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Thread: The relegation run-in

      
  1. #676
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    Whenever Andy Reid was on the field, even if we were losing I thought, there's a man that can rally the players to push forward and give it their all.
    I don't see anybody in our squad capable of doing that apart from maybe Lichaj, because I don't see Cohen as the demanding type ordering players and motivating them.
    Lichaj and Cohen show different leadership qualities but they're not natural leaders by any stretch of the imagination.

    Lichaj shows the odd moment where something sparks in him and he decides to the take the bull by the horns because nobody else is, but it seems to happen when he's pissed off in a game.

    Cohen leads by example on the pitch simply through his effort and desire to run his heart out for 90 minutes.


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  3. #677

    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangerz View Post
    We've lacked a midfield general since McKenna left to be honest
    Folk forget Reid shirked it under McClaren

    Davies got the squad enough leadership inspiring Reid, Cohen & Hobbs. Pearce continued that. Both felt the impact when they got injured and what was our retarded solution? sack the men who got the best out of our key players.

    Mackie, Lichaj, McKenna etc. - there's a reason why Davies bought players with such character here, and why on earth folk were unhappy with that I've no idea.

    “All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.”

  4. #678
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    That would be fucking suicide.

    I'm a Warburton fan, this man will take us forward, but this a collective Swaggers. He's changed the playing style & he's attempting to drill the players with something that clearly doesnt come naturally.

    Brave move, it will come off, but you can't make a move like that & take a swing at the players if it don't come off straight away.
    Some players respond to an arm round the shoulder while others need an arse kicking.

    We appear to have tried the arm around the shoulders approach with little success, perhaps now it's time for the kick up the arse.

    It's easy to say "what if they don't respond", or "that's not how to speak to people in the 21st century" but this is what a lot of the players will be expecting from their manager.

    It's competitive sport, not an office job. You use all the tools at your disposal not just the ones that are allowed by committee.

    It's not about bollocking players for the sake of it but to get a positive reaction when the other methods aren't working.


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  5. #679
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Who are these shirkers? Smith? Lichaj? Worrall? Pinillos? Osborn? Cohen? Vaughan? Ward? Brereton?

    I don't think any of our players are remotely taking the piss, I don't think there is even a hint of a lack of effort, it just seems to be the default criticism when results go against us.


  6. #680
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post
    Folk forget Reid shirked it under McClaren

    Davies got the squad enough leadership inspiring Reid, Cohen & Hobbs. Pearce continued that. Both felt the impact when they got injured and what was our retarded solution? sack the men who got the best out of our key players.

    Mackie, Lichaj, McKenna etc. - there's a reason why Davies bought players with such character here, and why on earth folk were unhappy with that I've no idea.
    As a wise man once said, "we have no fuckjin g wot karate without Mackie in the side"




  7. #681
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangerz View Post
    As a wise man once said, "we have no fuckjin g wot karate without Mackie in the side"

    Not sure headbutting your own player during a game and leading an obvious revolt against foreign players on the pitch is leadership. Something he was accused of at QPR first time around also.

    Fucking hated that man.


  8. #682
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
    Who are these shirkers? Smith? Lichaj? Worrall? Pinillos? Osborn? Cohen? Vaughan? Ward? Brereton?

    I don't think any of our players are remotely taking the piss, I don't think there is even a hint of a lack of effort, it just seems to be the default criticism when results go against us.
    I don't think the players are shirking it, I think they're just not good enough. This narrative of "the players need to show some fight" is a bit of a myth IMO - I just don't think they've got the quality to pull it off, fight or otherwise.


  9. #683
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by Swagman View Post
    Some players respond to an arm round the shoulder while others need an arse kicking.

    We appear to have tried the arm around the shoulders approach with little success, perhaps now it's time for the kick up the arse.

    It's easy to say "what if they don't respond", or "that's not how to speak to people in the 21st century" but this is what a lot of the players will be expecting from their manager.

    It's competitive sport, not an office job. You use all the tools at your disposal not just the ones that are allowed by committee.

    It's not about bollocking players for the sake of it but to get a positive reaction when the other methods aren't working.


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    You've asked for us to stop with the passing & take points from games. Now your asking for Warburton to dig players out in public.

    You might as well go the whole way & ask for a new manager mate, because the one we have doesn't do it that way.

