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Thread: Our Defence

      
  1. #1
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    Default Our Defence

    Is a slight concern to me. We need a strong base.

    Lichaj has been off his best. Pinillos getting into the groove of a new football league. Right now we have no choice to who are our best full-backs because they are & only Cohen (when/if fit can compete with Pinillos). Fox poor. Riera not even our best u21 centre-back in my mind so don't really count him as right-back so Mancienne probably covers both full-back positions for now.

    Centre-backs

    Mills - Been the standout. Hasn't hoofed as much as I've seen him do. Given the armband and managers confidence & can score at the other end! But does he go back to his Bolton ways & the reasons behind moving through so many clubs ?

    Mancienne - We all believe he is our best centre-back. But when last did he play there ? Could be a good partnership with Mills. Does his physical attributes & lack of competitiveness in contact outweigh his qualities in reading the game and trying to pass it out ?

    Wilson - Seems to be Freedman's preferred partner for Mills. Lacks intensity at times & statistically our worst centre-back 2014/15. Is his criticism harsh or not ?

    Hobbs - Been disappointing since he came back from injury & it has been more than just a couple of games. Physically he seems to be struggling with the demands. Getting turned easily and losing out aerially. Just slow. Hoofing a bit too.


    Riera (20) seems to be getting first pick from the 21s but I don't see the reason why ? Worrall (18) outshone him last season and again from what I have seen of Worrall this season he competes physically and absolute last resort looks to put his foot through it. Tries to keep the ball on the ground & very good in the air. Iacovitti (18) loves the battle and easy to see why they like him because he gallops out of defence for such a big frame and left-footed defenders are rare & hence been involved in match day squads.

    Do we have enough this season to lay the platform for our attackers to score the goals ?

    Last edited by BryanRoy; 04-09-15 at 22:41.

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Can understand your concern, however I believe we have fantastic quality. The Manager was slow to replace Fox at left back, majority of fans were saying he was not up to it, however DF continued to play him until he finally realised what most fans could see and he turned to Mance, finally we looked better and had a touch of steel, okay he tinkered again but the new left back has a left foot and is/will get better (he has great pace).
    The real problem is the set up by Douglas, we are far too cramped and it's causing confusion, stop thus obsession with one/two holding midfielders and we will be absolutely fine at the back. I really believe we could and should have even played 3 at the back given the quality we have. My view only of course and Hobbs does need to up his fitness as it shows but a quality player too good to warm a bench and if he gets fitness levels up could easily slot into a prem team.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Whilst scoring goals has been a major issue to date, I don't really see the defence as a problem. Early days but we've only conceded an average of a goal a game so far in the league. Pinilios is still an unknown quantity but with the wealth of riches at CB, and Mancienne's ability to do a sterling job anywhere along the back four, I see the defence as being stronger this season than for a while.

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  5. #4
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Thanks guys.

    Just feel if you look at Brighton and how poor our full-backs and Hobbs were. Same with Walsall. Look at v Charlton when they had two clear-cut chances due to sleepy defending and should have walked away with 3 points. We need a steeliness and consistency to our defence especially when trying to form a good pattern to our attack like V Charlton.

    Can we count on the above. I guess we have no choice but I think this could be our let down.


  6. #5
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Whilst scoring goals has been a major issue to date, I don't really see the defence as a problem. Early days but we've only conceded an average of a goal a game so far in the league. Pinilios is still an unknown quantity but with the wealth of riches at CB, and Mancienne's ability to do a sterling job anywhere along the back four, I see the defence as being stronger this season than for a while.

    We've only conceded on average a goal a game, still too much, the obsession with a holding midfielder or two is the cause in my opinion and leads to errors and invites the pressure. Mance is not a holding midfielder but can play anywhere along the back four from what I've seen.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanRoy View Post
    Thanks guys.

    Just feel if you look at Brighton and how poor our full-backs and Hobbs were. Same with Walsall. Look at v Charlton when they had two clear-cut chances due to sleepy defending and should have walked away with 3 points. We need a steeliness and consistency to our defence especially when trying to form a good pattern to our attack like V Charlton.

