply.


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Tim Cahill!!

    I thought we'd finished with the pension scheme years ago. Apparently not.


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    If people are interested in scouting, I’d recommend a book by Michael Calvin called The Nowhere Men. I’ve just finished reading it and I found it very interesting.

    It’s a few years old now, but it doesn’t detract from the book. If anything, it gives it a nice additional edge, knowing how the players the scouts are looking at have got on since.

    There are also some good bits in there about Bamford and Lascelles.


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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDMANRED View Post
    You go somewhere like a village hall, say the oath and the promise, learn to tie knots, first aid and how to make a fire. Then you go home and play with your toggle


    This really made me laugh


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    The Greek press finally took notice of the fact that our head scout François Modesto spends more time in Nottingham than in Greece now, just like some of you have reported.

    This does not necessarily mean that he's leaving us for you, because scouting is a job that does not need to be based on one particular place. If he does work for you (or for you as well), I remind you that he has excellent knowledge of French football (where he has found some very good and dirt cheap talents for us), and a good eye for players elsewhere in Europe.

    Alf will not like that, but you cannot afford to overlook the European market, since the British one is so expensive. A model of one guy being in charge of British scouting and another guy being in charge of European scouting, with the manager making his pick from the suggestions of both would make sense.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Scouting: how does it work (or does it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreeksBearingGifts View Post
    The Greek press finally took notice of the fact that our head scout François Modesto spends more time in Nottingham than in Greece now, just like some of you have reported.

    This does not necessarily mean that he's leaving us for you, because scouting is a job that does not need to be based on one particular place. If he does work for you (or for you as well), I remind you that he has excellent knowledge of French football (where he has found some very good and dirt cheap talents for us), and a good eye for players elsewhere in Europe.

    Alf will not like that, but you cannot afford to overlook the European market, since the British one is so expensive. A model of one guy being in charge of British scouting and another guy being in charge of European scouting, with the manager making his pick from the suggestions of both would make sense.
    When it was said that we may re-visit Sada Thioub from Nimes in the summer and the type of player we signed now - it was clear that we will be continuing to look in the European market.

    I agree with the above set-up.


 

 

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