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Thread: Forest Injuries

      
  1. #1
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    Default Forest Injuries

    As someone with quite a bit of spare time I quite often look at the teams that Championship sides are playing game after game. If you take Forest for example there are normally four, five, six or even more players out injuried at any one thing me. If you look at the other sides they are predominately able to play the same team each game with the odd exception. When we get injuries the players are out for quite some time whereas when I speak to friends who support other teams they say we have lost so and so for two or three weeks. As I say there are some exceptions but generally speaking they are able to field just about the same team. IF we were able to field the same eleven in every match we wouldn't be where we are now.
    This isn't just this season but it has gone on for lots of seasons. I don't blame the physiotherapists or anyone else at the club as they all sound to excellent in their jobs or even the training regime or the playing surface as we get as many of njuries playing hard me or away. Take the Centre Halves we don't lose one or two we go for three.
    Just saying


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye1947 View Post
    As someone with quite a bit of spare time I quite often look at the teams that Championship sides are playing game after game. If you take Forest for example there are normally four, five, six or even more players out injuried at any one thing me. If you look at the other sides they are predominately able to play the same team each game with the odd exception. When we get injuries the players are out for quite some time whereas when I speak to friends who support other teams they say we have lost so and so for two or three weeks. As I say there are some exceptions but generally speaking they are able to field just about the same team. IF we were able to field the same eleven in every match we wouldn't be where we are now.
    This isn't just this season but it has gone on for lots of seasons. I don't blame the physiotherapists or anyone else at the club as they all sound to excellent in their jobs or even the training regime or the playing surface as we get as many of njuries playing hard me or away. Take the Centre Halves we don't lose one or two we go for three.
    Just saying
    I remain convinced that the surface at the academy is too hard and have said so for a few years. It must increase long term stress on joints so making them more vulnerable to failure.
    It feels a cracking surface to play on once a week but too firm for everyday use.
    A.Layman.


  4. #3

    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Consistancy is a big problem too IMO. Whenever a new manager comes in players will play & train harder to try and impress, and often hide away niggles and knocks they have. We change managers every 5 minutes, and I've absolutely no doubt what so ever that this has caused some players to play through injuries and thus not heal fully.

    And how ironic that Billy Davies' training methods were deemed to be the issue, and yet removing him has left us with just as many injuries, but far fewer actually phsyically fit players able to pressure the opposition for a full 90 min

    “All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.”

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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    I think this issue has been dealt with on a number of threads on here. We buy decent players who are injury prone because that's all we can afford. Therefore it's no surprise that they break down on a regular basis. We need to focus on buying younger, fitter and cheaper players. It may be more of a gamble than buying established players, but it will prove to be more cost effective in the longer term.


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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Red bandit View Post
    I think this issue has been dealt with on a number of threads on here. We buy decent players who are injury prone because that's all we can afford. Therefore it's no surprise that they break down on a regular basis. We need to focus on buying younger, fitter and cheaper players. It may be more of a gamble than buying established players, but it will prove to be more cost effective in the longer term.
    I agree with the principle but even when we have they get injured. Cohen and Assombalonga are prime examples of buying good young talent who are not injury prone but they have been injured.


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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Why is it that every manager seems to continue overlooking that our defence is terrible, they would even struggle in League 1, and are always injured. WE NEED TO CLEAR MOST OF THIS RUBBISH OUT OF FOREST.
    I know people keep saying, 'Mancienne is a good player' ' Hobbs / Mills is good when fit' - for me we should do everything we can to get rid of the majority of our defence in the summer.
    Keep Lichaj, Pinillos and Worrall. The rest need to go, for me, the defense is the only thing holding Forest back from being serious playoff contenders, and these people have been sat there just collecting a wage for far too long!


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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    That's what you get when you adopt a continual new manager merrygoround - more & more players on the payroll that we can't get rid of & blocking the pathway both for new signings & promising kids coming through.
    And on that note I'm off down the CG to see which 'squad' players will feature today - Texeira? Ariyibi? Cohen? Pereira? Perquis? Mills? etc etc

    Last edited by RedRobbo; 20-02-17 at 11:58.

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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery View Post
    Consistancy is a big problem too IMO. Whenever a new manager comes in players will play & train harder to try and impress, and often hide away niggles and knocks they have. We change managers every 5 minutes, and I've absolutely no doubt what so ever that this has caused some players to play through injuries and thus not heal fully.

    And how ironic that Billy Davies' training methods were deemed to be the issue, and yet removing him has left us with just as many injuries, but far fewer actually phsyically fit players able to pressure the opposition for a full 90 min
    davies knew the effects of his training methods and with the squad he put together, he could push them but the second time he came he wasn't working with the type of players that worked well with his methods/biscuits. the plus side at the moment is we have academy graduates coming through the ranks so injury should be a lesser occurance


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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry1982 View Post
    davies knew the effects of his training methods and with the squad he put together, he could push them but the second time he came he wasn't working with the type of players that worked well with his methods/biscuits. the plus side at the moment is we have academy graduates coming through the ranks so injury should be a lesser occurance
    I guess his selection would be simplified - he'd ignore the kids for a start...


