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Thread: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

      
  1. #1

    Default Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    The standard of the second division isn't what it used to be...

    1. Nigel Spink (Aston Villa)
    2. Denis Irwin (Oldham)
    3. Andy Hinchcliffe (Man City)
    4. Martin Keown (Aston Villa)
    5. Gary Pallister (Middlesboro)
    6. Ossie Ardilies (Blackburn)
    7. Gary McAllister (Leicester)
    8. David Platt (Aston Villa)
    9. Teddy Sheringham (Millwall)
    10. Ian Wright (Crystal Palace)
    11. Steve Archibald (Blackburn)
    Subs:
    12. Earl Barrett (Oldham)
    13. Colin Hendry (Blackburn)
    14. David Batty (Leeds)
    15. Alan McInally (Aston Villa)
    16. David White (Man City)
    17. Tony Daley (Aston Villa)
    18. Lee Dixon (Stoke City)
    19. Steve Bould (Stoke City)
    20. Stuart Ripley (Middlesboro)

    Edit:
    21. Mark Bright (Crystal Palace)
    22. Tony Cascarino (Millwall)

    Last edited by Francis Benali (on loan); 11-05-15 at 11:17.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    You forget the other Earl Barrett!

    ‘This at bottom is the wish and prayer of all human hearts, everywhere and at all times: “Give me a leader, a true leader, not a false sham-leader; a true leader, that he may guide me on the true way.”’

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  4. #3

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post

    The quality of the lower leagues is better than it has ever been with the loan system - or more pertinently with the proliferation of foreign players that makes Premiership clubs willing to let their English player be loaned out. What the hell is someone of Darren Bent's pedigree doing playing in the second tier? It wouldn't have happened 10/15 years ago
    Darren Bent is better than Ian Wright, Teddy Sheringham and Steve Archibald?

    That's bonkers.


  5. #4
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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Henri Lansbury.


  6. #5

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Benali (on loan) View Post
    Darren Bent is better than Ian Wright, Teddy Sheringham and Steve Archibald?

    That's bonkers.
    I shouldn't bother, but 'pedigree' implies that someone has a proven track record. Ian Wright and Teddy Sheringham didn't have this in 1987, their careers had barely started.

    And Ian Wright was 36 when he was loaned to us in 1999 (which, being 15 years ago, was the period I was actually comparing with). Darren Bent is 31 and still in his prime.


  7. #6
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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Benali (on loan) View Post
    The standard of the second division isn't what it used to be...

    1. Nigel Spink (Aston Villa)
    2. Denis Irwin (Oldham)
    3. Andy Hinchcliffe (Man City)
    4. Martin Keown (Aston Villa)
    5. Gary Pallister (Middlesboro)
    6. Ossie Ardilies (Blackburn)
    7. Gary McAllister (Leicester)
    8. David Platt (Aston Villa)
    9. Teddy Sheringham (Millwall)
    10. Ian Wright (Crystal Palace)
    11. Steve Archibald (Blackburn)
    Subs:
    12. Earl Barrett (Oldham)
    13. Colin Hendry (Blackburn)
    14. David Batty (Leeds)
    15. Alan McInally (Aston Villa)
    16. David White (Man City)
    17. Tony Daley (Aston Villa)
    18. Lee Dixon (Stoke City)
    19. Steve Bould (Stoke City)
    20. Stuart Ripley (Middlesboro)
    Can,t think of many of today's championship players anywhere near those incredible really.


  8. #7

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Teddy Sheringham, twenty-two years old, scored 24 goals as Millwall finished top of the division (his striker partner, Tony Cascarino scored 23 and didn't make this twenty man squad).

    Ian Wright, twenty-five years old, scored 23 goals (his strike partner Mark Bright, scored 24 and didn't make this twenty man squad).

    Last edited by Francis Benali (on loan); 10-05-15 at 22:17.

  9. #8

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Benali (on loan) View Post
    Teddy Sheringham, twenty-two years old, scored 24 goals as Millwall finished top of the division (his striker partner, Tony Cascarino scored 23 and didn't make this twenty man squad).

    Ian Wright, twenty-five years old, scored 23 goals (his strike partner Mark Bright, scored 24 and didn't make this twenty man squad).
    Before the 1987/88 season, neither of these players had scored more than 15 goals in a season. They didn't have a pedigree remotely comparable to Darren Bent's when he joined Derby. Given a choice between a six-month loan of Darren Bent as he is now or the 22-year-old Ian Wright, you'd pick Bent on the basis of more than 100 top flight goals and 14 England caps, not the cocky lad from Crystal Palace with 18 goals in 80 Second Division matches.


  10. #9

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    This was the team of the season for 1987-88. Ian Wright, 25 actually, scored 23 goals that season. Teddy Sherigham, 22, scored 24 goals and they won the division. Mark Bright scored 23. Tony Cascarino scored 23. These are very good strikers scoring a lot of goals. Not youth teamers just breaking through.

