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Thread: Current state of the squad

      
  1. #2476
    Billy Davies long lost lovechild.
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    We're better balanced, but overall weaker currently. Thinner frontline, which was shockingly thin last season anyway, and no Colback either.

    More quality signings please.

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  3. #2477
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Think we're really going to miss Colback. Needs replacing.


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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-aSemedoBlueJeans&Chinos View Post
    Does anyone think this squad is top 6 yet?
    At this level you don't need a "top six squad" - you need a competent manager who can get the best out of his players, a bit of physicality or stamina across the team, a guy who can carry the ball 30 yards and a goalscorer. That's about it really. Leeds' and Sheff Utd squad on paper last year wasn't top six but they were much better over the course of the season than the likes of West Brom and Villa who did.

    Do we have a goalscorer? Yes, in Grabban.
    Do we have a guy that can carry the ball 30 yards? Lolley
    Do we have physicality/stamina: Probably lacking here
    Do we have a competent manager who can get the best out of his squad? Currently unknown.

    So I would say we're halfway there at worst and possibly almost there with a couple of targeted additions and squad adapting well to this 4-1-4-1 as a best case.

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  5. #2479
    Billy Davies long lost lovechild.
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    At this level you don't need a "top six squad" - you need a competent manager who can get the best out of his players, a bit of physicality or stamina across the team, a guy who can carry the ball 30 yards and a goalscorer. That's about it really. Leeds' and Sheff Utd squad on paper last year wasn't top six but they were much better over the course of the season than the likes of West Brom and Villa who did.

    Do we have a goalscorer? Yes, in Grabban.
    Do we have a guy that can carry the ball 30 yards? Lolley
    Do we have physicality/stamina: Probably lacking here
    Do we have a competent manager who can get the best out of his squad? Currently unknown.

    So I would say we're halfway there at worst and possibly almost there with a couple of targeted additions and squad adapting well to this 4-1-4-1 as a best case.
    Agreed and great point.

    But the problem we have is that, even a competent manager needs time to shape a side to get the best out of them.

    Hart knew the kids inside & out

    Davies had half a season & preseason

    SOD had half a season & half preseason (yes in an assistant capacity, but he still got to know the players)

    AK had half a season & preseason

    If Lamouchi is even better than these he still needs time to form a unit, and make the most of what he has.

    So the reason we need a top 6 squad is because we know no-one will get time to do that.



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  6. #2480
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    At this level you don't need a "top six squad" - you need a competent manager who can get the best out of his players, a bit of physicality or stamina across the team, a guy who can carry the ball 30 yards and a goalscorer. That's about it really. Leeds' and Sheff Utd squad on paper last year wasn't top six but they were much better over the course of the season than the likes of West Brom and Villa who did.

    Do we have a goalscorer? Yes, in Grabban.
    Do we have a guy that can carry the ball 30 yards? Lolley
    Do we have physicality/stamina: Probably lacking here
    Do we have a competent manager who can get the best out of his squad? Currently unknown.

    So I would say we're halfway there at worst and possibly almost there with a couple of targeted additions and squad adapting well to this 4-1-4-1 as a best case.
    What about a reliable goalkeeper?
    A right and a left wing-back who can defend, get forward and put in a decent cross?
    Centre-backs/defenders who can defend reliably against crosses and set pieces?
    Defenders, midfielders and attackers who will fight for the first ball and for the second ball?
    Players who are comfortable on the ball, able to pass quickly and intelligently and gerritforrard into the danger zones?
    A line-leader who has pace, can be relied on to convert penalties significantly more frequently than he misses, and when in a one-on-one situation with the keeper converts significantly more times than he doesn't?


  7. #2481
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    No one is going to get a season to "adapt" under Marinakis. It's folly to think so.

    But that doesn't stop a new man starting well. The core of the squad isn't bad - requires a bit of fine tuning - but we're mugs if we write ourselves out of top six because we need a few more players.

    The Championship is mostly poor quality, and it just requires consistency, confidence and tactical superiority to overcome the opposition, not necessarily 11 better individuals.

    Lamouchi will get us to the top six if we can adapt quickly to the possession game, if we don't get caught on set pieces and Grabban stays fit or we have an alternative. Most sides in this league are in a similar boat.