  11. #10

    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry1982 View Post
    davies knew the effects of his training methods and with the squad he put together, he could push them but the second time he came he wasn't working with the type of players that worked well with his methods/biscuits. the plus side at the moment is we have academy graduates coming through the ranks so injury should be a lesser occurance

    Agreed. It's just another funny myth amongst the thousands. Some posters absolutely convinced themselves his training methods were to blame for injuries. Yet here we are, same plethora of injuries, but now we've a far less competitive/fit side overall.

    Ah, que sera. Every passing game is a reminder of how far we've progressed

    Last edited by Alf-ugginblowupyourbakery; 20-02-17 at 12:42.

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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Mancienne is a great defensive midfielder and really provides steel in that area. When his is missing from there out midfield looks a lot weaker.

    Hobbs and Mills are competent centre backs, good in the air, good tackling and our defence is very strong when they play, they are also good leaders.
    Lichaj and Pinillos are first choice fullbacks and when they are out they are missed as we do not have the quality to replace them.

    That leaves

    Traore - very injury prone and just never fit enough to play.
    Fox - versatile and good to have around as backup, not first choice though.
    Pereira - Good player and exciting to watch but attitude and fitness questionable and more a winger than a full-back.
    Perquis - started good but disappeared.
    Lam - One for the future but needs to improve strength
    Cash - Not a defender but being asked to play there, not a defender...
    Lacovitti - One for the future.. maybe..
    Worral - Good player and will eventually be first choice I think.


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveRedDog View Post
    Mancienne is a great defensive midfielder and really provides steel in that area. When his is missing from there out midfield looks a lot weaker.

    Hobbs and Mills are competent centre backs, good in the air, good tackling and our defence is very strong when they play, they are also good leaders.
    Lichaj and Pinillos are first choice fullbacks and when they are out they are missed as we do not have the quality to replace them.

    That leaves

    Traore - very injury prone and just never fit enough to play.
    Fox - versatile and good to have around as backup, not first choice though.
    Pereira - Good player and exciting to watch but attitude and fitness questionable and more a winger than a full-back.
    Perquis - started good but disappeared.
    Lam - One for the future but needs to improve strength
    Cash - Not a defender but being asked to play there, not a defender...
    Lacovitti - One for the future.. maybe..
    Worral - Good player and will eventually be first choice I think.


    Sorry, but a 'very strong defence' wouldn't concede the amount of goals we have this season, and they wouldn't be sat where we are in the league.


  14. #13
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Red bandit View Post
    I think this issue has been dealt with on a number of threads on here. We buy decent players who are injury prone because that's all we can afford. Therefore it's no surprise that they break down on a regular basis. We need to focus on buying younger, fitter and cheaper players. It may be more of a gamble than buying established players, but it will prove to be more cost effective in the longer term.

    When I started this thread I wanted us to solely talk about the amount of injuries we have had recently. When you look back in history you just have to look at Steve Stone who had so many bad injuries but came back and played for England.
    Out of the current players I agree with you about Hobbs, Troure and possibly Cohen. When you look at Mills, Manciene, Pinolios, Vaughan, Britt and our friend Fryatt they had very few injuries before they came to Forest. The point I was trying to make was if we had a lot less injuries we would have a more settled side and hopefully more points.


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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Our defence is just too unpredictable. I'd say the majority of teams in this league could name their back 4 for Saturday, where as I genuinely couldn't. That's not down to player ability, it's due to injuries, we seem to pick up little injuries here and there at the most random times. It's strange.


  16. #15
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye1947 View Post
    When I started this thread I wanted us to solely talk about the amount of injuries we have had recently. When you look back in history you just have to look at Steve Stone who had so many bad injuries but came back and played for England.
    Out of the current players I agree with you about Hobbs, Troure and possibly Cohen. When you look at Mills, Manciene, Pinolios, Vaughan, Britt and our friend Fryatt they had very few injuries before they came to Forest. The point I was trying to make was if we had a lot less injuries we would have a more settled side and hopefully more points.
    Are you taking the piss?

    Pinolios had already done an ACL, Fryatt already had Achilles problems, Vaughan had a career wrecked by injuries and came here to rebuild his career..... MM had patella issues. I dont really know much about Mills and Britt was still really a kid....

    You couldn't have picked worse examples.


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    Our defence is just too unpredictable. I'd say the majority of teams in this league could name their back 4 for Saturday, where as I genuinely couldn't. That's not down to player ability, it's due to injuries, we seem to pick up little injuries here and there at the most random times. It's strange.
    Yes I agree completely, but I also think blaming the training pitch, or anything like that seems like a bit of a diversion to me. The ability of our defenders doesn't really matter to me at this point, Id still get rid of the majority of them.
    Ive seen too many seasons at Forest with this same group of players picking up injuries - the same Mills, Hobbs, Mancienne, Pinillos, Fox never being able to have a consistent run of games together.

    Its the same old story for Forest - 'we'll be better once *insert injury prone players* can get fit'

    We cant keep relying on them. Get rid, start fresh.