    Darren Bent hadn't managed ten goals in a season for five years. Hasn't played for England for three years. Some prime.

    This debate is unbelievable.

    Last edited by Francis Benali (on loan); 10-05-15 at 22:55.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Benali (on loan) View Post
    Darren Bent hadn't managed ten goals in a season for five years. Hasn't played for England for three years. Some prime.
    That's thanks to the "proliferation of foreign players that makes Premiership clubs willing to let their English player be loaned out" I mentioned in my original post. If you don't rate Darren Bent, that's your opinion, but I think he should be playing at a higher level than being loaned to Derby. The end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Benali (on loan) View Post
    This debate is unbelievable.
    This debate is non-existent. You've selectively quoted a post I made on another thread more than three months ago, then asked a question that had nothing to do with the original post, putting words into my mouth in the process. To prove what? That Ian Wright was a better player than Darren Bent? No arguments from me, but it has nothing to do with Darren Bent's loan to Derby being an indictment of the number of foreign players in the Premier League, and even less to do with the Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88 given Darren Bent was only 4 years old at the time.

    Nope, this debate exists entirely in your mind, I'm afraid.


  12. #11

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Yeah, but Darren Bent wouldn't even make the bench.


  13. #12

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
    Can't think of many of today's championship players anywhere near those incredible really.
    It is an incredible group of players to all be be playing in the second division in the same season.

    Ardilies only played a handful of games on loan, and Archibald was on loan from Barcelona for half a season. But even if you replaced those two with any two from Daley, White, Ripley, Batty, Bright, Cascarino, you still have a brilliant team.

    I was interested because Danny Murphy was spouting some rubbish about FA Cup shocks happening more now thanks to the Premier League being much stronger. The usual 'the Premier League now is better than everything there has ever been and it makes everything else great too' pundit comment. Discounting the lack of evidence he had to actually prove that there were indeed more FA Cup shocks happening now than at any stage in the past for a moment (as that seemed to be based on nothing), the claim that the lower leagues are not as strong as they used to be seemed wrong.

    I wasn't expecting to find a bunch of players as good as those above. But, ignoring the physical superiority of players in 2015 and viewed within the context of the era in which they played, and accepting that it is difficult to compare the current players before their careers are finished, I still struggle to believe this season's Championship has that sort of quality.

    One reason for it, may be that in the 2015 team you have a lot of players who will have played over one hundred games in the Football League before stepping up to the Premier League once they were playing at that level. Second division players used to play in the second division with a team and coaches they knew until they were performing at a level that was too good for the second divsion. Then they'd move. Today most of them would have already signed for a Premier League team despite not being good enough for the Premier League. Some of them join a new team on loan every six months and have to get used to new surroundings, coaches, team mates and are expected to develop. Others don't even get a loan, and lose a season in their career to playing at all.

    Last edited by Francis Benali (on loan); 11-05-15 at 10:59.

  14. #13

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    OK, so the latest Championship team of the Year may not prove to be the best team you could put together out of this season's second division players, but worth looking at it. There are only really Alex Pritchard, and maybe Matt Ritchie you couldn't rule out at this stage going on to winning major honours consistently. I wouldn't necessarily bet on them either, but you cannot rule them out at this moment.


    1.Keiren Westwood (Sheffield Wednesday)
    2.Russell Martin (Norwich)
    3.Richard Keogh (Derby)
    4.George Friend (Middlesbrough)
    5.Simon Francis (Bournemouth)
    6.Grant Leadbitter (Middlesbrough)
    7.Matt Ritchie (Bournemouth)
    8.Bakary Sako (Wolves)
    9.Alex Pritchard (Brentford)
    10.Daryl Murphy (Ipswich)
    11.Troy Deeney (Watford)

    If you drop the older players and bring in the best young players with more potential, Bamford is an obvious one. And bring in any older players who have already won major honours. You are still are not going to find a team that will ever match the first team form 87/88. At the end of their careers the 87/88 squad had amongst them:

    1 World Cup
    3 European Cups
    4 UEFA Cups
    6 Cup Winners Cups
    1 La Liga
    1 Bundesliga
    33 Premier Leagues
    23 FA Cups

    It is for a different thread, but remember how much it cost to watch second division games involving players of that calibre.

    Last edited by Francis Benali (on loan); 11-05-15 at 11:16.

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Interesting that from that team in the OP, the more successful players were the ones bought by Man Utd and Arsenal (defenders as well).


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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    This second division is poor imo. Poorest it's been for a good few years, there's little quality, just that the team that works the hardest with a good team ethic tends to be at the top.