  8. #2482
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    What about a reliable goalkeeper?
    A right and a left wing-back who can defend, get forward and put in a decent cross?
    Centre-backs/defenders who can defend reliably against crosses and set pieces?
    Defenders, midfielders and attackers who will fight for the first ball and for the second ball?
    Players who are comfortable on the ball, able to pass quickly and intelligently and gerritforrard into the danger zones?
    A line-leader who has pace, can be relied on to convert penalties significantly more frequently than he misses, and when in a one-on-one situation with the keeper converts significantly more times than he doesn't?
    We had Pantillimon in net for the first half of last season who wasn't particularly reliable but we were knocking on top six.
    Darikwa was our right back for most of it who cannot cross.
    Centre backs/defenders who can defend is sort of a given. They don't have to be dominant, just reliable enough.
    Players comfortable on the ball is just a footballer nowadays. If you want them to be visionaries like Carvalho it's a nice to have but mostly not a necessity.
    Line-leader not necessary - same reason as Pantillimon and Darikwa, we had Grabban last year who wasn't pacey, missed pens, but scored a boat load first half of season.

    When I say need a ball carrier and a goalscorer, I'm not saying everything else doesn't matter, I'm just saying those are the two things that sets you apart from other sides.


  9. #2483
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    No one is going to get a season to "adapt" under Marinakis. It's folly to think so.

    But that doesn't stop a new man starting well. The core of the squad isn't bad - requires a bit of fine tuning - but we're mugs if we write ourselves out of top six because we need a few more players.

    The Championship is mostly poor quality, and it just requires consistency, confidence and tactical superiority to overcome the opposition, not necessarily 11 better individuals.

    Lamouchi will get us to the top six if we can adapt quickly to the possession game, if we don't get caught on set pieces and Grabban stays fit or we have an alternative. Most sides in this league are in a similar boat.
    I think that rather than poor quality the Championship is actually a league where everyone seems to adopt exactly the same strategy of:
    Borrowing young hopefuls from the Prenmiershit teams;
    Bringing in little known foreign guys from increasingly unknown places (where is Bruno Faso??);
    Having a couple of their own Academy graduates that the Premiershit clubs haven't hoovered up yet.
    There are minor variations: Cardiff, Birmingham, and Millwall go for great big thugs who will boot your touch players off the park; Brentford adopt a "moneyball recruitment ans selection policy...
    And Direby build a team around the Cry-Baby centre back.


  10. #2484
    Billy Davies long lost lovechild.
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    No one is going to get a season to "adapt" under Marinakis. It's folly to think so.

    But that doesn't stop a new man starting well. The core of the squad isn't bad - requires a bit of fine tuning - but we're mugs if we write ourselves out of top six because we need a few more players.

    The Championship is mostly poor quality, and it just requires consistency, confidence and tactical superiority to overcome the opposition, not necessarily 11 better individuals.

    Lamouchi will get us to the top six if we can adapt quickly to the possession game, if we don't get caught on set pieces and Grabban stays fit or we have an alternative. Most sides in this league are in a similar boat.
    Doesn't stop him no, does make it a mammoth task though.

    Stability or investment. The club needs one, ideally both, but without either you're relying on a miracle IMO.

    If Mouch was to take this current squad to the top 6 he'd make Billy look like McClaren.


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  11. #2485
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Sinister View Post
    I think that rather than poor quality the Championship is actually a league where everyone seems to adopt exactly the same strategy of:
    Borrowing young hopefuls from the Prenmiershit teams;
    Bringing in little known foreign guys from increasingly unknown places (where is Bruno Faso??);
    Having a couple of their own Academy graduates that the Premiershit clubs haven't hoovered up yet.
    There are minor variations: Cardiff, Birmingham, and Millwall go for great big thugs who will boot your touch players off the park; Brentford adopt a "moneyball recruitment ans selection policy...
    And Direby build a team around the Cry-Baby centre back.
    OK - Pantilimon did ok overall, but he still goes down to low shots like a flight of stairs, and despite being 11 feet tall when he puts his arms up he can't challenge for crosses.
    Up t'other end, you pass the ball to Grabban when he is stood unmarked on the the goal line with the keeper already committed and he will score a shed load.
    Ask him to use his pace and trickery to create an opening and convert from more than 6 yards out and he is not the badger.
    And as for defenders being able to defend against crosses and set pieces... well Olympiacos didn't seem to think Forest's could!
    OK - I am using negative hyperbole to make my point, but I doubt whether we have a top 6 squad at the moment.
    Time will prove me right or wrong...


  12. #2486
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    We're well used to failing and I cant see anything else tbh, but hope springs eternal.

    I think we'll start well/Ok then it'll all start to go downhill, change of manager because of unrest in the dressing room, same players embrace new manager saying "we really like the new boss and his ways/ethos, we're very excited about pushing on now"

    Tail off to 17th before and end of season revival brings us to the dizzy heights of 12th.