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Are you taking the piss?

    Pinolios had already done an ACL, Fryatt already had Achilles problems, Vaughan had a career wrecked by injuries and came here to rebuild his career..... MM had patella issues. I dont really know much about Mills and Britt was still really a kid....

    You couldn't have picked worse examples.

    Thanks Barry and no I wasn't taking the proverbial probably not good examples on my part.
    Can I use it as a 70 year old senior moment?


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye1947 View Post
    Thanks Barry and no I wasn't taking the proverbial probably not good examples on my part.
    Can I use it as a 70 year old senior moment?
    If your 70.. yes, if your 35...no.

    You did make me read your post 3 times though to make sure id read it right.


  20. #19
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Just out of interest, does anyone know the last time we fielded an unchanged side?


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye1947 View Post
    As someone with quite a bit of spare time I quite often look at the teams that Championship sides are playing game after game. If you take Forest for example there are normally four, five, six or even more players out injuried at any one thing me. If you look at the other sides they are predominately able to play the same team each game with the odd exception. When we get injuries the players are out for quite some time whereas when I speak to friends who support other teams they say we have lost so and so for two or three weeks. As I say there are some exceptions but generally speaking they are able to field just about the same team. IF we were able to field the same eleven in every match we wouldn't be where we are now.
    This isn't just this season but it has gone on for lots of seasons. I don't blame the physiotherapists or anyone else at the club as they all sound to excellent in their jobs or even the training regime or the playing surface as we get as many of njuries playing hard me or away. Take the Centre Halves we don't lose one or two we go for three.
    Just saying
    Not a dig Hawkeye, but you're using anecdotal evidence from a few mates who support other teams to justify our supposed poor injury record in comparison to other teams. I honestly don't think that we are getting anymore injuries than other teams overall, but we are suffering from injuries to key players on a regular basis due to too many of them being biscuits when we signed them in the first place.

    Using Steve Stone as an example, a player who broke his leg three times in comparison to Chris Cohen who has now done his ACL three times too, seems like a fair comparison but the are two massively different injuries. Bone will heal and be solid once again and as long as there is no direct impact on the exact spot again, a playershould be able to reach full fitness again. ACL's are different, requiring far moe rehabilitation and game management thereafter. The sheer physical forces put through the knees mean that having suffered one injury, you are always far more likely to break down again. Stone' injuries were just unlucky, he was a combative type of player, but knee injuries will continue to affect players regardless of how they are managed.

    The game is far more explosive now than at the turn of the century, requiring far greater levels of fitness than seen before, requiring the level of fitness to be far greater. The fitter a player is, the closer they will be to the threshold where injuries will occur, purely because their bodies are so finely tuned now.

    As Barry has pointed out, our other major problem is we buy tainted goods. Players who have a high level of talent but are already injury prone. It's a gamble which can work in our favour, or not as has happened recently.

    Forest as a team are no more cursed than any other team. Plenty have lost key players for the season around us, however, not as many teams carry as many biscuits as Forest have gambled on in the first place.


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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainBlack View Post
    Just out of interest, does anyone know the last time we fielded an unchanged side?
    1865?


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by Swagman View Post
    Not a dig Hawkeye, but you're using anecdotal evidence from a few mates who support other teams to justify our supposed poor injury record in comparison to other teams. I honestly don't think that we are getting anymore injuries than other teams overall, but we are suffering from injuries to key players on a regular basis due to too many of them being biscuits when we signed them in the first place.

    Using Steve Stone as an example, a player who broke his leg three times in comparison to Chris Cohen who has now done his ACL three times too, seems like a fair comparison but the are two massively different injuries. Bone will heal and be solid once again and as long as there is no direct impact on the exact spot again, a playershould be able to reach full fitness again. ACL's are different, requiring far moe rehabilitation and game management thereafter. The sheer physical forces put through the knees mean that having suffered one injury, you are always far more likely to break down again. Stone' injuries were just unlucky, he was a combative type of player, but knee injuries will continue to affect players regardless of how they are managed.

    The game is far more explosive now than at the turn of the century, requiring far greater levels of fitness than seen before, requiring the level of fitness to be far greater. The fitter a player is, the closer they will be to the threshold where injuries will occur, purely because their bodies are so finely tuned now.

    As Barry has pointed out, our other major problem is we buy tainted goods. Players who have a high level of talent but are already injury prone. It's a gamble which can work in our favour, or not as has happened recently.

    Forest as a team are no more cursed than any other team. Plenty have lost key players for the season around us, however, not as many teams carry as many biscuits as Forest have gambled on in the first place.
    I remember when I heard that Steve Stone had broken a third leg, I realised why he was so quick around the pitch.


  24. #23
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    A couple more injuries in the U23's. Luckily one of them was only Dumitru...


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    I have believed for years that injury is suited to the beholder.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Forest Injuries

    Other teams have injuries, and indeed injury crises. However I'm willing to bet no other team has so many key players consistently out for such lengths of time.

    Britt out for a year, but Danny Fox is always avaliable...


 

 

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