    Can we count on the above. I guess we have no choice but I think this could be our let down.


    Let's agree to not have a holding midfielder and it will change, even look at 3 at the back with wing backs and take the game to the opposition for a change. I really believe we have the quality and Mills, Hobbs, Wilson, Mance would get in any team in this league. The set up is not right. Again just an opinion.


  8. #7
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    I think by addressing our attacking weakness - which Dougie has recently done - it should take the pressure off our defence to begin with. I think we might be okay.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    I think the steeliness will increase as the players become more familiar with one another, although as I said, I don't see that as our main weakness so far. The stat that leaps out at me is we've had the joint most shots in the penalty area and the second most shots overall, yet have only scored 4 goals. If the new signings help us to be more clinical infront of goal, or even create more chances per game, it will have a big impact on our ability to pick up points.

    Last edited by Ravi; 04-09-15 at 23:44.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    I was alarmed by our defence v Cardiff - OK, by Hobbs who was OK at times but overall a liability. Nothing like the Hobbs I've seen before.

    Lichaj seems to have been at fault in earlier games. If he's settled down and Pinillos can cope, we might be OK. CB seems the problem - Mills looks OK, but who partners him? I'd play Mills and Mancienne, and on the evidence of the pre season friendly v Villa I'd have Wilson as first reserve.


  11. #10
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    I think the steeliness will increase as the players become more familiar with one another, although as I said, I don't see that as our main weakness so far. The stat that leaps out at me is we've had the joint most shots in the penalty area and the second most shots overall, yet have only scored 4 goals. If the new signings help us to be more clinical infront of goal, or even create more chances per game, it will have a big impact on our ability to pick up points.


    Firstly the stats on shots are on goal are when Douglas goes one or two goals down. Recent example for you, when you were at Cardiff I can't remember a shot on goal (with any meaning) you I believe said one. When we went two down DF changed the team as we went in search to score, only then did we improve. Sometimes the stats don't reflect the game.
    Let's hope for a win my friend.


  12. #11
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    I think the steeliness will increase as the players become more familiar with one another, although as I said, I don't see that as our main weakness so far. The stat that leaps out at me is we've had the joint most shots in the penalty area and the second most shots overall, yet have only scored 4 goals. If the new signings help us to be more clinical infront of goal, or even create more chances per game, it will have a big impact on our ability to pick up points.


    So so this. how many games have these lads had with each other, never mind as a back 4? And how much have they been able to rely on front players holding the ball up so far?



    The defence as a unit is as green as our youth lads, especially when you consider DDV behind them in that equation.



    Needs much more time to solidify yet.

    Last edited by Alf-aSemedoBlueJeans&Chinos; 05-09-15 at 00:08.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Would have put my money on Mills and Hobbs as the CB pairing but after Hobbs performance against Cardiff I am not so sure. Not a big fan of Wilson since his injury and Mance can be a bit lightweight. However on current form I would go with Mance and Mills.


  14. #13
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Cortez the Killer View Post
    I think by addressing our attacking weakness - which Dougie has recently done - it should take the pressure off our defence to begin with. I think we might be okay.
    Yep. The backline have had a hell of a lot to do and when they try to play it forwards, they don't get the link-up they require.

    We can no longer divide an eleven into three tiers tactically but in practical terms those layers still exist and what one must do affects the other. We've been (badly) propping up our forward line from the middle and the back bears the brunt of it. They've brought in two strikers and two midfielders, so let's get that balance up and down the pitch before worrying about anything else. Even Fox might prosper in a team where he's got what he needs in front of him.

    Yeah, that's optimistic. Shoot me. It's been a good day squad-wise and we've time to drill them.


  15. #14
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Mills is doing the business, Hobbs and Wilson can do the business but are out of form, so I'd like to see those three battling it out for CB.