    Aaarm off forra booze, UUUU REDZZZZ !


  13. #2487
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    We are 5 signings short at the moment. We need 2 strikers, a good quality winger, centre mid and a right back. Maybe even a backup left back as well.


  14. #2488
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    We are 5 signings short at the moment. We need 2 strikers, a good quality winger, centre mid and a right back. Maybe even a backup left back as well.
    Think thats overkill, we've got two really decent looking options at left back, we've also got plenty of options in wide areas given theyre played quite narrow.

    If Walker sticks around, we probably need one top quality striker & a banker in the holding midfield spot. Given we need to spend big in them areas, owt left in the pot would be a bonus at RB, Im not sure we're desperate there either.


  15. #2489
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    We are 5 signings short at the moment. We need 2 strikers, a good quality winger, centre mid and a right back. Maybe even a backup left back as well.
    Can't see why we would need 3 left backs at the club, but I do agree that we are well short of having a squad capable of seriously challenging for the top six though.

    Midfield still looks shit, we are incredibly light upfront (absolutely fucked if Grabban is out for any length of time) and people are talking about playing Matty Cash at right back with about 10 days to go before the start of the season.

    Time is starting to run out and it doesn't seem like any incoming players are imminent. Starting to become rather worrying IMO.


  16. #2490
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    We are 5 signings short at the moment. We need 2 strikers, a good quality winger, centre mid and a right back. Maybe even a backup left back as well.
    Of those you'll get a striker and a centre midfielder, and perhaps a right back if Darikwa goes, but that's it.


  17. #2491
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    I'd be happy with another striker, midfielder (2 if both Yacob and Guedioura go) and a right back, provided that those 3 or 4 players are genuine quality.


  18. #2492
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    Of those you'll get a striker and a centre midfielder, and perhaps a right back if Darikwa goes, but that's it.
    Then it’s not enough Maxi to mount a challenge.


  19. #2493
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    Then itís not enough Maxi to mount a challenge.
    I donít see us signing another winger now we have Ameobi and Adomah, but Appiah (triple A side, Iím coining it now) is a good prospect and Iím looking forward to seeing those 3 rotating around Lolley.

    I donít think we need a right back with Darikwa, Cash and Richardson competing for the spot. Left back is fine as we have 2 very decent options there now in Robinson and Ribeiro.

    We definitely need a striker and a star quality CDM with a big pass in him, especially as Gueds is leaving and probably wasnít gonna give us 30-35 star quality games anyway.

    One thing I do know; we love a bit of alliteration when we have depth in a position.


  20. #2494
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by MXJ View Post
    I don’t see us signing another winger now we have Ameobi and Adomah, but Appiah (triple A side, I’m coining it now) is a good prospect and I’m looking forward to seeing those 3 rotating around Lolley.

    I don’t think we need a right back with Darikwa, Cash and Richardson competing for the spot. Left back is fine as we have 2 very decent options there now in Robinson and Ribeiro.

    We definitely need a striker and a star quality CDM with a big pass in him, especially as Gueds is leaving and probably wasn’t gonna give us 30-35 star quality games anyway.

    One thing I do know; we love a bit of alliteration when we have depth in a position.
    That's bang on, and I think we have all thos positions covered.........by very average players who wouldn't be anywhere near any other top 6 chalenging squad.

    Make-do season coming up unless Mouch's magic is magnif.


  21. #2495
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Adomah, Ameobi and Appiah?

    Itís the A-Team!

    I love it when a plan comes together!

    ĄI believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialismď

    ó Joe Strummer

  22. #2496
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by MXJ View Post
    I don’t see us signing another winger now we have Ameobi and Adomah, but Appiah (triple A side, I’m coining it now) is a good prospect and I’m looking forward to seeing those 3 rotating around Lolley.

    I don’t think we need a right back with Darikwa, Cash and Richardson competing for the spot. Left back is fine as we have 2 very decent options there now in Robinson and Ribeiro.

    We definitely need a striker and a star quality CDM with a big pass in him, especially as Gueds is leaving and probably wasn’t gonna give us 30-35 star quality games anyway.

    One thing I do know; we love a bit of alliteration when we have depth in a position.
    It’s all on Appiah and Lamouchi at the end of it all. Most players in the league are good enough for promotion if you have a class manager. Alf is going to love this but Billy davies is one of those managers who makes players better and teams better and Wilder was another one. So unless Lamouchi is extremely good then we need decent players. So that being said Ameobi and Adomah are no way prolific enough. I think last season they 8 goals and 6 assists between them. That’s not good enough so unless Appiah steps up to the plate then we are really struggling there. Also you need 3 strikers and we only currently have one and again that isn’t sufficient especially with a Grabban prone to niggles. Then we are reliant on Lolley again, so unless Lamouchi is very good there is simply not enough goals in the side.

