The Kieran Dowell appreciation thread

[congo_red]

What I mean is that Clough has the ability to beat two or three men and then with great technique, bend a curling shot from outside the area into the top corner.

About time he used that ability.

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[Statto]

I didn't think Osborn was very good on Saturday (which I saw). Can't pass any reasoned comment on his performances in the games i haven't watched. His ball retention didn't seem to be as good as his usual standards, he was often giving the ball to the opposition. Yes I know LWB isn't his natural position but he's a left sided midfielder who has played full back and a young, intelligent player who should be adaptable.

[MASE]

I didn't think Osborn was very good on Saturday (which I saw). Can't pass any reasoned comment on his performances in the games i haven't watched. His ball retention didn't seem to be as good as his usual standards, he was often giving the ball to the opposition. Yes I know LWB isn't his natural position but he's a left sided midfielder who has played full back and a young, intelligent player who should be adaptable.

A good part of his brief would have been to look after Jota, given the success he had there, I'd say he had a positive impact on the game plan.

[Ravi]

Dowell has something of an advantage at this stage though. He's been brought up around a better quality of player, playing a better quality and style of football from day one.

He hasn't been thrown in to a team of struggling and flawed 'professionals' and encouraged to play very negative, safety first football, then a switch to a different style and back again as we flip-flop between managers.

And there's a reason Dowell is at Everton and Osborn is playing for a lower end Championship club. It's stating the obvious to say that Dowell is a more talented player.

[incapable hulk]

About time he used that ability.

I feel it's a bit contradictory to say it's time Clough used that ability, but say people need to be more patient and understanding with Osborn because he's young and played a couple of different positions. Especially given Osborn is older and has played far more championship football than Clough, who himself has never played a settled position and is often a sub.

[RealRed85]

We could be patient with both of them? And support them?

Actually, I've just read that back... mental. What was I thinking?!


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[congo_red]

I feel it's a bit contradictory to say it's time Clough used that ability, but say people need to be more patient and understanding with Osborn because he's young and played a couple of different positions. Especially given Osborn is older and has played far more championship football than Clough, who himself has never played a settled position and is often a sub.

I made no reference to Osborn here. Clough, taken in isolation, has done nothing so far this season, or the majority of the end of last season. To me, he's looking like a waste of money and Dowell is a better option to provide the midfield flair at the moment.

[incapable hulk]

I made no reference to Osborn here. Clough, taken in isolation, has done nothing so far this season, or the majority of the end of last season. To me, he's looking like a waste of money and Dowell is a better option to provide the midfield flair at the moment.

Are you sure?

Yes, he makes the game look so easy.

So, a couple of bad results and expect some of our fan base to start labeling him lazy. (Whilst, two posts later criticizing Osborn for being all effort no talent..)

Seems like you did.

And I expect the relative level or criticism and praise to be tempered in line with individuals levels of experience and remuneration. Sorry if that's too complex, but the world isn't black and white.

Dowell has something of an advantage at this stage though. He's been brought up around a better quality of player, playing a better quality and style of football from day one.

He hasn't been thrown in to a team of struggling and flawed 'professionals' and encouraged to play very negative, safety first football, then a switch to a different style and back again as we flip-flop between managers.

Then these posts followed, perhaps not mentioning Osborn directly but they were all part of the same running conversation. The general point I took from it was that fans shouldn't be so quick to criticise our young players - which is quite correct. But then went in the opposite direction with Clough, a player who is only 22 years old, the same age as Jordan Smith who people seem to suggest is above any form of criticism because of his age, inexperience and because he's an academy product.

The points you made in the latter 3 posts I quoted are all fairly relevant to Clough. He was dropped into a mish mash of a squad last season, and the new season is only 4 games old and he's only played one and half games in it.

It seems hypocritical, in my opinion, to bemoan fans not giving players time whilst saying Clough looks like a waste of money and needs to start performing. All players should be judged by the same standards regardless of whether they came from our academy or not. Everyone in the squad needs time to prove themselves otherwise.

[eugenboppboppbopp]

That backheel was sexy. Shame he didn't nail that chance he had. Looks class. Pretty much a free role tho with no defensive duties. Could Clough or Benny look as good given that licence? Probably maybe. Dunno really.
I'm just a rambling man

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[marshal99]

Last season Osborn was one of our best. This season it remains to be seen, but at this early stage he's had a lot of minutes so Warboz must see something.

Dowell is class, he really is, but he'll be gone this time next year. How fondly do people look back on Aaron Ramsey, vs say David Prutton?

Osborn's 23 and already a key player, I hope to enjoy seeing his development continue and where he can take things.

osborn of the best last season , guess that explains why we were nearly relegated when we were so reliant on him , an average munchkin who is average all round.

[tropix]

osborn of the best last season , guess that explains why we were nearly relegated when we were so reliant on him , an average munchkin who is average all round.

Ok spiderman

[MASE]

osborn of the best last season , guess that explains why we were nearly relegated when we were so reliant on him , an average munchkin who is average all round.

Thats fucking shocking. Such contempt, with only a dodgy stream as your perspective.

[congo_red]

Are you sure?

I guess not. Apologies, I can't even remember what I had for Breakfast.

