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Thread: FFP - Theoretically

      
  1. #1
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    Default FFP - Theoretically

    So come this summer, say we lose the dead weight/wages of Abdoun, Mackie, Majewski, Lascelles, Darlow and the loanees off the wage bill and sell Antonio for £8m like we could...Do you think we could then make a case for losing the embargo? The names above are examples, but if we can prove that the wage bill has been reduced dramatically and income is up no end and that we'd be under the acceptable losses, I wonder if we could come out early?

    Would you accept selling Antonio if it meant we could sign players again?


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Nope, we're over by a considerable amount so even selling players and getting rid of the deadweights in the squad would possibly only cause us to break even. BBC Radio Nottingham were discussing it after the game on Wednesday that even selling Antonio wouldn't make much of a difference. I can't remember the figures used.

    We can't make a loss of more than £3m or £6m before the end of the season iirc. Personally we should be looking to offload the deadweight and supplement the squad with youngsters from the academy and then maybe if need be, 1 or 2 loans/free transfers. Once again this season we have a massive squad and we're continuously paying the price for that as we look for the quick fix.

    Personally we should give Dougie a few seasons, unless it's going horrendously wrong to build his squad. We have the academy there and we have the potential to build something and make a real go of it next season if we can't gatecrash the play-offs this season.

    It's all well and good saying if we get rid of the deadweights as well. But so far not many clubs have expressed an interest in buying these players permanently from us and there will be a reason for this. They can't afford to pay them what we're paying.

    We need to go back to basics with our squad building and not go chasing the big players unless there's a reason to do so. Pearce put together a decent squad and brought in some good players last summer. Hopefully Freedman gets given the chance to do that as well with a few changes.


  4. #3
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin's Local View Post
    So come this summer, say we lose the dead weight/wages of Abdoun, Mackie, Majewski, Lascelles, Darlow and the loanees off the wage bill and sell Antonio for £8m like we could...Do you think we could then make a case for losing the embargo? The names above are examples, but if we can prove that the wage bill has been reduced dramatically and income is up no end and that we'd be under the acceptable losses, I wonder if we could come out early?

    Would you accept selling Antonio if it meant we could sign players again?
    Who in their right mind would pay £8m for Antonio?


  5. #4
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    I'd think you'd be surprised tbh. We paid £5.5m rising to £8m depending on what you read for Assombalonga and again we paid £500k to £3m for Antonio depending on what you read.

    There will be a Championship club or lower Prem club who will be desperate to add someone like Antonio to their ranks who can not only score goals but also create them. I don't think Antonio has had as good a season before in his career so it could be a one off. However, he's come into a so called better team than Sheffield Wednesday. If he was to move onto another so called better team he may well exceed expectations there as well.

    I still don't think we should sell though.


  6. #5
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fat Lad View Post
    I'd think you'd be surprised tbh. We paid £5.5m rising to £8m depending on what you read for Assombalonga and again we paid £500k to £3m for Antonio depending on what you read.

    There will be a Championship club or lower Prem club who will be desperate to add someone like Antonio to their ranks who can not only score goals but also create them. I don't think Antonio has had as good a season before in his career so it could be a one off. However, he's come into a so called better team than Sheffield Wednesday. If he was to move onto another so called better team he may well exceed expectations there as well.

    I still don't think we should sell though.
    Antonio for £8m would be almost as daft as £11m for McCormack. West Brom bid, what, £3m? That's more realistic although I still think we'd be better off keeping Antonio than taking the cash.

    £8m for Assombalonga is too much as well; I don't think he's worth anywhere near that. I know that the McCormack sale pushed prices up across the board but when you consider the Bournemouth paid £3m for Callum Wilson, the Assombalonga deal was too much and will cost us dearly.

    No-one will want to hear that but when cold, hard cash was on the table in January, it was nowhere near that amount.


  7. #6

    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    If QPR go down they will go to the courts about FFP and it will win. We can then sue the Championship and Football league as FFP forced us to sell Lascales and Darlow and prevented us from the possibility of signing Rhodes etc.