    As for the defence, Robinson is not suited to left back in our system and if he plays then that hampers our attacking threat. I think he is a decent centre back and should be considered a centre back and get a more athletic Left Back. Cash is also not a RB and I am fed up of playing players at full back who are not full backs, that just stinks of make do.

    We obviously agree with a new CDM and Striker.

    I also think there is a chronic lack of pace in the side at the moment as well, if Lamouchi is keen for the counter attacking style.


  23. #2497
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
    Can't see why we would need 3 left backs at the club, but I do agree that we are well short of having a squad capable of seriously challenging for the top six though.

    Midfield still looks shit, we are incredibly light upfront (absolutely fucked if Grabban is out for any length of time) and people are talking about playing Matty Cash at right back with about 10 days to go before the start of the season.

    Time is starting to run out and it doesn't seem like any incoming players are imminent. Starting to become rather worrying IMO.
    Robinson isn’t an attacking full back and we need a more pacey attacking full back to back up Ribeiro.


  24. #2498
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-aSemedoBlueJeans&Chinos View Post
    That's bang on, and I think we have all thos positions covered.........by very average players who wouldn't be anywhere near any other top 6 chalenging squad.

    Make-do season coming up unless Mouch's magic is magnif.
    I donít agree with you on the whole. I think there are some gaps but Iíd like to see any top 6 team with a squad that would walk into any other team.

    Muric - Juryís out as heís unproven but I imagine any top 6 team would want him if they wanted to change keeper
    Robinson - thought he was as good as any other left back in the league last season, carried us very often last season
    Milo - top 6 CB no doubt
    Fig - not too 6 but definitely top half champ
    Darikwa - mid table to top half
    Watson - mid table average
    Lolley - top 2 player
    Silva - unproven.
    Carvalho - top 6 player
    Adomah - literally from the top 6 last season
    Grabban - top 6 player

    Iíd like to think thatís a balanced and objective view of the team. We have the component parts to do well here.


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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmersonForest4 View Post
    It’s all on Appiah and Lamouchi at the end of it all. Most players in the league are good enough for promotion if you have a class manager. Alf is going to love this but Billy davies is one of those managers who makes players better and teams better and Wilder was another one. So unless Lamouchi is extremely good then we need decent players. So that being said Ameobi and Adomah are no way prolific enough. I think last season they 8 goals and 6 assists between them. That’s not good enough so unless Appiah steps up to the plate then we are really struggling there. Also you need 3 strikers and we only currently have one and again that isn’t sufficient especially with a Grabban prone to niggles. Then we are reliant on Lolley again, so unless Lamouchi is very good there is simply not enough goals in the side.

    As for the defence, Robinson is not suited to left back in our system and if he plays then that hampers our attacking threat. I think he is a decent centre back and should be considered a centre back and get a more athletic Left Back. Cash is also not a RB and I am fed up of playing players at full back who are not full backs, that just stinks of make do.

    We obviously agree with a new CDM and Striker.

    I also think there is a chronic lack of pace in the side at the moment as well, if Lamouchi is keen for the counter attacking style.
    Unsure if you went to the palace game, but it should have soothed some of your fears for the upcoming season.

    Robinson & Cash both played well at full back, both assumed forward positions, both put in some decent delivery. As for the right side, Adomah brings balance, he's a bona fide right sided player & he takes the heat of Lolley.

    As for lamouchi, theres no guarantees, but the MO looks pretty clear with him. Organisation, hard work & some element of surprise. Football will be decent to watch, we cant go far wrong.


  26. #2500
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    Default Re: Current state of the squad

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Unsure if you went to the palace game, but it should have soothed some of your fears for the upcoming season.

    Robinson & Cash both played well at full back, both assumed forward positions, both put in some decent delivery. As for the right side, Adomah brings balance, he's a bona fide right sided player & he takes the heat of Lolley.

    As for lamouchi, theres no guarantees, but the MO looks pretty clear with him. Organisation, hard work & some element of surprise. Football will be decent to watch, we cant go far wrong.
    Cash wasnt tested defensively though, he looked good going forward but thr jurys still out on his defensive competency.

    Also pre season means nothing, weve had players look brilliant in pre season (Dias and Goncalves) and they turn into dross onve the season kicks off properly. At the moment we're in no worse of a situation than last season squad wise but we could be in a better position if the new lads continue to play well and Carvalho isnt out too long.


 

 

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