    I'm in the camp that hates to see Mance in midfield. Weirdly, I would like to see him at right back. Lichaj has been doing decent, but he does seem rash and it seems like he's hit his peak and it's not that high. Mance is quality, best tackler at the club and excellent footballing brain, I think he could be a demon at right back. I'm presuming Pinillos will grow into a good LB. Maybe if Pinillos isn't cutting the mustard then Mance at LB and carry on Lichaj.

    It's an embarrassment of riches to be fair. I think the concern is having them a solid unit, the pool is good.


    There has not been much mention that we only have De Vries and Evtimov in goal.

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  16. #15
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    We probably will see Mancienne back in central defence now anyway.


  17. #16
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    It's difficult for things to come together overnight. Mills has made a difference in defence but it's just who partners him ? Hobbs should be the one but his form has been a bit off, Wilson seems a bit past it and Mancienne has been filling in other positions and anyway there's question marks over him there too. I'd say stick with Hobbs and let the partnership grow. Pinillos is still adjusting and I'm sure Dougie would perhaps have liked a new keeper but Hamer fell through so we're stuck with de vries which is not the worst thing in the world but there's just no competition for him


  18. #17
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Not so sure Mills has made a difference. If anything , our defence looked extremely vulnerable in the air now than compared to when Lascelles was here last season.


  19. #18
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    I think currently Mills and Mancienne is our best combination at Centre Back.

    I am looking forward to seeing more of Iacovitti though. Saw him a couple of times last season and he looks to have all the tools needed.

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  20. #19
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Quote Originally Posted by marshal99 View Post
    Not so sure Mills has made a difference. If anything , our defence looked extremely vulnerable in the air now than compared to when Lascelles was here last season.
    I feel more confident with DDV than I did with Lascelles though.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscl View Post
    I think currently Mills and Mancienne is our best combination at Centre Back.

    I am looking forward to seeing more of Iacovitti though. Saw him a couple of times last season and he looks to have all the tools needed.
    Mancienne is probably the best reader of the game we have. But the one fear I have with him at CB is that he is susceptible to a big forward getting the better of him. I think he's had that issue most of his career, hence why he's always switched between CB and CM.

    I'd quite like us to pick two and stick with them though. Whilst we have some fantastic competition for the 4 CB spots, two are injury prone and on massive contracts and one doesn't seem to be fancied as a CB. Furthermore, having all 4 prevent the likes of Iacovitti/Worrall/Riera getting a chance.


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Anyone fancy three at the back? Mancienne is the ideal sweeper alongside Mills and Hobbs. Now the conundrum of where to find a place for Antonio in such a line up has gone, it's worth considering.


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Anyone fancy three at the back? Mancienne is the ideal sweeper alongside Mills and Hobbs. Now the conundrum of where to find a place for Antonio in such a line up has gone, it's worth considering.
    3-5-2?

    Henri Lansbury in the Dieter Eilts role?

    Jawohl!


  24. #23
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Anyone fancy three at the back? Mancienne is the ideal sweeper alongside Mills and Hobbs. Now the conundrum of where to find a place for Antonio in such a line up has gone, it's worth considering.
    With the players we have, it could suit us perfectly.

    But there's got to be a reason teams don't use it. I remember Joe Kinnear saying how he relished teams turning up with a 3-5-2 because it's a simple formation to break down.

    I've often played in sides that use 3-5-2 and quite enjoyed it. Although there are games where my team has conceded a great deal of possession, because the opposition play a very wide midfield 4 and work it from side to side. So if your wing-backs push on, the play it into the space for the forwards who take up wide positions. But at a professional standard, they adopt much stronger discipline and obviously plan for scenarios that the opposition may utilise.

    I definitely agree that we have the personnel that makes sense for it. I'd be very interested to hear a professional coaches opinion on it, and why we rarely see it.


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Yes there's a reason 3-5-2 fell out of favour. Hull were promoted under Bruce recently with three at the back though, although they only had one up front (sorry Bucksred), and so effectively six in midfield. They weren't pretty to watch but were very tight defensively.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: Our Defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Yes there's a reason 3-5-2 fell out of favour.
    Because you pump balls into the corner, behind the wide men, forcing them back, turning them into a back 5, allowing you to then take control of midfield.


 

 

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