    It just goes to show that Forest (whoever the Chairman, manager or players are) slip straight into the mainstream of it over the years, whatever the standard.


  17. #16

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by adam09 View Post
    Interesting that from that team in the OP, the more successful players were the ones bought by Man Utd and Arsenal (defenders as well).
    The best players will inevitably end up signing for the best teams at the time. I think the major difference between then and now is those players only left the lower leagues to signed for a top team if they were good enough to.

    Pallister played 150 games for Middlesbrough and was 24 when he signed for Man Utd.
    Dixon was 24 and had played 150 games during spells at Stoke, Bury and Chester.
    Irwin had played 250 games for Leeds and Oldham and was 25 by the time he signed for Man Utd.
    Hendry played 100 games with Blackburn in the second tier and was 24 when he signed for Man City.
    Bould played nearly 200 times for Stoke was almost 26 when he signed for Arsenal.

    None of these were kids when they made their big move. They all developed into excellent defenders after playing in the lower leagues consistently with, in most cases one club, the same team mates, probably the same manager and coaches. Rather than hopping around and getting bit and pieces three month loan contracts and under 21 youth games here and there. None of these players would have had anything like as many games under their belts in their early twenties in the modern era. They would have signed for a Premier League club after showing potential in their first 30 games in professional football.

    The English system with it's four divisions and non-league has, in past, the helped to produce many excellent footballers. I think the FA do recognise this as a problem. That's partly where the B teams idea comes from - trying to guarantee regular games at their level for players like Nick Powell who show early potential, are cherry picked from the Football League, and then disappear. The FA aren't powerful enough to reverse the trend of cherry picking, and the Premier League have no interest in tackling it, so the B teams idea is Dyke's weak alternative. The problem there is that this idea craps all over the history of the Football League and most of its member clubs. If the FA turn half of England's professional football clubs into fodder for Premier League reserve teams, they're hammering a couple of nails into the coffin of the Football League. Just because Mills sits there and tells fans of clubs in the lower tiers that they want to watch their team play in Man United's reserve league, it doesn't make it true. In the long term, once they've killed off the Football League, they still won't be able to use it to develop young English players.

    There really does look like there is only one solution, and that is to stop young players signing for clubs who play above their current level. But there is nobody willing and powerful enough to do it.

    Last edited by Francis Benali (on loan); 11-05-15 at 12:47.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Sometimes for a lower-league player it was getting the opportunity to show their ability too.

    Denis Irwin only really signed for Man United after a storming display in the FA Cup for Oldham against United alerted them to him, as he completely snuffed-out United's attack down the flanks.

    "It is better to live one day as a lion, than one hundred years as a sheep"

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscl View Post
    Sometimes for a lower-league player it was getting the opportunity to show their ability too.

    Denis Irwin only really signed for Man United after a storming display in the FA Cup for Oldham against United alerted them to him, as he completely snuffed-out United's attack down the flanks.
    James Perch earned a huge living by doing a similar thing for us against Newcastle, he has never won anything but he's not bothered about that, he's a rich young man.


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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymondo Ponte' View Post
    James Perch earned a huge living by doing a similar thing for us against Newcastle, he has never won anything but he's not bothered about that, he's a rich young man.
    He is indeed Raymondo! And you're right, took the opportunity to put himself in the shop window as it were.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    I think the best example must be Arron Davies mate.

    We allowed him the freedom of the entire pitch against Yeovil in the play-off second leg at the CG.

    He looked a world beater in the Messi mould, only Forest could make somebody look a superstar.

    And then we duly went and signed him.


  22. #21
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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    And we're sadly let down with the resulting purchase.


  23. #22
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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscl View Post
    And we're sadly let down with the resulting purchase.
    Well, I never seen any superstar performances from him.

    Soon as he was marked he was nothing.


  24. #23

    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Forest tried to sign McAllister from Leicester after Webb left. I think it was the fact he wore cowboy boots to his interview and Clough made some comments about them that stopped that happening?

    Not for the purposes of commenting on any arguments, but I'll say that 87-88 second division all-star squad is pretty impressive!


  25. #24
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    Default Re: Second Division Team of the Season 1987/88

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Benali (on loan) View Post
    The standard of the second division isn't what it used to be...

    1. Nigel Spink (Aston Villa)
    2. Denis Irwin (Oldham)
    3. Andy Hinchcliffe (Man City)
    4. Martin Keown (Aston Villa)
    5. Gary Pallister (Middlesboro)
    6. Ossie Ardilies (Blackburn)
    7. Gary McAllister (Leicester)
    8. David Platt (Aston Villa)
    9. Teddy Sheringham (Millwall)
    10. Ian Wright (Crystal Palace)
    11. Steve Archibald (Blackburn)
    That is RIDIC! Among the many honours, that team includes three European Cup winners and one World Cup winner. Insane!


 

 

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