  8. #7
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    As clubs get more money though they become desperate. I don't think we need to change too much. Instead we should focus on a smaller nucleus of players and continue to supplement them with academy players.

    I do think in the summer we'll see some stupid bids for players. But then maybe clubs will test us if we're still under an embargo.


  9. #8
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Accepting anywhere below £5m for Antonio would be daft, anyone can see he's been one of the standout players of the league this season, and definitely the stand out player for our team.


  10. #9
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    There's a £16m gap between where we are on the last set of accounts and FFP compliance.

    Even if we let all out of contract players off the wage bill and sold Mackie, Radi, Abdoun etc and replaced them with academy players, we might make a £3m dent in that.

    Pointless selling Antonio unless the offer is ridiculous.


  11. #10
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    £16m? We 'only' lost £18m didn't we?


  12. #11
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Bottom line loss to May 31st 2014 was £22.9m on the signed off accounts.

    The day-to-day operating loss was £18.8m before transfer activities are included.


  13. #12
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jumper View Post
    There's a £16m gap between where we are on the last set of accounts and FFP compliance.

    Even if we let all out of contract players off the wage bill and sold Mackie, Radi, Abdoun etc and replaced them with academy players, we might make a £3m dent in that.

    Pointless selling Antonio unless the offer is ridiculous.
    Getting Abdoun off the books alone is worth 1.3 million a year in wages alone, plus whatever we can get for him in terms of a fee


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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by cms186 View Post
    Getting Abdoun off the books alone is worth 1.3 million a year in wages alone, plus whatever we can get for him in terms of a fee
    Fee? Good one!

    We're probably paying half his wages at the moment, so I'll budget half that as a saving next season.

    We might pick up small fees for Mackie, Radi and possibly McLaughlin if we're lucky, save wages on Kane, Halford, Collins, Harding, Gardner, Tesche and Barrow.

    Rough figures only, but I'm saying that's around £3m in total.


  15. #14
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    Accepting anywhere below £5m for Antonio would be daft, anyone can see he's been one of the standout players of the league this season, and definitely the stand out player for our team.
    I think on early season form, Antonio was one of the best if not the best producers in the league but that was whilst Forest were flying. On the balance of the whole season, the standout players have been Daryl Murphy, Grant Leadbitter and Matt Ritchie. Maybe Deeney.

    The only one of those who anyone would pay anywhere near that amount for would be Deeney.

    Maybe this would be better placed in the Antonio thread but the premise in the original post is unrealistic and I can't get over that fact.


  16. #15
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    I suggest the club works on increasing its income, rather than selling and minor cost adjustments. The club should be ambitious in their income generation plan, expand business revenues.

    Clubs in germany keep afloat charging very reasonable ticket prices through additional revenue streams.

    Hardly rocket science. Everybody knows the football side of things isnt profitable, so you have to compensate.

    In the uk i expect 90% of income comes from tv, tickets and club shop. Stay like that and we might as well settle for forever being under FFP embargo, and fawas forfeiting 2m a month to keep the club afloat.


  17. #16
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jumper View Post
    Fee? Good one!

    We're probably paying half his wages at the moment, so I'll budget half that as a saving next season.

    We might pick up small fees for Mackie, Radi and possibly McLaughlin if we're lucky, save wages on Kane, Halford, Collins, Harding, Gardner, Tesche and Barrow.

    Rough figures only, but I'm saying that's around £3m in total.
    well we were paying all his wages most of the season!

    Saying we get those players off the books and bring in a total of 750k in fees for Abdoun, Raddy and Mackie, which isnt outlandish. Id guess we are paying Abdoun 25k, Mackie, Halford, Tesche, Collins, Harding and Raddy 15k on average, Kane, Gardner, Barrow 10k and McLaughlin 5k, that will save us:

    Abdoun: 1.3 million
    Mackie, Halford, Tesche, Collins, Harding and Raddy: 4.68 million at 780k each
    Gardner, Kane and Barrow: 550k
    McLaughlin: 260k
    Possible fees: 750k

    This is ( educated ) guesswork but if we unload all those players, thats a saving of just over 7.5 million!


