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View Poll Results: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?

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  1. #19601
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheRed View Post
    Maybe I need educating, but what is the problem with more integration? Why are people so adamantly against it? I just don't get why it is seen as a bad thing, when as of right now, it is probably the best time to live in all of history due to less wars, better medical care, better education, more money...

    Don't we have Nigel Farage spouting similar bollocks on a regular basis?

    EDIT

    Just watched the video, and I have to admit RD you spun that very well. He didn't mention "European Empire" once. He said that places like China and India are effectively empires due to their size and how they are essentially countries made up from a number of states (is he wrong)? And the best way going forward is for Britain and European to be heard and shape our future is being part of the European Union. My two cents anyway...
    India is a federal state, or a collection of individual states (much, of course, as is Germany) which is what he’s kind of getting at, albeit in the usual eccentric Verhofstadt manner.

    China is sort of a federal state, but the key difference there is voters have absolutely zero choice in their government.

    Put together, you have an economic block of 2.6Bn people. And that’s an awful lot. Especially compared to the 500m of the EU today, or the 60m in the UK.

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

    — Joe Strummer

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  3. #19602
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Some of you may want more integration etc, which is fine. That is your position. My point was that not all Remainers were voting for that. I've often heard the "The EU needs reforming but..." argument from Remainers. Those people definitely dont want more integration.

    It only takes a second to score a goal.

  4. #19603
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    Default The Big BREXIT discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravi View Post
    Some of you may want more integration etc, which is fine. That is your position. My point was that not all Remainers were voting for that. I've often heard the "The EU needs reforming but..." argument from Remainers. Those people definitely dont want more integration.
    Well, you see, I come from the opposite opinion; I am of the view that the current population-integration and particularly the political systems elsewhere in the EU - such as proportional representation, as found in France and Germany, the other two member states I’ve lived in - are considerably better than the antiquated „First Past The Post“ System in the UK, which has gotten you essentially nothing more than a series of neoliberal-leaning governments for the last forty years, which has led to ever increasing British inequality, poverty, and social and political systems which are embedded with a narrow elite, and from which very few other social-economic groups benefit?

    I guess the real crux of the matter is whether you’d be willing - for example - to pay a slightly higher taxation burden, in return for better social services, better security and better equality, or whether you take the opposite view, and would rather live in a low-taxation, low-regulation economy akin to Singapore-on-Thames, as long as you yourself are alright?

    A vote for „Remain“, and possibly further European integration is indeed perhaps a vote for tighter integration with other member-states, maybe long term even joining the Schengen Zone and the Euro; whereas a vote for „Leave“, especially perhaps the hardest of no-deal exits, is instead a vote for the complete abandonment of any integration at all, and the adoption of a significantly more liberal approach to trade and finance?

    Or is there a common ground somewhere inbetween?

    Last edited by Strummer; Today at 19:20.

  5. #19604
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    Default Re: The Big BREXIT discussion!

    I'm convinced that if I asked the ex pat's here if they classed themselves as immigrants they would more than likely likely say " of course not we're British" I find it sad that some don't want to be closer to their European cousins. I find Europe a wonderful and diverse place that I enjoy being part of. It's a shame some folks have bought the line (my mother included) that them foreigners are all out to get us and take our sovereignty.

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk


 

 

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