    Warburton has a style & an approach that he won't compromise, we have to back him, given he's got a fucking impressive hit rate with it.


  10. #684
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
    Who are these shirkers? Smith? Lichaj? Worrall? Pinillos? Osborn? Cohen? Vaughan? Ward? Brereton?

    I don't think any of our players are remotely taking the piss, I don't think there is even a hint of a lack of effort, it just seems to be the default criticism when results go against us.
    I'm not suggesting that they are shirking from their duties but something is missing.

    On paper we have a far better group of players than half the teams in the league but either the successive management teams can't get it out of them or the players can't produce closer to 100% than they do now.

    Several managers have struggled therefore one must think it's the players who are at fault.

    Size 12 boot up the arse should do it


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  11. #685
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    You've asked for us to stop with the passing & take points from games. Now your asking for Warburton to dig players out in public.

    You might as well go the whole way & ask for a new manager mate, because the one we have doesn't do it that way.

    Warburton has a style & an approach that he won't compromise, we have to back him, given he's got a fucking impressive hit rate with it.
    I've never asked to stop with the passing game anywhere.

    All I've said is there are more than one way to skin a cat.

    We've done praising the squad to little effect so perhaps we should try something new.

    I'd hope MW would have more up his sleeve than some on here who think things can only be done one way so as not to upset the players.

    They're being paid a bloody fortune, they should expect to hear some criticism for that.

    Certainly our greatest manager wasn't slow at dishing it out.

    What's changed now?


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  12. #686
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by Swagman View Post
    I'm not suggesting that they are shirking from their duties but something is missing.

    On paper we have a far better group of players than half the teams in the league but either the successive management teams can't get it out of them or the players can't produce closer to 100% than they do now.

    Several managers have struggled therefore one must think it's the players who are at fault.

    Size 12 boot up the arse should do it


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I'd dispute that we have a far better group of players than half the teams in this league. What are you basing that on?

    "Outside the family life, there is nothing better than winning the European Cups." Brian Clough

  13. #687
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    All the shit that everyone else posts on here.

    Hear it enough times and you start to believe it yourself


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  14. #688
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy22 View Post
    Lichaj and Cohen show different leadership qualities but they're not natural leaders by any stretch of the imagination.

    Lichaj shows the odd moment where something sparks in him and he decides to the take the bull by the horns because nobody else is, but it seems to happen when he's pissed off in a game.

    Cohen leads by example on the pitch simply through his effort and desire to run his heart out for 90 minutes.
    Yeah that's what I mean, only Lichaj gives a shout and a motivational bollocking to the teammates. As you say though it only tends to happen when he's either pissed off or we're losing so by then it's almost too little too late.
    Kind of thought Lansbury was that type of character, he certainly made the difference in some games, but then others he'd be anonymous.


  15. #689
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Only Reid had been there, done that in the Premier League and in internationals. He was the player his teammates looked up to on the pitch. That is what we lack now someone who has actually achieved more than his fellow players who realise what he has put in to achieve that.

    All it needs is one exceptional character to bring out the best in everyone around them.

    Trudy had it in spades.


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  16. #690
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Trudy?

    Fucking auto-correct


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  17. #691

    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by Swagman View Post
    Only Reid had been there, done that in the Premier League and in internationals. He was the player his teammates looked up to on the pitch. That is what we lack now someone who has actually achieved more than his fellow players who realise what he has put in to achieve that.

    All it needs is one exceptional character to bring out the best in everyone around them.

    Trudy had it in spades.


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    billy-davies-001.jpg


  18. #692
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by Swagman View Post
    Some players respond to an arm round the shoulder while others need an arse kicking.

    We appear to have tried the arm around the shoulders approach with little success, perhaps now it's time for the kick up the arse.

    It's easy to say "what if they don't respond", or "that's not how to speak to people in the 21st century" but this is what a lot of the players will be expecting from their manager.

    It's competitive sport, not an office job. You use all the tools at your disposal not just the ones that are allowed by committee.

    It's not about bollocking players for the sake of it but to get a positive reaction when the other methods aren't working.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Don't disagree, but digging players out in public aint the way to get the best out of him.

    Much like the rest of our business over the last five years, some things are better of done in house.