  18. #17
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by cms186 View Post
    well we were paying all his wages most of the season!

    Saying we get those players off the books and bring in a total of 750k in fees for Abdoun, Raddy and Mackie, which isnt outlandish. Id guess we are paying Abdoun 25k, Mackie, Halford, Tesche, Collins, Harding and Raddy 15k on average, Kane, Gardner, Barrow 10k and McLaughlin 5k, that will save us:

    Abdoun: 1.3 million
    Mackie, Halford, Tesche, Collins, Harding and Raddy: 4.68 million at 780k each
    Gardner, Kane and Barrow: 550k
    McLaughlin: 260k
    Possible fees: 750k

    This is ( educated ) guesswork but if we unload all those players, thats a saving of just over 7.5 million!
    Would need to bring in another keeper, centre half, full back and striker at least. £10k per week for a season each, let's say, that's £2m right there.


  19. #18
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    A keeper?


  20. #19
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Centre half ?


  21. #20
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by IJPS View Post
    I suggest the club works on increasing its income, rather than selling and minor cost adjustments. The club should be ambitious in their income generation plan, expand business revenues.

    Clubs in germany keep afloat charging very reasonable ticket prices through additional revenue streams.

    Hardly rocket science. Everybody knows the football side of things isnt profitable, so you have to compensate.

    In the uk i expect 90% of income comes from tv, tickets and club shop. Stay like that and we might as well settle for forever being under FFP embargo, and fawas forfeiting 2m a month to keep the club afloat.
    Yeah but as someone pointed out not too long ago, we have the infrastructure of a Kebab Shop.

    As long as the ground is council owned and we continue to subcontract the catering and club shop out I can't see the club ever increasing its income substantially.
    We are one of the best supported clubs in England and it doesn't make one dent on our finances.

    I've just accepted we are stuck in a state of limbo.

    We've made so many mistakes since Fawaz arrived that even selling our crown jewels (say Britt, Antonio and Lansbury) would do little more than buy us some time. We'd soon fall back into debt because the club is a million miles from self sustaining.


  22. #21
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTe View Post
    Would need to bring in another keeper, centre half, full back and striker at least. £10k per week for a season each, let's say, that's £2m right there.
    would we? Id be happy going into the season with DDV and Evtimov at Keeper and youth teamers taking the backup centre back role, A striker would be nice, but im not sure we could find one on a free, willing to play for 10k per week and of the quality we want, a full back would be nice.


  23. #22
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Whats to stop Fawaz setting up a company something like Alasawi Nottingham Enterprises and sponsoring the shirts for the amount lost the previous season


  24. #23
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    A keeper?
    Darlow will be gone. Most clubs have 3 keepers although their wage wouldn't need to be anything like £10k, I admit.

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDMANRED View Post
    Centre half ?
    Lascelles, Collins will be gone leaving us with Wilson, Mancienne and Hobbs. Most of the time we'll be down to one fit centre half and Fox.

    Keep up.


  25. #24
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDMANRED View Post
    Whats to stop Fawaz setting up a company something like Alasawi Nottingham Enterprises and sponsoring the shirts for the amount lost the previous season
    Financial fair play.


  26. #25
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    Default Re: FFP - Theoretically

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDMANRED View Post
    Whats to stop Fawaz setting up a company something like Alasawi Nottingham Enterprises and sponsoring the shirts for the amount lost the previous season
    Commercial income has to be at "market rates" so a shirt deal would be compared to similar clubs at our level.

    For example, the League would complain if we suddenly had a £20m a season shirt sponsorship deal from Fawaz Air Conditioning for example, as in the Championahip, that's significantly higher than anyone else (and upwards of top-end Premier Leaguw level!)

    „I believe in socialism because it seems more humanitarian, rather than every man for himself and 'I'm alright jack' and all those arsehole businessmen with all the loot. I made up my mind from viewing society from that angle. That's where I'm from and there's where I've made my decisions from. That's why I believe in socialism“

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