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View Poll Results: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?

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  1. #19676
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    You see, due to the propensity of which Bier permeates German culture, you’re usually never more than a few meters away from somewhere that will sell you a bottle of Bier, or a Biergarten or bar.
    I do need to live in Germany at some point.


  2. # ADS
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  3. #19677
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    I can still remember some French from school and I can speak enough Thai to get around there. When we were in France a couple of years ago, whenever I tried to speak French it came out in Thai, which seems to be my default 'other language'. It led to so much confusion I didn't try to speak at all after a while.


  4. #19678
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
    I can still remember some French from school and I can speak enough Thai to get around there. When we were in France a couple of years ago, whenever I tried to speak French it came out in Thai, which seems to be my default 'other language'. It led to so much confusion I didn't try to speak at all after a while.
    Si! My default foreign is Spanish, even when I mean it to be French for example. So probably the most common thing I've ever uttered in 'forin' is "Si. Uh, I mean, uh, Oui." If "siuhimeanuhoui"was to become an intenational word my life would be much improved.

    doyen of boomer energy

  5. #19679
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Am I mistaken in seeing the irony of the sovereignty debate play out in the current 'supreme court' hearing regarding prorogation?

    Also:

    'No majority has a right to curtail the freedom of their fellow citizens unless they can justify it through some other tangible benefit in the national interest.'

    Last edited by Fitzcarraldo; 18-09-19 at 12:36.

  6. #19680
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo View Post
    Am I mistaken in seeing the irony of the sovereignty debate play out in the current 'supreme court' hearing regarding prorogation?

    Also:

    'No majority has a right to curtail the freedom of their fellow citizens unless they can justify it through some other tangible benefit in the national interest.'
    Mandarins.


  7. #19681
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Redemption View Post
    Mandarins.
    Satsumas.


  8. #19682
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Redemption View Post
    Mandarins.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
    Satsumas.
    Kumquat.


  9. #19683
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by congo_red View Post
    Kumquat.
    Rambutan.


  10. #19684
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    oh my darling.


    BTW, am I the only one disappointed that the Supreme Court judges go to work in their own clothes? I was hoping for something more robe-ish with a sci-fi twist?




  11. #19685
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    I've got a pair of those cans. Great noise isolation.


  12. #19686
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
    Germans are absolutely delighted if you try and speak at least a few words in their language. And they will not judge you if you speak it appallingly badly, as I do.

    Even down here in Baden-Württemberg, home of the at-times incomprehensible Schwäbisch dialect.

    The majority though speak passable English, and are usually happy to help you, if you’ve made the effort at least to try German.

    Berlin, due to its more cosmopolitan nature, is a little different, and you’ll find English widely spoken, especially in shops and restaurants.
    Hardly any of the old Greeks in my village speak English but most speak fluent German, from the times when they were younger and went to Germany to find work in the factories .

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk


  13. #19687
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lefkasman View Post
    Hardly any of the old Greeks in my village speak English but most speak fluent German, from the times when they were younger and went to Germany to find work in the factories .
    Bloody Immigrants!



  14. #19688
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lefkasman View Post
    Hardly any of the old Greeks in my village speak English but most speak fluent German, from the times when they were younger and went to Germany to find work in the factories .

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
    Ah, former Gastarbeiter, then?

    As some know, Germany has a massive Turkish community, and many of those are descended from the Gastarbeitern who came here in the 1950s-60s.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    — Joe Strummer

  15. #19689
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
    I've got a pair of those cans. Great noise isolation.
    You have a pair of cans?

    I always had you down as a bloke Harv. Or are you in transition?


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    The beast is stirring yet again!! :devil:

    it has nothing to do with football or NFFC

  16. #19690
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    „The Mother of Parliaments has been shut down by the Father of Lies“:

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/sta...779444736?s=20

    That is absolutely damning.


  17. #19691
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    The mother of parliaments has told democracy to fuck off.


  18. #19692
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!




  19. #19693
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by congo_red View Post
    Bloody Immigrants!



  20. #19694
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
    The mother of parliaments has told democracy to fuck off.
    A referendum isn’t democracy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


  21. #19695
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by GOD View Post
    A referendum isn’t democracy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Of course it is. It's the most pure form of it, direct democracy.

    If you want to argue that lies/mistruths taint the 2016 result then pretty much every single representative parliament we've returned for as long as I can remember isn't democracy either.

    .k I m
    I m u mm

  22. #19696
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    Of course it is. It's the most pure form of it, direct democracy.

    If you want to argue that lies/mistruths taint the 2016 result then pretty much every single representative parliament we've returned for as long as I can remember isn't democracy either.
    i disagree. this is not certain by definition

    a referendum is not democracy by definition.

    let's say we have a referendum, asking the people the following question:

    -apply 90% taxes for those with more than xxxK income?

    the answer depending on xxx will be YES with a high majority. is this democratic?


    a referendum is not direct democracy because the government proposes the question and the voters make a choice. everything depends on the question.

    take an example, of what happened in Bahamas:
    "A June 7 constitutional referendum on gender equality in the Bahamas provides another example of confusion hijacking the vote. In this conservative, Christian country, rumors spread that voting “yes” could lead to same-sex marriage, even though the issues on the ballot were only about gender equality and its role in citizenship rights. By Election Day, many were not voting on whether they supported equal rights for men and women, but whether they supported same-sex marriage and LGBT rights. Ultimately, 79 percent voted against the gender nondiscrimination bill."

    so basically it could be as you say but it's not like that by definition


  23. #19697
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Sorry, that's nonsense.

    The Oxford dictionary definition of democracy is: "A political system that allows the citizens to participate in political decision‐making."

    So a referendum is democratic.

    That some people don't like the question being posed, the campaigns undertaken or the answer returned by the populace is irrelevant.

    Specifically in relation to your question: "-apply 90% taxes for those with more than xxxK income? the answer depending on xxx will be YES with a high majority. is this democratic?"

    Yes, of course it is.

    In relation to your example about the Bahamas - so what? People everywhere vote for things for a variety of reasons often not in their best interest or at their full understanding. It doesn't make it undemocratic. There is always going to be some people who have a higher understanding than others when casting votes - are you suggesting that a vote can only be democratic if only some are allowed to cast their vote if they proven their worth?

    Last edited by MaxiRobriguez; 19-09-19 at 13:34.

  24. #19698
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    5th Century BC Athens had the purest form of democracy, where its president was selected by a random lottery.

    Let's go for that, it would be a right laugh.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


  25. #19699
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiRobriguez View Post
    Sorry, that's nonsense.

    The Oxford dictionary definition of democracy is: "A political system that allows the citizens to participate in political decision‐making."

    So a referendum is democratic.

    That some people don't like the question being posed, the campaigns undertaken or the answer returned by the populace is irrelevant.

    Specifically in relation to your question: "-apply 90% taxes for those with more than xxxK income? the answer depending on xxx will be YES with a high majority. is this democratic?"

    Yes, of course it is.

    In relation to your example about the Bahamas - so what? People everywhere vote for things for a variety of reasons often not in their best interest or at their full understanding. It doesn't make it undemocratic. There is always going to be some people who have a higher understanding than others when casting votes - are you suggesting that a vote can only be democratic if only some are allowed to cast their vote if they proven their worth?
    I think you will find Robbie that the true definition of democracy is that a democratic vote provides a democratic decision only if it gives you the result you wanted. Otherwise it has no standing whatsoever.


  26. #19700
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Democracy is not just about voting. It's a little bit more than that. However since it's nonsense I'll pass for the rest of conversation


 

 

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