  19. #693
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
    Who are these shirkers? Smith? Lichaj? Worrall? Pinillos? Osborn? Cohen? Vaughan? Ward? Brereton?

    I don't think any of our players are remotely taking the piss, I don't think there is even a hint of a lack of effort, it just seems to be the default criticism when results go against us.
    Agree mate.

    The quality just isn't there and we have a very unbalanced squad. In key areas we are below par.

    I would still take our squad over our relegation rivals though.


  20. #694
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in




  21. #695

    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Gunn View Post


    Good times.

    Lifes so wank now. But what do I know? I'm clearly just a Billy bummer, and seeing the club beat the league leaders away to go 5th is obviously just a random infactuation with a man, and fuck all to do with the fact I actually like seeing the team I support play well, win & do well.


  22. #696
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    I think we lack direction on the pitch more than from the gaffer and it runs through the spine of the team.

    Smith's pretty quiet - commands his area OK but communication with the defence is limited. Worral, Mancienne and Fox are all quiet, neither one of them takes responsibility for the defensive line, or barking orders. Cohen and Vaughan are pretty quiet.

    Compare it to having Camp and McKenna, who organised defense and midfield respectively.

    We lack bite and we lack leadership on the pitch. We have quality in some areas but we're not as units nor as an eleven. It's partly down to chopping and changing and not having any long term strategy but also because new managers coming in have little time to assess the squad so plug the obvious positional holes and then realise too late we're short of bollocks. Rinse and repeat.

    Nothing Warburton can do. Hair dryer treatment aint gonna work on Benny, or Pinillos etc, we just have to hope the players find it in themselves to get four points from three and then we have the chance to sort it out in summer.

    Proud father of the :whoosh:

  23. #697
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    If Blackburn and ourselves both win tomorrow Birmingham will be in the bottom three. They don't play until Sunday.

    If I was a betting man, I'd go for Forest and Blackburn draw, Burton lose. Burton could still be the team to drop.


  24. #698

    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieLePop View Post
    I think we lack direction on the pitch more than from the gaffer and it runs through the spine of the team.

    Smith's pretty quiet - commands his area OK but communication with the defence is limited. Worral, Mancienne and Fox are all quiet, neither one of them takes responsibility for the defensive line, or barking orders. Cohen and Vaughan are pretty quiet.

    Compare it to having Camp and McKenna, who organised defense and midfield respectively.

    We lack bite and we lack leadership on the pitch. We have quality in some areas but we're not as units nor as an eleven. It's partly down to chopping and changing and not having any long term strategy but also because new managers coming in have little time to assess the squad so plug the obvious positional holes and then realise too late we're short of bollocks. Rinse and repeat.

    Nothing Warburton can do. Hair dryer treatment aint gonna work on Benny, or Pinillos etc, we just have to hope the players find it in themselves to get four points from three and then we have the chance to sort it out in summer.
    I forgot all about "not good enough, get rid he's got an 'attitude'" Camp.

    Another player with a set of bollocks who'd 'arrogance' helped us out, but who our more precious fans again decided didn't fit into their vision of a fairy dancing utopian homo team

    Last edited by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery; 21-04-17 at 17:18.

  25. #699
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by MASE View Post
    Don't disagree, but digging players out in public aint the way to get the best out of him.
    Worked for Billy Davies with Lewis McGugan.

    Pretty much the only manager who's been able to get any consistency out of Lewis, along with other players who haven't reproduced form anywhere near what they did under Billy.

    A lot of players need tough love. I know if someone gives me a bollocking, I always think 'I'll fucking show you' and I'd hope most of my teammates would respond in the same way.

    I don't really respond to an arm round the shoulder. Does nothing for me. Just makes me think 'What are you after?'


  26. #700
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    Default Re: The relegation run-in

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy22 View Post
    Worked for Billy Davies with Lewis McGugan.

    Pretty much the only manager who's been able to get any consistency out of Lewis, along with other players who haven't reproduced form anywhere near what they did under Billy.

    A lot of players need tough love. I know if someone gives me a bollocking, I always think 'I'll fucking show you' and I'd hope most of my teammates would respond in the same way.

    I don't really respond to an arm round the shoulder. Does nothing for me. Just makes me think 'What are you after?'
    and that probably sums up why Brian Clough was the best man manager/motivator of his time with his no rule fits all philosophy


 

 

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