It seems hypocritical, in my opinion, to bemoan fans not giving players time whilst saying Clough looks like a waste of money and needs to start performing. All players should be judged by the same standards regardless of whether they came from our academy or not. Everyone in the squad needs time to prove themselves otherwise.

Fair point. I should probably go easy on Clough. I guess I find it frustrating that he doesn't look like he's putting the effort in to be the player he was at Bolton and everyone keeps saying he's a great player... Osborn you could never accuse of a lack of graft, but point taken nonetheless.

[Barry]

Thats fucking shocking. Such contempt, with only a dodgy stream as your perspective.

To be honest

osborn of the best last season , guess that explains why we were nearly relegated when we were so reliant on him

Is a fair statement.

If your best player is average we shouldnt be surprised where we ended up.

[MASE]

To be honest



Is a fair statement.

If your best player is average we shouldnt be surprised where we ended up.

Point taken but theres a few extenuating circumstances here that boil my piss.

This poster just fucking bashes every player we have & he's miles away from the action.
I don't think Bennys average.
I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for throwing himself into every position he's put.
The work he does off the ball goes totally unnoticed.
This inference that every player from the Academy gets wrapped in cotton wool is becoming an issue, with folk seemingly trying to counter it by bashing all the kids.

Bennys the sort of player we pick out of opposition sides as excellent players, yet we seem intent on ripping him apart because he plays for us.

[Barry]

Point taken but theres a few extenuating circumstances here that boil my piss.

This poster just fucking bashes every player we have & he's miles away from the action.

Im not gonna argue with that.

However when you see Dowell play i dont see how you can think anything other than Benj being average at best.

[MASE]

Im not gonna argue with that.

However when you see Dowell play i dont see how you can think anything other than Benj being average at best.

Theyre different players offering different qualities though. Each can offer a different tempo to the game.

Dowells a good looking player, we're quick to overrate players though, wouldn't mind seeing a bit more given his Shrewsbury no show.

Dowell will probably flower into one of the better players we've had here, Bennys produced some excellent stuff on & off for some time, I aint sure Dowells made Benny look average just yet.

[Rzarecteh]

To be honest



Is a fair statement.

If your best player is average we shouldnt be surprised where we ended up.

A defender finished player of the season in a defence that was second worse in the league.

Nobody was good enough to warrant an award last season so it went to the players that disappointed the least.

[Barry]

A defender finished player of the season in a defence that was second worse in the league.

Nobody was good enough to warrant an award last season so it went to the players that disappointed the least.

Thats how i see it.

[incapable hulk]

I guess not. Apologies, I can't even remember what I had for Breakfast.



Fair point. I should probably go easy on Clough. I guess I find it frustrating that he doesn't look like he's putting the effort in to be the player he was at Bolton and everyone keeps saying he's a great player... Osborn you could never accuse of a lack of graft, but point taken nonetheless.

I guess not. Apologies, I can't even remember what I had for Breakfast.

Haha, no worries mate - I am the same

Fair point. I should probably go easy on Clough. I guess I find it frustrating that he doesn't look like he's putting the effort in to be the player he was at Bolton and everyone keeps saying he's a great player... Osborn you could never accuse of a lack of graft, but point taken nonetheless.

He comes with a big price tag so it is understandable why people would expect more from him more quickly. But he is young and so far most players in the side are still struggling to find their footing.

Whenever I've seen Clough I've generally thought his problem isn't a lack of effort, but he can sometimes he can drift out of games. However that applies to all our creative players like Carayol and even Mckay. At times they look excellent, at others you forget they are playing because they can't get into the game. Like Osborn though I do think Clough has suffered from not having a nailed down position. Sometimes he's on the wing, others he's been played behind the striker, or in midfield or as a striker.

He has real talent though and Warburton wouldn't persevere with him if he wasn't working hard so I reckon once things start to come together as the season progresses we'll really see Clough make a mark

[Ravi]

I guess not. Apologies, I can't even remember what I had for Breakfast.



Fair point. I should probably go easy on Clough. I guess I find it frustrating that he doesn't look like he's putting the effort in to be the player he was at Bolton and everyone keeps saying he's a great player... Osborn you could never accuse of a lack of graft, but point taken nonetheless.

It's the age old football conundrum. Fans love a grafter and you certainly need some in your team, but it's the creative flair players who unlock defences. Except for at the very top level those players tend not to be grafters, and instead 'drift in and out of games'.

[congo_red]

Why's 'average' such a problem anyway? If a player truly is average, then that means there's as many players we could pick that would be worse as there is better...

[Cortez the Killer]

I think of Dowell as Warburton's way of buying more time. He'll never be our player but he hopefully gives us quality to enable us to compete in the short term so Warburton gets as long as possible to shape the squad to his own liking.

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[Freddie]

I think of Dowell as Warburton's way of buying more time. He'll never be our player but he hopefully gives us quality to enable us to compete in the short term so Warburton gets as long as possible to shape the squad to his own liking.

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Yeah, wouldn't be surprised if he's used to the point we are considered safe then moved to the bench for Clough and Osborn to get some experience there.

[MaxiRobriguez]

I think of Dowell as Warburton's way of buying more time. He'll never be our player but he hopefully gives us quality to enable us to compete in the short term so Warburton gets as long as possible to shape the squad to his own liking.

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Think you're probably right, but equally I wouldn't be surprised to see Clough leave this window or over January, leaving us to buy a new #10 next summer.